Abandoned Building/Park
I had another thread going with this piece in it but I wanted a title that pertained to my actual work so I wanted to start a new one.
Heres a new update from this weekend and what time I could put in last week during work. I still have to do the spec on the building on the left but other then that I'll be finishing the fridge and moving on to the park that will be on the far right. The last image is with default lighting and the other three have a small 5 light set up for the light poles, the ""moon light"", and the light above the door.
Let me know what you think.
Heres a new update from this weekend and what time I could put in last week during work. I still have to do the spec on the building on the left but other then that I'll be finishing the fridge and moving on to the park that will be on the far right. The last image is with default lighting and the other three have a small 5 light set up for the light poles, the ""moon light"", and the light above the door.
Let me know what you think.
Replies
throw down some weeds to break up all the grey
Also the light is too bright imo.. this feels more like brick building on a soccer field at night. erh.. and way too many stars on the sky.. and the are too big
but yeah... things aren't blending enough. you can almost make out every single brick on that wall. I doubt you could do that at night.
If it's night darkening up the scene and maybe adding some volume light from the lamp could help, just putting a couple ideas out.
I suppose I should have thrown more shots without lighting then anything. I more or less was messing around with lights when I took these screens, not saying I dont agree with your all comments. For crit purpose I think lighting "rigs" is something I should stay away from.
Anywho, as I look at my pics today and read what you guys are saying I totally agree. I have an idea on how to solve the focal point issue but it wont come in until the end, after the entire scene is done.
In the end, along with my additions, Im hoping I can set up pieces to be more appealing visually when it comes time to take screens.
Tonight I will be tweaking the spec maps on a few pieces along with creating one for the left building so hopefully some of the issues will be solved.
thanks for all the quick responses, very helpful.
With textures, its important to make sure they match. Even two completely different materials (say, porcelain and asphalt) will have similar values or saturation levels because they are in the same environment under the same lighting. With the exception of fine highlights, you can't emulate lighting in the textures - that's done through normal/bump maps and shaders.
Second, consider the size that the cracks in the walls are from this distance. Then imagine zooming up to them. Can see you see how big they would be? Much bigger in real life. Maybe turn that bump level down a notch - just a suggestion.
Looking tight overall, but of course, it could always be made to be better.
It looks like the whole scene is uniquely unwrapped? That would get pretty expensive pretty fast.
I'm not sure the fire escape was build off actual ref or not but it looks thrown together.
Why waste time on cats rats and birds when you could be doing so much more. When doing ambient creatures think about the impact its going to have down the rest of the production chain. Is anyone going to rig and animate them? Even if they get rigged and animated what programmer has the time to add extra junk the enviro artists dream up? Probably not going to happen. Which means if you really want them in there, you'll need to make them dead, a bit morbid and might be cut for those reasons, but more importantly they'll probably blend into the garbage and be a total waste of time and resources. I can think of 2 dozen better uses for those textures and polys.
vig: I'll have to post some texture maps for you. Im trying to be somewhat conservative with my texture space by using the same maps for multiple parts. My entire right building along with the props that are attached to it are all on one 2048. The walls, fire escape, "power boxes"..blah blah blah. Things like the dumpster, boxes, trash bags, those are all on their own single 1024 as well( the pile of props at the corner). I would be more then happy to hear suggestions on how to further optimise.
I was considering putting most every piece on its own map. Such as 128s, 64s, 256s but I worked with most everything in separate scenes and braught them in to make one.
If I set my composition up correctly adding life into my scene, in my opinion, could really help it out. There will be no animation, things such as the cat, rat, and such will be in mid stride....more the cat then the rat for that. I do agree the polies could be used for something for useful though if that were my main focus.
vampyre: your just all negative arent you...I cant please everyone I suppose. Dont worry about that pixel noise, my final shots will not have it. Sintilation and moray patterns cant be helped unless I want to use 256s everywhere.
pangarang: Your right about the photosource part...most of it is a compilation of 20 to 40 textures put into one. I examine those cracks and scale tonight but I have done the first step of fixing the scale of cracks. I redid the ground completely last night and eliminated much of the random cracks and holes in it. I cleaned it up a bit and scaled things correctly, like that pot hole the size of a person.....thats gone.
fixed that last night
It should look more flat. Right now it looks more like a pile of stones.
Whenever I get replies I always wonder how I could go about fixing it. Im glad you explained a little further, its gives me a better idea of what you were trying to tell me.
A cat running mid stride works for a single render but really was wasted time if thought about in real time. Balancing your time is just as important as texture size and poly count. If this is just a pretty render then forget about poly count, and texture sizes and go nuts with detail. You're stuck in between using low poly techniques and making a pretty render that works for one frame, one angle. Life also exists behind the camera, and down the block and up the next street. It will be much easier to fill the world if you think less of making a single still screen grab and more about making an actual game environment.
There's a difference between giving your scene life and putting actual living things (that will never move) in your scene. You've done a pretty good job of giving your scene life, I don't think putting living objects in there will really improve it much. Props should have purpose, work in realtime and be needed to pull off the scene. If they can be cut, they more then likely will be. Players, department leads and studio heads don't like seeing/hearing coulda-shoulda-woulda. You can't sit next to every player and explain, "oh and I had this really cool thing planned for this big blank area over here", they wouldn't care even if you could.
Whats the best way to avoid your stuff being cut? Don't make things that can be cut...
You don't want to be known as the guy that makes things, that get cut. Those guys get cut. If not from the budget then by co-workers. If the assets don't get cut, then they get reworked, guess how popular the guy is, that others have to go back over his work? Or has to give up some of his projects because he's stuck fixing old stuff.
Putting a lot of separate props on one sheet means that those props will need travel together. If someone wanted to use your trash but not the dumpster, that's rework.
A lot of people can make pretty scenes, other sites are full of them. But the valuable Environment artists learn to balance a few more things other then aesthetic quality. They are mindful of modularity, texture use and performance along with a long laundry list of things I won't bother to get into right now...
/off soapbox
/off grumpy crunch mode
What purpose does it serve?
Totally disagree, I think this is by far the best looking part of the scene, if it were me I would leave this alone and concentrate on everything else to make it look as good.
texturing looks tight, but maybe continue to adjust your specularity maps a bit more to slightly darker tones to reduce the washiness from all the reflected light.
cheers!
If its gonna be a night shot then its gonna need tons of soft shadows.
But so far its looking good. Lots of details in the texture.
Few comments on the scene thus far -
- Texturing is going in the general right direction, however your shaders / materials need focus. What separates brick from asphalt from metal? As well, listen to what others are saying and think about how you color match textures to one another. All your tones and saturation levels need to work together.
- Lighting is rather poor. High noon rarely makes for interesting lighting. Try the sun at lower angles, or go for a dusk / nighttime scene. If you choose to do a daytime scene, bounce light is key in ensuring your scene doesn't look flat. Interesting shadows will go a long way too in selling objects relation to the ground as well as breaking up large surfaces and adding visual interest.
- What are your reference photos like? I feel as if you've taken two random buildings and put them together. Get back to the basics and fine tune the architecture all the while ensuring you're giving it purpose (what is this place, what is it's function and no a rundown warehouse isn't the entire story).
Tackle these items one at time. If you get halfway done w/ your shaders and start lighting you're project will be limbo for awhile. Get each of the elements correct on their own and then understand how to put them together and complement one another.
Cheers!
Relativly speaking the shadows tend to be sharper when its most bright outside than it is at sunset. Sunrise/Sunset shadows tends to be softer then afternoon. Clouds will vary results
But ya gamedev is right the shadows are hardly ever crisp they do have falloff etc.
Even if it may be unnatural you still see it in tonnes of games...Sometimes the style/look the artist is going for warrants such creative choices. Not everyone tries to go for that photo real look or make things that behave exactly like they would in the real world.
It helps to think of it not as "light comes from the sun, or that lonely lamp in the corner" and think of it in terms of light bounces off everything its how light gets to your eye. You have to think in terms of how open a shadow is to bounce lighting. The father away a shadow gets from its source the more it will fade, thanks to bounce lighting. Its why Area Shadows are very accurate. Ray Trace and Shadow Map, not so much...
The sky acts as a big huge light source itself. It might seem stupid but really, ask yourself and think about WHY is the sky blue? Why does pollution create a brown haze? Why are shadows so soft on cloudy days?
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=51209#Post260972
I wrote this up a while back it pretty much covers the basics of lighting. There are also links that are really worth checking out.
The weeds in the center of the screen are not going to stay there...im just making small compositions of weeds before I place them.
-lee
I actually like the night scene that you had going. The lighting is really cool in that one.
The last pic is of the entire scene. I will be duplicating the buildings on the left as I see fit the help composite the scene.
anywho..here it is as of now...and of course comments are certainly welcome
its no where near done but essentially the chains would wrap around my lats, up my neck, and the openings on the north west and north east side will have hands coming out grabbing my shoulders. The main piece, not counting the chains would go from right below my shoulders to a little below mid back. Crits are always welcome though the basic design is pretty much been set in stone( in my head) for a long time.