Head banging in Maya

pior · Aug 2007

Hi all,

Something has been driving me nuts ever since I started using Maya - I actually enjoy using the app but this one problem alone spoils it all :

Is there a way to completely hide the manipulator? I would love to be able to move verts around freely (as well as edges and faces) but most of the time I accidently hit either a xyz arrow or the center square of the previously selected vert that I don't want to move anymore. Extremely annoying...

The only workaround I found so far is to scale down the manipulator alot using the - key, and also by having a keyboard shortcut bind to deselect that I need to hit everytime the problem occurs...

It's a bit of a shame since it's one of these little annoying things that makes you spend a few seconds here and there, which is okay-ish, but also completely breaks the modelling flow, which I hate!

I am using the 'click drag select' option also, ie I don't have to click to select a vertex, and then move. This option makes the two actions possible in one. Might be worth mentionning.

Heeeeelp!

Snowfly · Aug 2007

hit Q (select mode), select the vert, then switch back to move? or just marquee select while still in move mode?

i hear ya though, a tweak mode like in xsi/silo would be nice.

vahl · Aug 2007

I think x actually hides it

dnorth · Aug 2007

Not sure what version of Maya you're using, but once you have a vert selected and the move tool active, you can use the middle-mouse button to move a vert in screen space (by cliking and dragging anywhere in the viewport). You can also use the arrow keys to pick-walk through the verts. So a lot of times, I select one vert in a section of the model, use MMB to move it around, then pick-walk to the next vert, adjust it, etc. You can also hold down alt and use the arrow keys to nudge verts around in screen space for fine-tuning.

Honolulu_Ninja · Aug 2007

I use + and -
But it does'nt solve the problem really.

Vailias · Aug 2007

I tend to just hit q also if the manipulator gets in the way, then just switch back to move with w.:shrug: I guess I'm just used to that workflow.

Cubik · Aug 2007

tacit math · Aug 2007

mate. have you checked out the NEX plugin ? it'll sort you out for exactly what you're after. no manipulator middle click tweaks. with selection highlighting

http://draster.com/

warby · Aug 2007

q is the way to go

pior · Aug 2007

Well obviously I have been using the q key alot since it switches to a classic, more precise pointer with no manipulator.

The problem is I need to switch back and forth between q and w in order to move verts around which is such a pain... It's not that it's long to do, it's just that it 'breaks' the mental flow behind modelling and tweaking, which in my opinion as to be as free as possible at least for organic shapes and characters. Kind of stressful really!

I didn't know the t shortcut thanks for pointing it out Cubik. It's not what I am looking for but it might become useful in the future.

I just installed the Nex plugin, still have to play with it. Feels a bit like a powerhouse for what I need but maybe that's an answer.

I didn't know about the arrow keys thing! They are set to timeline browsing here at work. I guess I'll have to re-assign them to the original settings on my machine. And x snaps to grid here, don't know if it's a default behaviour Vahl?

Oh I'm on Maya7 btw.

Don't you guys get irritated when working on dense meshes like faces and such? It really makes me want to snap my stylus everytime the 'unselected vert behaviour' happens, which is like, 10 times every minute haha!

rooster · Aug 2007

I think x is the max toggle for gizmos? once you get into using nex though I'd be surprised if you didnt want it anyway after a while

Vailias · Aug 2007

Pior, I really don't tend to get irritated with it. It could be that I come from a lightwave background. In the earlier versions you had to "dump your tool" to select something else, so a keystroke on completion of a movement is second nature to me and I don't even notice I've done it half the time.

Emil Mujanovic · Aug 2007

I'm with you Pior, its one of those things that really irritates me also. I have my manipulator scaled down to a relatively small size to help overcome that in most situations, but it doesn't entirely solve the issue.

-caseyjones

Asthane · Aug 2007

The ways expensive software falls short never ceases to amaze me. I seriously hope programs like Silo begin to put dents in Autodesk's sales, but I doubt even that would prompt them to add much. Personally, I hate manipulators partially for this reason and do my best to work without them whenever possible-- of course I also like having to deselect things manually, so I can understand people who just get in the habit of going back to selection mode to do your selection without even thinking.

pior · Aug 2007

Well yeah Vallias I can understand that. I think it's just that I am now used to try and make my workflow as freeminded as possible in every app I use - for both efficiency and stress relief. Seeing that Max, Wings3D and Mudbox to name a few are designed for a fast modelling worflow makes it even more stressful when using another app. I completely agree with Maya being more precise and customizable than most apps, but that one precise problem I have with it kindof makes me think they didn't really stresstest it with a team of modellers to see what they could improve on...

But yeah, cool tool still. I don't give up! I'm sure there is a way to fix that problem, somehow.

Emil Mujanovic · Aug 2007

I had a go of that NEX plug that tacit math suggested. Reminds me a lot of Wings 3D, and damn that quad draw stuff is pretty sweet!

-caseyjones

rybeck · Aug 2007

Pior,

Check your PM...!

SouL · Aug 2007

Wait, I'm confused. So the main issue is that the manipulator gets in the way when you're selecting verts on a dense mesh?

Hmm. Your fingers probably aren't used to having them positioned in a way that gives you quick access to the select/move/rotate/scale hotkeys.
You'll get used to it. I'm not sure how extensively you like to use hotkeys, or how many tools you use...
But in Maya, my thumb rests on Alt and easily reaches the Spacebar. Then I have my ring finger on Q, middle finger on W, and index finger on F, and pinky on CTRL.
For me, hitting the QWERT keys to acess the manipulators is brainless and quick.

I don't think there's a way to hide the manipulator and move your selection at the same time.

I think you'll get used to it. Give it time. There's also a 'grow/shrink selection' tool to quickly increase your selection. It's crude, but can be useful.

PM me if you have anymore questions.

pior · Sep 2007

Ha HAAA!

Yeah Soul I see what you mean. I indeed use hotkeys alot, also got the technical artist here at work to help me configure Maya so that I can polymodel with no need for menus access nor buttons. Funny thing is that I also use grow/shrink alot... but no one else does here, it's like if I am the ony one to find it useful :O

The manipulator getting in the way is something else tho - for me the problem is that maya forced me to enter a different mode just to select a vert that the arrow hides. I have no problem entering the required mode to do so - it's just that I think it's a waste to do so, and it somehow breaks the smooth editing of a model for me.

Anyways! Its history now. Got the manipulator hider bound to a toggle, it's a smooth ride!
And thanks for the shortcut reminder card Rybeck!

Emil Mujanovic · Sep 2007

That's a really good idea pior! I have my manipulator set to 1/4 of the default size, but it still does get into the way from time to time. I'll definitely have to make a script that does that for myself.
As for configuring Maya, have you got all your hotboxes custom setup? I've spent the longest time making custom shelves to speed up my workflow, when I've just been using the hotbox feature so much more with the gestural selection.

-caseyjones

tacit math · Sep 2007

always thought it would be nice to have the manipulator ghosted when holding shift and adding to the selection

Steve Schulze · Sep 2007

Hold the phone... who uses Maya without using the grow and shrink commands? I can't even imagine trying to layout a UV map without them.

Emil Mujanovic · Sep 2007

[ QUOTE ]
always thought it would be nice to have the manipulator ghosted when holding shift and adding to the selection

[/ QUOTE ]
That's going to be my next project... Writing a script that does exactly that!

-caseyjones

pior · Sep 2007

Hi there, here is another one. When moving things around the cursor looks like this :

Anyone knows where the source icon is located so that I could edit this? I whish the cursor looked like the one for the split polygon tool for instance as it feels more accurate to have a sharp tip at the end of the mouse, so to speak. I know that technially the accuracy is the same but in my head that rather big square box hding what I want to select gives the tool a sloppy feel.

Also when two verts are very close together it feels like Maya tends to select the one closer to the 'screen' - essentially the one closer in depth. I don't know if this is always the case but I know that in multiple instances I had two overts close together on my screen and when I clicked near vertA, vertB gets selected even if it's father away from the cursor (whatever the 'click box size' setting also). I'd love to override this behaviour but couldn't find anything in the preferences so far.

I don't want the app to behave like another one really... It's just that I keep running into little annoyances like these that tend to break the user interaction when it comes to fast polymodeling.

I bet some of these quirks habe been fixed in newer versions but I'm stuck with 7 here...

Thanks if you can help!

-- Oh wait forgot another one. I whish the camera could 'autorotate' on the selected component. At the moment I have the F key that frames and zooms on the selection, and alt-F that pans the cam so that the current selection is centered on the screen. But I whish that the camera rotation point could be automatically positionned on the center of the current selection - so that each time I rotate my cam around, what I am working on does not get lost in space. (I don't want the currently selected components to be centered on screen, just want the camera to 'snap' to them somehow)

I'd also like the camera bahaviour to not flip when you look all the way over or under a model, it makes my head spin haha!

Any idea?

pior · Sep 2007

Also... When I have one or many verts selected, and wish to clear that selection in order to, hem, do something else, I can 'hit' the empty space around my model to unselect the verts. However I can't deselect them if I just click somewhere on the surface of the model. I have to either draw an empty selection square, or zoom out to have the background space displayed, or hit my custom deselect shortut. Is there an option to change this?

Nota - This is no Maya hate thread or a Silo vs Maya vs Max debate. I'm not saying that one is better than another, I just whish to make the tool I am using most of my day with as efficient as possible. And fun to work with!

tacit math · Sep 2007

if you look under : view > camera tools > tumble tool. there's some settings in there you can play with ( i can't remember the specifics off the top of my head ) to get the camera to tumble about wherever your cursor is located over a mesh. over a mesh because it doesn't behave as you'd hope when you've made a selection and are tumbling with your cursor outside of your model. in null space. there is one script in the joss scripts pack ( highend3d should still have it ) that will do this. but since it's mel based it slows down a lot with too many components selected. i'm hoping the NEX guys get this in one of their versions

pior · Sep 2007

Oh never looked into that one option menu TM. Well it was already set to tumble on the current object, but still it's good to know that some options are there.

I'll try to dig that one scriptpack. A collegue mentionned that what I am looking for could be done with a background "scriptjob", I guess that's what is used in that script you mention. It might be okay to use that on my Maya since I work with the history off hence there is quite a speedgain already.

Couldn't find the arrow icon so far... Maybe it's hidden in a converted BMP somewhere.

Whargoul · Sep 2007

It's probably in mayaRes.dll and you'll need a resource editor to change the contents (resHack comes to mind).

pior · Sep 2007

You guys are so awesome. I just installed the Joss script pack tons of things in here but the camera tumble on selected components is extremely useful. I think I'll get that one feature isolated but the tool coders here and I'm sur it will be part of the workflow soon.

Also ResHacker worked like a dream. I replaced the unprecise box with a sharper pointer like the one used by the split tool and it feels so much more accurate. I encourage everyone to try this tip. I can upload the edited maya7 MayaRes.dll if you whish.

Okay now with some prooftesting!

Can't wait for a solution to the 'closest vertex not selected' behaviour. Nex might do the trick but I'm still looking for a lighter solution.

Head banging in Maya

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