Thanx Gir, and thanx to Vitor for that pic.
im not sure if im doing this right
i tried fixing up the trapezius, deltoid and pec muscles. In my ref pics, when the trapezius meets the deltoid theres a kinda drop/pinch. its hard to describe but i tried to tweak that area. And from Vitors pic i can see that the trapezius is much wiper at the back of the neck so i also tried to get that going but im finding it a bit hard to get it looking right at the front/side of the neck.
these pics are different from the ones i posted earlier.
depending on what your going to use this for, id say even out the edge density to be more evenly spread across the whole model. try and clean out those tri's as they will cause pinching in a sculpting program.
Looks like your having a problem with the neck because the loops for the front and rear of the trapeziums are too far apart so your getting that meathead thing going on. The head could do with relooping, from the view it seems you could connect between the existing trapezium loops with the extra eges from the head.
Sure...
Just incase you can't read my terrible writing;
The front view : Groinal area requires 2 new connections and 2 removed for a good deformation. You really should be able to loop both edgeloops (the one illustrated and the one below [top thigh]) by selecting one edge and pressing loop. Need some attention to the shoulder area, there seem to be a few tris. Cleaning them up would help in all areas as long as your not making additional edges to quadify 'em!
The 3q view : Taking that loop from the cranium, wrapping around the ear and down through the neck to the illustrated connection point.
*Now there's an edge that makes a tri, remove that and it will help too.
Move those verts back, move the new edges back and inwards, also do this with the neighbouring edges that connect to the central portion of the deltoid. You may have to scale the poly's down at the front of the neck a bit to compensate.
given the size of your characters arms your legs need more muscle mass to them, also they could be a tad longer. actually legs need to be bigger in every direction, and the heel of the foot needs work too round and too big the heel of a human foot is flat on the bottom and curves away from the contact point at the base of the heel then slants upwards towards the ankle. also the front of a human foot is wider than the heel.
Thanx for the comments!! i think its looking a whole lot better. but of course ill let you be the judge. i'v removed all the tris and made them into quads except for the ones at the crotch which ill make into a quad when i no longer need the symmetry.
Glad you took the advice and converted everythign into quads
Why not add digits for the toe?
Also,are you using references?if so,which ones? i could link to some very useful sites whcih has great sheets for anatomy.
btw, heres a solution you could use for the groin....
that doesn't really solve a whole lot... it creates a very nasty pole so you'll get pinching in the center vert. same goes for the shoulder, there's one over there as well. if i where you make the arms simple cylinder shapes extruded from the torso (just shaped like arms) because otherwise you'll always have that ugly pinch in the shoulder. (or you could make it so that the pole will be where the collarbone would be, so it isn't really annoying.
i hope that makes sense . if not, just try adding a turbosmooth and see for yourself what will happen at iteration 2 or 3 or somewhere.
Really?it does?hmm...never really got any problems from an "L-edge-termination".
btw, dont know if adding a turbo/meshsmooth would tell you anything about pinching (atleast at what he has now) as meshsmooth always gives you a result with quads.Even tris are converted to quads
hey thanx for all the help i thought i'd model a face for it. but i have a few unwanted areas that i was hoping you guys could help fix. iv circled the areas. If you see anything else that needs fixing or a bit of work please let me know.
At this point in time im not too concerned with the proportions of the face. i can move the verts around later so i just want a good poly flow.
The jawline isn't very well defined, and fixing that up could help solve the problems there, also, the front of the ear should connect with the side of the head better. it might just be the angle but that face is looking wide too.
That said, I dont know that much about head modelling so I'll let someone with experience try a paintover
ok man on the face, your nose is way too small , also this is causing the entire face to be squish. the eyes are too close together and too low and he needs more chin definition/cheeks. also your forehead is completely flat, it should slope downwards towards the eyebrows or higher on the forehead followed by a sharp slope to the eyebrow. the nose is whats messing you up mainly tho its way too small so scale that up and increase the space between the bottom of the nose and top of the lips, add the definition to brow cheeks and chin and you should be alot better off gl with the revisions the revisions you made to the body are huge improvement keep working on it!
i fixed the circled problems, just needed a goodnights sleep to clear my head lol. and im now using ref pics of myself. kinda like a self portrait model. i dont think it looks anything like me yet but that could be because it's not textured.
hey man, use reference and study it , not modeling in ortho and hoping that placing the verts in the same place as the image gives you a good result. Also model in perspective, since orthos have no perspective good luck !
ah thanx guys. modeling this part in the perspective VP is helping alot. for a ref now i decided to turn on my webcam, since theres no mirror in the room. seems to be working pretty good. i think i'll have to start adding some hair aswell
His hips don't actually support his legs properly now.
Giraffe have shorter necks. As someone builds up their neck muscles their necks don't actually grow in height, they just get thicker. The underlying spine never changes just whats attached to it.
oh yeah, i just posted this in another thread for some dude asking about topology help, figured you might find it useful too.
Here you have a pretty decent topology on the head, if you try and recreate this ,and then match the volumes and structure to your reference image, you should have a good start, keep it up dude!
thats the difficult part, to try and keep things quads AND have a good flow that model does it pretty good. should be a good start for anyone wanting to start learning
Yeah but if its a BASE mesh, you dont really need those loops. Would be a waste to spend energy on making the flow right when youre going to overlay it with another geometry later :P
i always wonder why this image is beeing digged up every time it comes to topology, this is neither good topology for sculpting nor for animation, the polys are way to unevenly distributed, it has an uneven amount of loops on the upper sides of eyes and mouth compared to the lower sides, it has a lot of triangles and poles in areas with deformation and lacks of loops in animatable areas such as the forhead, and it's rather useless for a lowpoly topology too.
So where is it a good topology to start with for anything, he is even saying in this picture that this is just a test to get a better topology and that things are "not placed too well".
While i like some of the basic loops, the overall distribution is just a mess and will bite you while sculpting or animating that thing.
but for sculpting i prefer either arshlevons good old basemesh or as i just switched the Baseman from Mudbox 2 is a great base for any humanoid character
well, personally, i think posting that topology has to do more with the "regions" rather than the polygonal distribution. Just shows one of the possibilities for edge flow with those regions in mind. regions as in that ring around the eye, or the one which goes around the lips and upto the nose (could have been terminated righ about the nose tho) etc.
Or do you think the regions are bullocks too neox?(honest question)
for sculpting you just need a very well distributed mesh with no stretched polygons as they will destroy your work everytime they can, what do you need a "region" like the one on the forehead on the before posted topology for? You'll have to subdivide it quite a lot if you want to play with the forms and for animation it wouldn't work either unevenly distributes polys are as poles a pain in the ass to work with, as they always tend to deform poorly. Sure if you want to model in details such as wrinkles you'll need to have some polys that are smaller then others, especially when it comes to stylized characters, but those are small details, i'm talking about big areas with totally stretched quads, never had good experiences with such things.
you'll always have regions with more details but to me it is about how you balance those out, i wouldn't recommend the jump from fine details to large stretched areas without having some relaxed polys to balance the flow
@ Vig:
yeh i'v noticed that too about the muscles not flowing one to another but i dont know how i can fix it and still keep a good shape. Also, thanx for pointing out the legs problem ill fix that.
and @ everyone else:
i do try to keep regions in mind when working on the poly flow as you can see in this pic. lol i have seen that pic a lot Johnny but thanx for posting it anyway. and Neox that's a good pic that shows the poly distribution but i think my model is too low poly to be able to adapt
hey everyone, i started working on my model again. im now using the base mesh to try and model myself as a character for Jedi Knight Academy. im going for a more casual look rather than model myself as a jedi.
Even though iv just started texturing, one problem iv run into is clothing folds. i can never seem to get them right. can someone help me out please? also please give C & C on anything else you see. Thanks.
Replies
im not sure if im doing this right
i tried fixing up the trapezius, deltoid and pec muscles. In my ref pics, when the trapezius meets the deltoid theres a kinda drop/pinch. its hard to describe but i tried to tweak that area. And from Vitors pic i can see that the trapezius is much wiper at the back of the neck so i also tried to get that going but im finding it a bit hard to get it looking right at the front/side of the neck.
these pics are different from the ones i posted earlier.
Just incase you can't read my terrible writing;
The front view : Groinal area requires 2 new connections and 2 removed for a good deformation. You really should be able to loop both edgeloops (the one illustrated and the one below [top thigh]) by selecting one edge and pressing loop. Need some attention to the shoulder area, there seem to be a few tris. Cleaning them up would help in all areas as long as your not making additional edges to quadify 'em!
The 3q view : Taking that loop from the cranium, wrapping around the ear and down through the neck to the illustrated connection point.
*Now there's an edge that makes a tri, remove that and it will help too.
Move those verts back, move the new edges back and inwards, also do this with the neighbouring edges that connect to the central portion of the deltoid. You may have to scale the poly's down at the front of the neck a bit to compensate.
Glad you took the advice and converted everythign into quads
Why not add digits for the toe?
Also,are you using references?if so,which ones? i could link to some very useful sites whcih has great sheets for anatomy.
btw, heres a solution you could use for the groin....
i hope that makes sense
btw, dont know if adding a turbo/meshsmooth would tell you anything about pinching (atleast at what he has now) as meshsmooth always gives you a result with quads.Even tris are converted to quads
At this point in time im not too concerned with the proportions of the face. i can move the verts around later so i just want a good poly flow.
That said, I dont know that much about head modelling so I'll let someone with experience try a paintover
-Woog
look at the structure and volume of the head and recreate that on your model instead of tracing the image blindly.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7769526@N08/1281971259/sizes/o/
If the ref was to bring his legs together the gap would disappear.
Zero account for the Droit Extreme (inner leg "groin" muscle), and zero account for the package...
His hips don't actually support his legs properly now.
Giraffe have shorter necks. As someone builds up their neck muscles their necks don't actually grow in height, they just get thicker. The underlying spine never changes just whats attached to it.
The Pecs aren't really flowing into the arms that well.
http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/franco-columbo.jpg
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/affiliate_image001.jpg
http://www.physioweb.org/IMAGES/chest_muscle.jpg
http://images.inmagine.com/img/photoalto/paa051/paa051000036.jpg
His arm muscles are compartmentalized and don't really flow one into the other.
You can never be gay enough when doing male anatomy searches...
I try to live by this in all aspects of my life.
Here you have a pretty decent topology on the head, if you try and recreate this ,and then match the volumes and structure to your reference image, you should have a good start, keep it up dude!
sure you wont need all those loops in there, but it shows you a good flow, add or remove as you need, but the fundamental flow is good.
but yeah, thats a pretty sick ass flow
i always wonder why this image is beeing digged up every time it comes to topology, this is neither good topology for sculpting nor for animation, the polys are way to unevenly distributed, it has an uneven amount of loops on the upper sides of eyes and mouth compared to the lower sides, it has a lot of triangles and poles in areas with deformation and lacks of loops in animatable areas such as the forhead, and it's rather useless for a lowpoly topology too.
So where is it a good topology to start with for anything, he is even saying in this picture that this is just a test to get a better topology and that things are "not placed too well".
While i like some of the basic loops, the overall distribution is just a mess and will bite you while sculpting or animating that thing.
http://www.thomasmahler.com/files/basemeshes_02.zip
but for sculpting i prefer either arshlevons good old basemesh or as i just switched the Baseman from Mudbox 2 is a great base for any humanoid character
Or do you think the regions are bullocks too neox?(honest question)
you'll always have regions with more details but to me it is about how you balance those out, i wouldn't recommend the jump from fine details to large stretched areas without having some relaxed polys to balance the flow
yeh i'v noticed that too about the muscles not flowing one to another but i dont know how i can fix it and still keep a good shape. Also, thanx for pointing out the legs problem ill fix that.
and @ everyone else:
i do try to keep regions in mind when working on the poly flow as you can see in this pic. lol i have seen that pic a lot Johnny but thanx for posting it anyway. and Neox that's a good pic that shows the poly distribution but i think my model is too low poly to be able to adapt
Even though iv just started texturing, one problem iv run into is clothing folds. i can never seem to get them right. can someone help me out please? also please give C & C on anything else you see. Thanks.