OK, I just watched that, even found it kind of interesting. I do not know politics, at all! Honestly, and I do not know if this is good or bad, but I could not tell you which is right or left side, who is republican and who is democrat. But after watching that, I read the transcript, and saw the 300 billion TARP Program.
Well after reading the first paragraph, I just kind of thought...They created a new office, staffed it, made it law, then gave them 350 Billion to dump into an insurance company? Now if the owners of this insurance company really do not care about me and you, why would they pass the bucks down? I would put those dollars right into my pockets...I mean, really?! That is A LOT of money!
My question is this, where did that money come from? I mean did the Treasury literally just print out the money, cut it up, wrap it and send it? Because the just does not make sense for the few dollars that I have in my bank. Supply & demand, or does that not apply here? I am also not sure how the currency system is based? Is it based on Gold? Based against something else? Either way printing more money does not seem like it would work?
If I get a response to this great, if not I understand...Hah!
The money for TARP comes from loans most of it from other countries like China. The government is spending money it doesn't have in hopes that the future US will figure out a way to pay for it. They've been doing it for years.
When you hear people talk about the deficit that's what it means, the government has borrowed more then it actually has and is banking on you and I to keep making money so we can keep paying taxes so they can keep making payments. I'm not really sure how they expect that to happen when they ship jobs and companies overseas...
Some of the problem that we're in now is that people could make a loan, and claim not only the cost of the loan but its interest as actual money they had even if the loan was not paid back yet. So they loan 1k to someone, that turns into 3k with interest and they can then turn around and make 3 more 1k loans and so on. Suddenly you have a mountain of debt that people are claiming as actual cash to acquire more cash and create more debt.
The sad thing is that during the last boom we almost paid it off (by slashing military spending). We can do it again but this time the mountain is much larger and we keep adding to it. End the wars, balance the budget and pay off our debts and things will get better? Hopefully...
As long as those people keep making payments things are fine, when it stops the system deflates. Its a basic problem that is rooted in how America does business. I dont see it changing unless it completely deflates and things get really bad.
It also doesn't help that America in an effort to "create allies" has loaned obscene amounts of money to countries that can't start to pay those loans back, in effect enslaving them to the US and its policies. On rare occasions the US has forgiven some of that debt but not enough to free those nations. So it only makes our deficit worse, but it does allow them to keep making payments instead of out right defaulting. So America can continue to claim part of that debt as actual cash.
So the same practices that plaugue the financial sector also plaugue our government and we're looking to the government to bail them out... using the same practices. I don't see how continuing to let the blind lead the blind will lead anyone through the mine field. But hopefully if they throw enough bodies at the mine field someday it will be cleared...
This has been a long time coming and hopefully they've run out of things to inflate and things will get back to being reasonable and stable, but don't count on it happening any time soon.
Quokimbo - those are some good questions. I believe our currency was attached to a gold standard until about 1970, when Nixon removed it. It then became what is called a "Fiat Currency", which means a currency based on nothing, except maybe our reputation. Essentially, printed out of thin air. What is also rather interesting is that basically every Fiat Currency in history has collapsed. Our fiat currency has lost approximately 90% of it's value since it's inception in 1913. Any guesses on what might happen to the remaining 10% as we head into these very treacherous financial times? (Amero anyone?) Here's a couple links that are quite informative........
It get's even more interesting when you find out that The Federal Reserve is in fact, a privately owned, multinational corporation, that is not accountable to anyone. Not us. Not our government. (" He who makes the laws, is of no concern to he who controls the money" - quote from one of the Rothschild banking elites) It's also interesting to explore which elite groups/family dynasties own/control the Federal Reserve, and what other roles they have in other aspects of our government.
And then when you start learning about the attempted military coup here in the United States in 1934 and who was involved in that, things start to get even more interesting.......
Forgive me for going a little off topic here........I've found learning about the last 100 years of American history that our schools and our media are not allowed to tell us about quite fascinating.
Actually seems to explain alot about what's going on now.
The whole "borrow money from China" thing is a perfect example of our scare media at work. Japan has lent us by far the most money with China coming into a distance 2nd.
I have heard of that, and read on it a bit. The Amero is attached to the North American Union right? They kind of go hand-in-hand right? One nation, one dollar, all that goodness?
I will look at those links in the morning, as I have to get back to fallout 3
The whole "borrow money from China" thing is a perfect example of our scare media at work. Japan has lent us by far the most money with China coming into a distance 2nd.
Just thought I'd throw that in there.
O rly? Would you consider the United States Department of Treasury and Census Bureau to both be part of the "scare media," as you put it? As far as foreign holdings of US Treasury securities, China and Japan are about dead even (when you include Hong Kong, which is listed separately). The thing is, Japan is a bit more friendly... for example, they don't do things like execute political prisoners and sell their organs... they don't consider human rights to be a quaint idea.
When you also take into consideration our trade deficit, almost four times as much money is being siphoned off to China than to Japan, which puts China far ahead in the running of "which country 'owns' America" (a cumulative -195 vs -56 billion $ in trade). Anytime you shop at a major retail store, you're putting American dollars into China's pocket. Then there's corporate securities and stocks, which are also bought by foreign interests... I think something like 20+% of US business is foreign owned. I couldn't find any data on how it breaks down by country (I couldn't be bothered to search for more than a couple minutes), but I wouldn't be surprised to see China at the top of the list.
I don't mean to sound xenophobic. I'm not well versed in economics, and I don't know what the long-term implications of this data would be, but it seems to me that we're doing the exact opposite of what we did during the industrial revolution, which turned us into a super power. We're a bunch of consumer whores... foreign countries are buying up our resources, turning them into manufactured goods, and then selling them back to us at a profit while we dig ourselves further into debt.
O rly? Would you consider the United States Department of Treasury and Census Bureau to both be part of the "scare media," as you put it? As far as foreign holdings of US Treasury securities, China and Japan are about dead even (when you include Hong Kong, which is listed separately). The thing is, Japan is a bit more friendly... for example, they don't do things like execute political prisoners and sell their organs... they don't consider human rights to be a quaint idea.
When you also take into consideration our trade deficit, almost four times as much money is being siphoned off to China than to Japan, which puts China far ahead in the running of "which country 'owns' America" (a cumulative -195 vs -56 billion $ in trade). Anytime you shop at a major retail store, you're putting American dollars into China's pocket. Then there's corporate securities and stocks, which are also bought by foreign interests... I think something like 20+% of US business is foreign owned. I couldn't find any data on how it breaks down by country (I couldn't be bothered to search for more than a couple minutes), but I wouldn't be surprised to see China at the top of the list.
I don't mean to sound xenophobic. I'm not well versed in economics, and I don't know what the long-term implications of this data would be, but it seems to me that we're doing the exact opposite of what we did during the industrial revolution, which turned us into a super power. We're a bunch of consumer whores... foreign countries are buying up our resources, turning them into manufactured goods, and then selling them back to us at a profit while we dig ourselves further into debt.
Now if only every single US citizen could say the same (or if you could ask for half a trillion a year raise), we might be able to offset our trade deficit with China .
What was your point, exactly? You said that China was a "distant second" in ownership of US debt, which just isn't true.
My point is that probably 90% of this board and 99% of most people don't even know that Japan has lent us more money than China up until last month. Of course, you have been hearing all this madness all over the news for years about how China owns America, but of course they didn't mention a damn thing about Japan owning more than China because it wouldn't be scary and spooky. It bugs me to hear people post irrational things instead of discussing it in a logical manner. It seems all I ever hear is, "the US has fucked up for the past 30 years because of this and that and Ron Paul said this and I got my economics degree from the back of a fucking cereal box."
Also, two months ago China was behind by $75 billion dollars. Isn't that a distant second? Since when is that an insignificant number? It seems people aren't even phased by a number anymore unless it has "billion" next to it.
"the US has fucked up for the past 30 years because of this and that and Ron Paul said this and I got my economics degree from the back of a fucking cereal box."
Also, two months ago China was behind by $75 billion dollars. Isn't that a distant second?
The PRC includes Hong Kong (which is listed separately), so it was actually only a $14 billion difference. Japan bought 22.1% of the treasury securities sold that month ($593.4 billion), and China bought 21.6% ($518.7 billion for mainland China + $60.6 billion for Hong Kong). So buying 0.5% less than Japan qualifies as a distant second? Yeah, okay :rolleyes:.
And just because Japan buys as much or more of our treasury securities doesn't offset the fact that China is one of the world's largest human rights violators. It's like a Senator claiming it's okay to accept campaign contributions from Charles Manson as long as he also accepts even more money from Bill Gates. "Typical 'scare media,' only focusing on the $100,000 I borrowed from Charles Manson and not even mentioning the $100,500 I borrowed from Bill Gates. They're so irrational." It also doesn't offset the fact that running a huge deficit is harmful to our prosperity, regardless of whom we're borrowing the money from.
Replies
Well after reading the first paragraph, I just kind of thought...They created a new office, staffed it, made it law, then gave them 350 Billion to dump into an insurance company? Now if the owners of this insurance company really do not care about me and you, why would they pass the bucks down? I would put those dollars right into my pockets...I mean, really?! That is A LOT of money!
Other finds on this - http://www.housingwire.com/2008/10/14/treasury-rolls-out-250-billion-capital-purchase-plan/
My question is this, where did that money come from? I mean did the Treasury literally just print out the money, cut it up, wrap it and send it? Because the just does not make sense for the few dollars that I have in my bank. Supply & demand, or does that not apply here? I am also not sure how the currency system is based? Is it based on Gold? Based against something else? Either way printing more money does not seem like it would work?
If I get a response to this great, if not I understand...Hah!
:thumbup:
When you hear people talk about the deficit that's what it means, the government has borrowed more then it actually has and is banking on you and I to keep making money so we can keep paying taxes so they can keep making payments. I'm not really sure how they expect that to happen when they ship jobs and companies overseas...
Some of the problem that we're in now is that people could make a loan, and claim not only the cost of the loan but its interest as actual money they had even if the loan was not paid back yet. So they loan 1k to someone, that turns into 3k with interest and they can then turn around and make 3 more 1k loans and so on. Suddenly you have a mountain of debt that people are claiming as actual cash to acquire more cash and create more debt.
The sad thing is that during the last boom we almost paid it off (by slashing military spending). We can do it again but this time the mountain is much larger and we keep adding to it. End the wars, balance the budget and pay off our debts and things will get better? Hopefully...
As long as those people keep making payments things are fine, when it stops the system deflates. Its a basic problem that is rooted in how America does business. I dont see it changing unless it completely deflates and things get really bad.
It also doesn't help that America in an effort to "create allies" has loaned obscene amounts of money to countries that can't start to pay those loans back, in effect enslaving them to the US and its policies. On rare occasions the US has forgiven some of that debt but not enough to free those nations. So it only makes our deficit worse, but it does allow them to keep making payments instead of out right defaulting. So America can continue to claim part of that debt as actual cash.
So the same practices that plaugue the financial sector also plaugue our government and we're looking to the government to bail them out... using the same practices. I don't see how continuing to let the blind lead the blind will lead anyone through the mine field. But hopefully if they throw enough bodies at the mine field someday it will be cleared...
This has been a long time coming and hopefully they've run out of things to inflate and things will get back to being reasonable and stable, but don't count on it happening any time soon.
Fiat Currency 101 - http://dailyreckoning.com/rpt/fiathistoryWP.html
"Fiat Empire" - [ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531[/ame]
It get's even more interesting when you find out that The Federal Reserve is in fact, a privately owned, multinational corporation, that is not accountable to anyone. Not us. Not our government. (" He who makes the laws, is of no concern to he who controls the money" - quote from one of the Rothschild banking elites) It's also interesting to explore which elite groups/family dynasties own/control the Federal Reserve, and what other roles they have in other aspects of our government.
"History Of The Federal Reserve" - http://political-resources.com/fedres/index.htm
another good book - [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Fed-Murray-Rothbard/dp/094546617X[/ame]
And then when you start learning about the attempted military coup here in the United States in 1934 and who was involved in that, things start to get even more interesting.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
The plot was foiled by one of the greatest american heros you will never hear about, Smedley Butler.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
He wrote a pretty good book as well......http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Forgive me for going a little off topic here........I've found learning about the last 100 years of American history that our schools and our media are not allowed to tell us about quite fascinating.
Actually seems to explain alot about what's going on now.
Just thought I'd throw that in there.
I have heard of that, and read on it a bit. The Amero is attached to the North American Union right? They kind of go hand-in-hand right? One nation, one dollar, all that goodness?
I will look at those links in the morning, as I have to get back to fallout 3
O rly? Would you consider the United States Department of Treasury and Census Bureau to both be part of the "scare media," as you put it? As far as foreign holdings of US Treasury securities, China and Japan are about dead even (when you include Hong Kong, which is listed separately). The thing is, Japan is a bit more friendly... for example, they don't do things like execute political prisoners and sell their organs... they don't consider human rights to be a quaint idea.
When you also take into consideration our trade deficit, almost four times as much money is being siphoned off to China than to Japan, which puts China far ahead in the running of "which country 'owns' America" (a cumulative -195 vs -56 billion $ in trade). Anytime you shop at a major retail store, you're putting American dollars into China's pocket. Then there's corporate securities and stocks, which are also bought by foreign interests... I think something like 20+% of US business is foreign owned. I couldn't find any data on how it breaks down by country (I couldn't be bothered to search for more than a couple minutes), but I wouldn't be surprised to see China at the top of the list.
I don't mean to sound xenophobic. I'm not well versed in economics, and I don't know what the long-term implications of this data would be, but it seems to me that we're doing the exact opposite of what we did during the industrial revolution, which turned us into a super power. We're a bunch of consumer whores... foreign countries are buying up our resources, turning them into manufactured goods, and then selling them back to us at a profit while we dig ourselves further into debt.
http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aFQwLGTYEM3Y&refer=home
It appears they passed up Japan... last month.
Regardless, people have been saying China owns us for years. My point still stands.
Also, please stop making up ridiculous theories when you, as you put it yourself, are not well versed in economics. It's part of the problem.
What was your point, exactly? You said that China was a "distant second" in ownership of US debt, which just isn't true.
Now if only every single US citizen could say the same (or if you could ask for half a trillion a year raise), we might be able to offset our trade deficit with China
My point is that probably 90% of this board and 99% of most people don't even know that Japan has lent us more money than China up until last month. Of course, you have been hearing all this madness all over the news for years about how China owns America, but of course they didn't mention a damn thing about Japan owning more than China because it wouldn't be scary and spooky. It bugs me to hear people post irrational things instead of discussing it in a logical manner. It seems all I ever hear is, "the US has fucked up for the past 30 years because of this and that and Ron Paul said this and I got my economics degree from the back of a fucking cereal box."
Also, two months ago China was behind by $75 billion dollars. Isn't that a distant second? Since when is that an insignificant number? It seems people aren't even phased by a number anymore unless it has "billion" next to it.
sonic that made my day. thanks
We'll need a crack team of ex-Wall St'ers to get us out of this mess...
we shall call them, WOVERINES!
The PRC includes Hong Kong (which is listed separately), so it was actually only a $14 billion difference. Japan bought 22.1% of the treasury securities sold that month ($593.4 billion), and China bought 21.6% ($518.7 billion for mainland China + $60.6 billion for Hong Kong). So buying 0.5% less than Japan qualifies as a distant second? Yeah, okay :rolleyes:.
And just because Japan buys as much or more of our treasury securities doesn't offset the fact that China is one of the world's largest human rights violators. It's like a Senator claiming it's okay to accept campaign contributions from Charles Manson as long as he also accepts even more money from Bill Gates. "Typical 'scare media,' only focusing on the $100,000 I borrowed from Charles Manson and not even mentioning the $100,500 I borrowed from Bill Gates. They're so irrational." It also doesn't offset the fact that running a huge deficit is harmful to our prosperity, regardless of whom we're borrowing the money from.