Game Developer Asks To Hear From Pirates
polycounter lvl 18
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/08/10/1553224.shtml
I kinda get the feeling that PC gaming will eventually die off, Gamestop has a limited selection of PC games. Digital distribution (ie, Steam) is definitely the safest media for PC developers.
edit: die off meaning off the store shelves.
by Comatose51
It's ironic that I would trust pirates over some game developers to not screw up my system.
I kinda get the feeling that PC gaming will eventually die off, Gamestop has a limited selection of PC games. Digital distribution (ie, Steam) is definitely the safest media for PC developers.
edit: die off meaning off the store shelves.
Replies
I did some as far back as middle school, just in the fact that someone would copy wolfenstein to a 3.5" floppy and pass it around, but I'd say actual piracy started in College.
There are two reasons I see for this. 1) I was poor, as all of my money went towards school. and 2) Once at College, I was surrounded by people with the know how to do it.
I may have been willing to pirate earlier in life, but I didn't have the knowledge of where to find what I wanted etc. College opened up whole new avenues for that. You could go to pretty much anyone, and ask for pretty much anything, and have it the next day. That's a hard thing not to take advantage of, especially when you don't have the money to otherwise shell out for the game/program.
Once I started making a bit more money, I would pretty much only download games that I didn't care much about, didn't know much about, or knew I wasn't going to play much. i.e. I would always buy Halflife, or Civ, because I KNEW I would be playing them a lot. I also acknowledged the amazing work that was done for those games. But many games, I wasn't so sure I'd love, and I wanted to try them out first. Sometimes I would download something, find out it was awesome, then go out and buy it. More often, I would download something, find out it sucked, stop playing it, and be glad I hadn't shelled out $50 for it.
Now, I AM a game developer, and while I don't download full games much anymore. I guess I still do sometimes, for things like lan parties, where I won't be playing it anywhere but that one event.
The one big exception to this, is for PC games that I don't buy through steam (God I love Steam now!), I will almost invariably look for, and download a NO CD crack. I own the game, but if I'm playing more than one thing, I don't want to have to go find the CD and swap it out EVERY TIME I want to play. It's just a hassle. I have no problem with having to have a log in or a key that's checked online. That's fine, just don't make me have to find the fucking CD every time!
icing on the cake for me is the fact that they have sales regularly too, new game for 45$? yes please!
I wish I knew what the answer was, but I don't. And, I imagine any answer would involve some sort of PC branding and unified set of standards across all companies. Games for Windows, but with some sort of real effort behind it.
In my opinion, I think the biggest hurdles are an easy to use system of rating to match users to games their PC can handle, an interface to allow more casual gamers to pick, install, and play a game with no worry, and the elimination of $50-60 price tags through some sort of "pay as you play or until you hit the magic price point" system. Stream games like we stream video. sounds simple right??
but alas, I have had too much coffee, and must put an end to this rambling. Cool link Lee3dee!
EA made more money from PC last quarter than any other system.
I think it'll do fine.
Speaking of Steam
[/shameless promotion]
I think when the game starts and the credits roll there should be a small text explaining the situation lol. That would be powerful it would work to some degree.
I moved here and got some new friends, people pirating all their games. I talked about what was going on (not being mad at them) now all who used to copy, buy their games.
Having been in the industry for 2 years now has changed my views. I buy all my games now.
-caseyjones
Most games i play generally have an online side that never work with a pirated copy so ive always ended up buying them because of that!
Still, i dont think games are too different to other forms of piracy for what motivates it... its like they say; try before you buy/convenient - and steams doing awesome things for those things. I've found myself looking on steam and thinking "i wouldnt mind playing that" and been close to picking up other games just because i can... easily. Steam may not be stopping piracy but i would think its giving games that immediate accessibility that comes with downloading; still, you may get people who begrudge parting with their money!
*monkey grabs for box*
Ey! easy there. This wasn't easy to find. You can't just have it! Your eye patch is rare, that will do.
*monkey gives over sweet cross-bones eye patch for trade*
Enjoy monkey!
And that's how AIDs was created and why pirating is bad.
One of the reasons for this is that if I want to try a friend's 360 game, I can just pop the disc (rental or borrow) in my system, play it, and return it. On the PC, it's a much different situation and a good demo I think is critical in preventing piracy.
Then again, I know a lot of people, including myself when I was a wee lad, have pirated because they were poor and will do so regardless of the situation. To be honest, I would have not bought any of those games in the first place because I was poor, and I would save my money to buy the good online games.
pc titles I bought: quake 3, halflife 2
piracy on the pc has always been rife, but in no way compares to the amiga in its hay day, and we didn't even have the internet! I only ever shelled out for PC games I respected. 99% of other games I've played have been utter shite (EDIT: let me make this clear; demos etc, I haven't actually pirated PC games as I don't run windows). Whats the point of paying if you find it on bit torrent?
Although in saying that, I do own over 300 or so nes, snes and dreamcast games, all legit.
Oh, you know, to support the developer? You obviously don't work in the PC industry...
haha i've seen so many developers pirating, be it for research purposes or lan fun after work, that has nothing to do with the industry, i can understand guys pirating games when even the ones living from developing games don't care too much about it... i stopped downloading games a few years back, but i also play way less since then, mostly steamgames or on consoles, only a few titles a year, back in school i played so damn many games, can't even remember i just downloaded them to have them, started and deleted most of em, but it's just way to easy to get your hands on games. maybe a cheap gameflatrate would help, but even then, when copying is so easy, why even pay 10 bucks a month?
I once saw one of my class mates log into steam and every game in the shop was open for him to download and he hadnt bought any. its insane, I dont know how it works but he only downloaded a few games before steam screwed up, so I suppose steam is reasonably safe but when it is unsafe its the most powerful pirating tool out there. Kinda scary.
I used to pirate occasionally when I was young in south africa, I couldnt afford the games and no one I knew could afford to buy the games they wanted. So I would buy 2 or 3 a year and maybe pirate 1 or 2 from a friend or at a lan party.
I remember when DRM and online registration(steam etc) became standard even more people started to pirate who used to buy games, this is actually because our internet connections in south africa where pretty bad and alot of people couldnt even get steam/updates installed when they bought half life 2, and couldnt play the games they bought, that pisses people off.
Ever since I got my first job I havent pirated any games.
Holy shit, are you people delusional? You just reiterated the same exact thing hawken said. You do realize that if everyone had your stupid philosophy that this entire industry would crash?
You're really going to compare using a professional tool that costs thousands of dollars for the purpose of learning to pirating a $20-$50 game for recreation? I've never worked anywhere that had pirated copies of Photoshop, 3DS, etc.
Take a look at Kart Rider. WoW calibur popularity for what is essentially a racing game. I'd argue that the mmo qualites of the product make it even better than a Mario Kart in terms of features. Can you pirate it? Not really, unless you do so on a private server like other MMOs, but then you're sort of missing the point eh?
I've enjoyed my time designing MMOs so far, it takes a good bit of the worry about shelf life and theft away from the get go.
My two cents.
I dont know if it still exists, but I remember a few years back I saw an ad in 3dworld mag I think that autodesk would pay up 50k or something if you report a company using pirated software. mmmmm money. I'd feel bad though. As I rolled in my monies.
That's a trick dare. My commercial version of XSI is legally bought. So is Photoshop. Those tools are what my portfolio is made of. I've used them to create games.
I do not pirate games. All of my games are paid for, demos of which I hope to buy soon (even better when the price drops), or free. Demos are often all you need of a game before you've had enough.
Do I still have pirated creation software? Perhaps. Why? Game companies want their employees to be knowledgeable in a specific tool. This tool differs for each company. Each tool developer offers no accessible and affordable option for individual users. Artists increase their chances of employment by apply to several companies. So, it's best that they're familiar with many tools. The only sensible option is to pirate. Game companies dislike from their customers, what they require from their workers. It's dysfunctional.
But, pirating this type of software is not harmful to the developer. Because they rely on the companies, not the individual (who will soon be employees, and legal users). It's taken a long time for me to understand this perspective. Do you see Autodesk complaining about individual pirates. No. The more users, the more potential customers.
Companies using pirated software deserve to be closed, and receive no income from their products. Users pirating games, doing harm to the developer in a fragile industry and ruining gaming for many by provoking the use of anti-piracy software, are idiots. (See Hawken)
I'm really confused
in some ways / cases, it nets more customers.
hell, i'll openly admit that i downloaded call of duty 4 for the PC, and then bought the thing for my 360 cuz i saw it to be worth it.
games that i download and end up not buying are the ones i never bother finishing, or finish to quick. that just implies a 'boring' / 'bad' game. something that i'd be able to understand from a long-enough demo.
with my 360 games, they're all originals. but i'm very selective [given my economic status as the average middle class kid who has 5 years of university and frightening job prospects ahead of him]. i only buy these games when the trailers are good enough, and the gameplay shown really excites me. but when these games dont live up to the hype, i get pissed all the more, and figure that my 'pirate to try, like it then buy' method is better.
developers get their good cash for their good game.
im not riskin 40 - 60$ on a 10 hour game where i do the same shit over and over again.
i dont support people who pirate if they do it just cuz they dont see the harm. i see / know the harm. but a company that gets money cuz they did well at hyping a shitty game, and not releasing a demo, won't improve their level. thats not good for the industry afaik?
all im saying is, make my game worth it. i'll pirate it. test it. like it. delete the pirated version. go to the shop. and shell out my 50-60$.
oh and if its tough to crack, ill wait till it gets cracked, test it, like it, delete the pirated version, and go buy the game at 30$. company loses 30$ from me, and many others, just cuz they tried to be clever.
just my thoughts on the topic.
cheers
then==fail
It's not my philosophy, this is how kids think about games, they can't afford them and why should they? As it's way easier to download a game and start it, instead of walking to a shop, paying money, walking back home, installing it and fight with the damn copy protection.
I'm not copying games anymore as said before, but of course you can twist the words i said if thats easier for you.
I understand why some people are copying games, and it won't change as long the industry punishes you for buying a game (i remember back in the days when i played copyied games, morrowing was way faster when cracked, loading times where shorter and it crashed less)... what is the purpose of games you buy in a shop anyways? i remember times where you got not only a stupid thin plastic box with a cd and a 5 language epilepsy warning, but a cool box, a real handbook and goodies, stuff thats not hard and expensive to produce and gives the buyer something a downloader can't have.
I remember that, I kept all my game boxes because of those little goodies and back home I have a closet full of them. I don't buy or play games anymore because you don't get any cool shit with new games, it's all centered around the game and how you can mass-market the entertainment appeal of it. On that note, it's a good idea to understand what people like and how to interpret that into your game design, but for some reason we keep rehashing the same old ideas. It's as if there is no theory to the mass-market - and we're just a blind guy poking around with his walking stick trying to find where to walk, all the while we're playing it safe by standing still and poking every single thing before taking a step.
Nah, I don't know about the whole thing. Games are too expensive I think. I mean I wish I could buy these $60 games Americans get... over here in Sweden they are more close to $90-100 which is pretty steep for most people's wallets. It's an investment and with all these crappy license games going around today I don't think anyone would want to take a chance and accidentally waste this month's "entertainment budget" on something that you can't even return.
This is one of the good things with Steam. You can wait until the games get cheap and buy them. It'd never work in a regular game shop cause their shelves are too valuable to keep budget games around. Sure they sometimes have these huge baskets with random budget games but I don't know... not good enough cause who want to go to the store only to find out that they don't even have the game?
Everyone's got their reasons... piracy is never good but at some point you gotta let it go. I wouldn't reproach someone who is buying all the games that he/she can afford and downloading the rest. Like.. I'd rather have these people contribute to the community while playing the game for free instead of not getting to play the game at all. I mean if I'd make a game it would be for people to play it.
EDIT: And people gotta figure out how to make a "master disc" for consoles and PC so you only need to buy the game once. God.. I had to buy GoW twice so I could play around with the editor.
To me, someone without a lot of excess cash to spend on games, when I go to a game store to browse some games, it's like walking into a library where all the books are sealed up. You can't read the first little bit to tell if the writing is good or that you might like the story (game demos alleviate this, if they are available). You have to rely on word of mouth and/or reviews (that can be biased depeding on who is funding the site), niether is completely accurate. Now, these books give about 8hrs of 'play time', about the same time as an average game. The big difference here is the books cost $6-7, while the games cost $60.
Books are returnable, very very few game stores will let you return games that have been opened.
If I don't feel confident that my purchase will give me back a value equal to the amount of money I put into it, well, I'm not going to buy it.
If the book sucks, meh, it was $6.
If the game sucks, I feel like I'd have rather been kicked in the junk. Let's face it, players get burned on bad games a LOT. Buy three games, they suck, well you're out $180+. Trade-in values have plummeted in the past 8 years so that's barely an option.
Sure you could buy used, but that's a gamble on disk quality. Also, that money goes to the store rather than the devs.
Oh, and that's BEFORE any DRM/SecureROM/whatever bullshit that might break the game, if it even lets me install it because my computer is just the right hardware+software configuration to not be compatible with the 'security' (*forcing me to download a crack for my legit game, which I may have well just pirated it in the first place)...
Or meeting all the stated requirements to run the game and finding out that these are just barely enough to get 10FPS in the slow areas. Thus forcing me to turn down some graphics options and the game looks like shite. Awesome! I paid $60 to play a game that looks like 20% quality jpgs! Looks like I'll have to spend $100 for that new video card and $50 for a decent amount of RAM.
Who cares, they already have my money and I have my game, right?
No, I don't pirate games. I haven't in 7 years. Haven't bought a pc game in 2 years and probably 2 years before that. (World of Warcraft and Half Life 2)
But this is laying out WHY some people do, coming from someone who LIKES giving money to people who I feel are worth it.
You don't buy or play games because they are centered around the game? And you don't buy or play games because you don't get any 'cool shit' with them?
Do you not watch films that are centered around the film? 12 Angry Men didn't come with 'cool shit'.
pretty much.
I remember when I went to buy the original fat DS when it came out and the dude behind the counter was like, "You don't want a DS, you should definitely get a PSP," and I was like, "I'm not interested in the PSP," and he demanded in this really confrontational voice, "Why?" like I somehow had to justify my taste in videogames to him before he'd do his god damned job and sell me what I came to buy.
I used to pirate music a bunch and then I got a rhapsody subscription and then pirating music no longer seemed necessary.
I don't work in the industry (um, but I'm working on that) but the software I use is all legit. My licenses of Maya, Mudbox, and Silo were all paid for out of my own pocket using monies I earned at joe-jobs, Photoshop and Illustrator were gifts, and I'm homies with one of the Artrage dudes and he hooked me up. In my opinion if you can justify the expense of a few hundred dollars on a next-gen game console it shouldn't be too hard to do the same thing for the noncommercial or educational licenses of software you need to be proficient at to work in this field.
LOL. You had me at boughten.
I bought UT2K4 twice cuz I lost my install disc and I bought the Penny Arcade game twice, once on PC then on the 360 when I realized I like the controls better, sos I paid mah dooos!
I prefer to buy the full version so I have the proper cd and box for some reason
Woah! hold your horses there. You seem to have linked me with pirating software, which isn't true and not actually stated anywhere.
I am a licensed user of 3dsmax and cinema4d, all my adobe software at home and at the work place are licensed to both me and my staff. We only use legitimate paid for software. My comment about why not pirate when it's freely availible on bit torrent is a general comment and not to be taken out of context --- I haven't used windows for 3 years, and the last game I played on windows was halflife 2, before it quake3. Somewhere in the middle are demos and other fluff, but I'm not really a PC gamers gamer.
So before you light this thread up with flames just take a moment to consider what you are writing and who you are pointing fingers at. I'm just saying it's too easy. With consoles it's a whole different financial model.
Not to mention the possible small fortune I have sunk into arcade machines over the past 15 years, I probably run them from my pocket alone.
Now this got my attention. Even though it'd make me feel like an ass, I know of a few places that have never even seen a legit dev tool.
As for my stance on the whole piracy deal, I think it's ok for students (who're broke 95% of the time anyway) to use, but not so once its intended to be used for profit. Games I wont get into cause then I'd have to rant
I think I made myself clear. And you should follow your own advice.
I actually found it pretty entertaining to read.
To keep it on topic, here's a theory on illegitimate software useage I found interesting:
I forget who it was, or perhaps where I read it, but I remember being told once that Max & Photoshop are so easily pirated so that people that want to learn it in their spare time may do so. If they pick it up and use it well enough, theres a high chance they'll work in a field that uses that program 'professionally'.
A professional company may hire them for their developed skillset in said application(s), and will license the software in fear of a lawsuit from Autodesk/Adobe/whomever owns the application.
Since it's easier for them to go after a studio than in individual (not to mention that more money is likely to be had) they continue to allow their software to be easily 'hacked'. Additionally, because this company is licensing the software, thats an X amount of guaranteed licensee's vs. an unknown amount of public/freelance users.
Thoughts????
I personally couldn't afford the software I now use professionally when I was learning it years ago and now the company I work for owns the license to said software. So I can see how this theory holds some weight. Anyone else have some insight on the matter?
And, I'm sorry...but if you're in the industry, and you download games...shame on you ten fold. In most cases, you make a decent enough salary to spend the $60, and know if the game is going to be shit or not, there's no need to steal it to boot. Keep in mind, when you're download a torrent, you're also uploading it...so you are, quite literally, supporting piracy.
Don't steal, it's wrong, and you know it.