Lets hope that at least some of XSI's innovations end up in max and maya.. I have layed out far too much cash on max to start looking at other apps so this doesn't bother me but I really wish max would come out with a decent version worth upgrading to. I checked out the max 09 trial and can't see why I should fork out for the upgrade from 9. Who knows, we may get lucky and get a more usefull new version next time....
Hmm. Why do I get the feeling we should be raising some aintitrust law flags soon?
I can't help but think this is anti-competitive in a sense, and certainly seems to lead to a more consumer hostile market. Sure, we're not talking Google-Yahoo-Microsoft scale here, but still..
we dropped Foundation because it would have been close to impossible to decouple ICE from the Foundation sku (and would have been a drain on development, as well as expensive). We gave a great upgrade deal so that people had an option to get onto Essentials.
That's not how the users felt. They felt like they were being held at ransom, being given 30 days to come up with a grand, or be thrown to the wolves. :poly142:
That's not how the users felt. They felt like they were being held at ransom, being given 30 days to come up with a grand, or be thrown to the wolves. :poly142:
on the other hand, it's not like you're suddenly out of fashion by not upgrading to the very latest version. foundation price never seemed sustainable to me either. i evaluated it and would have bought it if i'd liked the app but it seemed like a special offer without much of a future of it's own indeed to me.
What's the situation with Lightwave currently? Is it really slowly dying or are they planning something in their rebel base to destroy the Autodesk Deathstar lurking in the depths of space just after zapping XSI to cinders...
Yeah, assuming max user's are going to get CAT for free (a $1000 plugin), that's pretty cool. I really don't have a problem with Autodesk, I read in Forbes or something that they were one of the top ten companies in employee satisfaction, and I have stock in them as well.
Sure there are things about max I would change, but then again, EVERY piece of software or game ever made has the potential to be better, and it's easy to chalk it up to laziness on the developer's part. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, and even the Softimage guy said something along the lines that they were working too hard for too long in their current position, and hoped that they could see greater funding at Autodesk.
I hope in the future we'll have one standard. Kinda sucks having to learn all these different packages. I think Autodesk is doing the necessary evil for the better of us all. =P
I hope in the future we'll have one standard. Kinda sucks having to learn all these different packages. I think Autodesk is doing the necessary evil for the better of us all. =P
yeah one standard that everyone hates equally with no choice, thats fucking brilliant. Because you know, everyone works exactly the same.
Oh come on guys...he didn't say which one would be the standard. He's just saying if Autodesk focused their attention only on *newly acquired software*...the industry would be a better place. :P
Not too sure what to think of this one... making me really wounder what language to focus on learning for scripting. I'd love to think Autodesk has some sort of plan but lately I'm stating to question it.
hahaa brilliant video! I was laughing so loudly at work people started asking what its all about, unfortunately they dont know 3D so the joke is lost :P
Autodesk having all 3 main biggest 3d software packages will kill all the new things comming on the market, they wont be able to get the high quality that Alias and Softimage were making their softwares because there was a war going on, and now, an internal war? Does this sincerely will work? Anyway, who ever asked if Maya went updating since Autodesk bought it, its not so true, it went slow, and still is... maybe because they have both and they dont need to change so much? Maybe now the solution is to have faith on Blender
I think that now Max, Maya and XSI will suffer a bit. But who knows what Autodesk have in mind.
Not too sure what to think of this one... making me really wounder what language to focus on learning for scripting. I'd love to think Autodesk has some sort of plan but lately I'm stating to question it.
Take your pick. For scripting, XSI supports Python, VBScript, JScript (which is similar to JavaScript) and PerlScript. Jscript would be the most comfortable for Maya users familiar with MEL.
For all those who say 'autodesk development is slow, maybe we should look towards Blender': while it's fast becoming an impressive all-around package, you can't claim it develops faster than max/maya/xsi, not with a straight face. They do a good job, but for years now they've heard the complaints about the interface and workflow and done nothing. They cater to the converted, no those of us who come from other software. They still haven't added a way to change shortcuts, short of using an uncomfortable hack.
I follow Blender closely, but it's not looking like it'll convince me anytime soon, I'm afraid.
Modo's an option, but I haven't really used it enough to be able to tell (and I'm not paying for a demo)
maybe we should look towards Blender': while it's fast becoming an impressive all-around package, you can't claim it develops faster than max/maya/xsi, not with a straight face. They do a good job, but for years now they've heard the complaints about the interface and workflow and done nothing. They cater to the converted, no those of us who come from other software. They still haven't added a way to change shortcuts, short of using an uncomfortable hack.
I follow Blender closely, but it's not looking like it'll convince me anytime soon, I'm afraid.
You can't follow it very closely, or you'd know that the 2.50 will have definable shortcuts and a new interface, and that they have been releasing new versions every 2 months with several new features each.
The opposite of what you claim.
The current 2.48 interface is different from the old ones, as it has most of the commands in the menus now, so you don't have to memorize hotkeys.
I used to hate Blender with a passion. But it's different now. It's not what is was back in the 2.2 and 2.3 days.
you can't compare blender's development cycle to autodesk. for one they do it on their free time and blender has improved greatly when compared to 3ds max. The same can be said for maya and XSI before autodesk bought them out. I think xsi was the fastest to improve based on customer complaints, every version made a big improvement especially if you compare it to max.
I guess now XSI will have a compass, to make the program soo much better than it was and it will get some awesome pelt mapping. This is soo exciting I want to take a dump.
Blender is great. I love it and use it all the time. Of course, I didn't always love it. It used to be that I just liked it. Blender has come a long, long way over the past five years.
Most people who get into Blender end up really liking and regularly using the program. If you do actually memorize most of the default controls, the workflow is easily comparable in speed to just about any major 3D package. The learning curve is steep, but the rewards are usually well worth it.
But let's not delude ourselves. The #1 reason for liking and using Blender isn't how well it compares to the major 3D packages. All three of the big 3D packages have more robust feature sets than Blender. And its not the ease of use. Everyone knows that Blender is not an immediately intuitive software package. It's interface is not easy to grasp right off, and is vastly different from what most 3D packages present.
No, the most appealing thing about Blender will always be that its FREE. You don't have to drop mad cash on it. It doesn't have cheaper educational licenses. And it won't expire after 30 days. And unlike some commercial apps that are made free-to-use, it gets regular updates. (most apps have their support dry up after going the free-to-use route) Blender will always have a following because it persists in not charging for the software or the accompanying updates. In an industry that regularly charges $1000+ for single-user licenses, that counts for something.
I guess now XSI will have a compass, to make the program soo much better than it was and it will get some awesome pelt mapping. This is soo exciting I want to take a dump.
No thanks. I already know which way is Z.
Also, XSI has pelt mapping, remember? When Autodesk made a big deal about Max getting pelt mapping to convince users to upgrade. We got a free plugin soon after. Not that it's needed. Unique UV's and Relax do rather well.
Blender is great. I love it and use it all the time. Of course, I didn't always love it. It used to be that I just liked it. Blender has come a long, long way over the past five years.
Most people who get into Blender end up really liking and regularly using the program. If you do actually memorize most of the default controls, the workflow is easily comparable in speed to just about any major 3D package. The learning curve is steep, but the rewards are usually well worth it.
But let's not delude ourselves. The #1 reason for liking and using Blender isn't how well it compares to the major 3D packages. All three of the big 3D packages have more robust feature sets than Blender. And its not the ease of use. Everyone knows that Blender is not an immediately intuitive software package. It's interface is not easy to grasp right off, and is vastly different from what most 3D packages present.
No, the most appealing thing about Blender will always be that its FREE. You don't have to drop mad cash on it. It doesn't have cheaper educational licenses. And it won't expire after 30 days. And unlike some commercial apps that are made free-to-use, it gets regular updates. (most apps have their support dry up after going the free-to-use route) Blender will always have a following because it persists in not charging for the software or the accompanying updates. In an industry that regularly charges $1000+ for single-user licenses, that counts for something.
At least you get it. Well put.
Daaaaark: I do follow it closely. I know about every version's new features, and the recent game-centric release was pretty cool, but until shortcuts can be changed (and I knew about 2.50, but that's been 'coming soon' since two years ago. Only now are we actually getting close to getting it done) it's ultimately pointless for anyone who didn't start with Blender, and who wants to apply the knowledge he got in another program to Blender.
Now, enough rabid defense of your program. I pointed out flaws, as I do with Max, Silo and every other program I ever use.
Blender will always have a following because it persists in not charging for the software or the accompanying updates. In an industry that regularly charges $1000+ for single-user licenses, that counts for something.
Right, just don't expect it to take over the industry or even come close to being decent competition. The reasons it even shows up on the radar now is because most of the decent competition has been nom'ed.
Blender is the really skinny kid in the corner that doesn't realize the monster who just gobbled up all the fat kids, isn't coming for it...
Now, enough rabid defense of your program. I pointed out flaws, as I do with Max, Silo and every other program I ever use.
:poly142: I'm no Blender Defender. I was simply trying to clear up misinformation. I attack Blender all the time, and even told one of the Elephants Dream animators that he was in no uncertain terms, an idiot, and all his posts were worthless. But much like me, a lot of people dismiss Blender in 2008 for what it was when they tried it in earlier years. They have really gone a long way towards filling the community with documentation, training videos, and making it very easy to find what you are looking for in the interface with tooltips, and popup menus that list the hotkeys (and can be clicked anyways).
I've used Max, lots of other smaller 3d apps, and Blender. My workflow has been the same in all 3 of them, and any knowledge transfers across seamlessly. Polygons are polygons. An extrusion is an extrusion, no matter what program you are using. (Unless you use TrueSpace, then it's a sweep, and a **** ed up one at that! And you get ten different stories from ten different devs on why it doesn't work right, and then finally you get a PM @ 3am by a frustrated dev who's all like.. "what's this extrude thing you speak of?" :poly124:)
As much as I like Blender I often find some of its features somewhat lacking, and feel envious of more focused commercial applications.
For instance, I've often found the sculpting tools in Blender too constricting. I really like that they added the features, and the sculpture tool itself is great. But the Multi-Res system that allows you to sculpt models at different subdivision levels is a tad restrictive. Once you've applied it, you are stuck with the base model as it is. I've recently downloaded the 30-day trial version of Silo 3D, and I'm seriously considering purchasing a license. It's sculpting tools are quite nice, and perform better on my system than Blender's do. And I adore the ability to go back and make changes to the base mesh without messing up my sculpting progress.
Open source is great for those who can't afford commercial software. But once you can, it's understandable to want to invest in one. I'll still be using Blender for animation, though. I've always loved how it seamlessly combines bone and shape animations.
For instance, I've often found the sculpting tools in Blender too constricting. I really like that they added the features, and the sculpture tool itself is great. But the Multi-Res system that allows you to sculpt models at different subdivision levels is a tad restrictive. Once you've applied it, you are stuck with the base model as it is. I've recently downloaded the 30-day trial version of Silo 3D, and I'm seriously considering purchasing a license. It's sculpting tools are quite nice, and perform better on my system than Blender's do. And I adore the ability to go back and make changes to the base mesh without messing up my sculpting progress.
No, the most appealing thing about Blender will always be that its FREE.
I certainly hope not. Realistically thats one of Blender weakest positive points. Its not like people dont know about torrents, or studios dont have budgets.
If we are looking at a theoretical long term (I.E. Blender is not there yet) most appealing thing, I would say the ability to compress a studio's workflow from dozens of apps down to just one or two, or the availability of source code for making inhouse customized builds.
Replies
my sources say modo may be the next to go
I can't help but think this is anti-competitive in a sense, and certainly seems to lead to a more consumer hostile market. Sure, we're not talking Google-Yahoo-Microsoft scale here, but still..
http://www.izware.com/mirai/
now with preselection I think Maya has finally finished transforming into Mirai. what I always wanted. My Mirai with Maya manipulators.
I think the only reason that website still exists is so Autodesk will gobble them up as well ( Autodesk bait ).
on the other hand, it's not like you're suddenly out of fashion by not upgrading to the very latest version. foundation price never seemed sustainable to me either. i evaluated it and would have bought it if i'd liked the app but it seemed like a special offer without much of a future of it's own indeed to me.
This is relevant. I buy local milk and get a refund for returning the glass bottles. Think local. :poly124:
i prefer world space!
OMG I MADE A GEEK JOKE!
holy shit that was actually funny
This is the thin ray for me. I used to really enjoy using cat. I actually am nauseated by cs and loved the availability of an alternative.
By the way, I have CAT working with max2008
Sure there are things about max I would change, but then again, EVERY piece of software or game ever made has the potential to be better, and it's easy to chalk it up to laziness on the developer's part. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, and even the Softimage guy said something along the lines that they were working too hard for too long in their current position, and hoped that they could see greater funding at Autodesk.
yeah one standard that everyone hates equally with no choice, thats fucking brilliant. Because you know, everyone works exactly the same.
[ame]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kR7UWImpG54[/ame]
LOL! That was awesome.
Indeed.
Not too sure what to think of this one... making me really wounder what language to focus on learning for scripting. I'd love to think Autodesk has some sort of plan but lately I'm stating to question it.
On a serious note, i like the idea that all 3 programs could be going towards the same goal, thats a nice idea.
The reality is probaly further though.
I think that now Max, Maya and XSI will suffer a bit. But who knows what Autodesk have in mind.
Take your pick. For scripting, XSI supports Python, VBScript, JScript (which is similar to JavaScript) and PerlScript. Jscript would be the most comfortable for Maya users familiar with MEL.
That video was great.
I follow Blender closely, but it's not looking like it'll convince me anytime soon, I'm afraid.
Modo's an option, but I haven't really used it enough to be able to tell (and I'm not paying for a demo)
You can't follow it very closely, or you'd know that the 2.50 will have definable shortcuts and a new interface, and that they have been releasing new versions every 2 months with several new features each.
The opposite of what you claim.
The current 2.48 interface is different from the old ones, as it has most of the commands in the menus now, so you don't have to memorize hotkeys.
I used to hate Blender with a passion. But it's different now. It's not what is was back in the 2.2 and 2.3 days.
I guess now XSI will have a compass, to make the program soo much better than it was and it will get some awesome pelt mapping. This is soo exciting I want to take a dump.
http://www.cafepress.com/Nomdesk
Most people who get into Blender end up really liking and regularly using the program. If you do actually memorize most of the default controls, the workflow is easily comparable in speed to just about any major 3D package. The learning curve is steep, but the rewards are usually well worth it.
But let's not delude ourselves. The #1 reason for liking and using Blender isn't how well it compares to the major 3D packages. All three of the big 3D packages have more robust feature sets than Blender. And its not the ease of use. Everyone knows that Blender is not an immediately intuitive software package. It's interface is not easy to grasp right off, and is vastly different from what most 3D packages present.
No, the most appealing thing about Blender will always be that its FREE. You don't have to drop mad cash on it. It doesn't have cheaper educational licenses. And it won't expire after 30 days. And unlike some commercial apps that are made free-to-use, it gets regular updates. (most apps have their support dry up after going the free-to-use route) Blender will always have a following because it persists in not charging for the software or the accompanying updates. In an industry that regularly charges $1000+ for single-user licenses, that counts for something.
No thanks. I already know which way is Z.
Also, XSI has pelt mapping, remember? When Autodesk made a big deal about Max getting pelt mapping to convince users to upgrade. We got a free plugin soon after. Not that it's needed. Unique UV's and Relax do rather well.
At least you get it. Well put.
Daaaaark: I do follow it closely. I know about every version's new features, and the recent game-centric release was pretty cool, but until shortcuts can be changed (and I knew about 2.50, but that's been 'coming soon' since two years ago. Only now are we actually getting close to getting it done) it's ultimately pointless for anyone who didn't start with Blender, and who wants to apply the knowledge he got in another program to Blender.
Now, enough rabid defense of your program. I pointed out flaws, as I do with Max, Silo and every other program I ever use.
Blender is the really skinny kid in the corner that doesn't realize the monster who just gobbled up all the fat kids, isn't coming for it...
I've used Max, lots of other smaller 3d apps, and Blender. My workflow has been the same in all 3 of them, and any knowledge transfers across seamlessly. Polygons are polygons. An extrusion is an extrusion, no matter what program you are using. (Unless you use TrueSpace, then it's a sweep, and a **** ed up one at that! And you get ten different stories from ten different devs on why it doesn't work right, and then finally you get a PM @ 3am by a frustrated dev who's all like.. "what's this extrude thing you speak of?" :poly124:)
For instance, I've often found the sculpting tools in Blender too constricting. I really like that they added the features, and the sculpture tool itself is great. But the Multi-Res system that allows you to sculpt models at different subdivision levels is a tad restrictive. Once you've applied it, you are stuck with the base model as it is. I've recently downloaded the 30-day trial version of Silo 3D, and I'm seriously considering purchasing a license. It's sculpting tools are quite nice, and perform better on my system than Blender's do. And I adore the ability to go back and make changes to the base mesh without messing up my sculpting progress.
Open source is great for those who can't afford commercial software. But once you can, it's understandable to want to invest in one. I'll still be using Blender for animation, though. I've always loved how it seamlessly combines bone and shape animations.
You might be interested in the multirez branch. http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=716
It not only allows editing of multirez objects, but also allows them to be split and joined on the fly.
I certainly hope not. Realistically thats one of Blender weakest positive points. Its not like people dont know about torrents, or studios dont have budgets.
If we are looking at a theoretical long term (I.E. Blender is not there yet) most appealing thing, I would say the ability to compress a studio's workflow from dozens of apps down to just one or two, or the availability of source code for making inhouse customized builds.