Community Colleges: training ground for game dev?
polycounter lvl 18
A local community college wants to set up a major to train people to enter the game industry at an entry level. My initial reaction to their approach (they contacted me for help) was that they did not understand the industry or have a realistic idea of the kinds of jobs that people do. The impression I took away from their questionaire is that they wanted to train students (over the course of a 2 year traditional AA degree program) to do a little bit of everything (coding, art, level design, etc.). And that the resulting "technical specialist" could then find his or her way into an entry level situation in the game industry and develop further job skills from there.
Very Ivory Tower.
Realistically speaking (from the experience of you guys working for developers of all sizes), are there jobs at your companies that one could train for in 2 years of traditional academic schooling (along with taking the usual General Education courses required by universities at the undergrad level).
I'd like to help these folks, but I'm a loss where to guide them.
Very Ivory Tower.
Realistically speaking (from the experience of you guys working for developers of all sizes), are there jobs at your companies that one could train for in 2 years of traditional academic schooling (along with taking the usual General Education courses required by universities at the undergrad level).
I'd like to help these folks, but I'm a loss where to guide them.
Replies
Seems like they should focus on a more realistic approach. Seperate degree plans for art, game-design, coding, and possibly business management seems much more useful, with a single class devoted to an overview of the industry. Having seperate degree plans, but having the different disciplines work together to create mini-projects would be the best way to approach this sort of thing, in my opinion.
Maybe you could ask them for some clarification on what they hope to accomplish, and let them know that their current idea may be unrealistic.
I was just about to email you this morning in regard to this, as I believe the college that contacted you may have done so per my request. (Assuming we are speaking of the same South Texas institution).
If this is the case, you are correct in that they have little or no expertise in the games arena, but do apparently have a real desire to implement something that would benefit the area, bring in new students and potential developers, and offer an education to help students get exposure to the necessary training that could lead to employment in the games industry.
The university offers only two year programs and typically receives students who have completed their first two years at community colleges or have transferred in from other universities to complete their formal education. They currently have a strong computer science program in place, but as for (art, level design, and game development in general) they would be hard pressed without either establishing some form of art program or looking to students to pick up those skills from an alternative source such as their parent university, transfer university, art institution, or the community college down the block.
The bottom line is, they do want to start up a program with game development as the emphasis. My initial fear was that they would try to implement something they knew little or nothing about and it would result in a hodge-podge curriculum with no real ability to produce fruit. They have apparently been looking to me for some guidance in this area and while I'm doing my best to give them some direction, I do not consider myself remotely expert enough to help them develop a solid program, which is why I referred them to you. Because I believe they may be trying to tackle a very broad base, I had suggested they perhaps focus on their strength in computer science and perhaps lure aspiring artists with techincal background from the community college next door by offering some courses in modeling and scripting. I felt that direction would be more achievable in the shortterm and could be geared towards producing technical artists. My overall impression from the talks I've had with professors and those involved in setting this up, is that they may be wanting to tackle too much too quickly given their level of expertise. In the longterm, I can see this happening...but I think it may require a more gradual process unless their intention is to build upon the foundations other area institutions are offering.
Update: I was contacted by a professor this morning in regard to this very topic. Apparently the community college you speak of is not the same institution I was referring to...however, that community college is apparently looking to collaborate with the two year university I work at. So while we may be discussing two different institutions, apparently the university I work for is collaborating with the community college that must have contacted you.
There is a desire by schools to serve the wants of young people, particularly those coming out of high school, to get into the game industry as quickly as possible. The issue, as I see it, is that nearly every "entry level" development position requires skills that build on existing skills ... and those existing skills are often only taught in junior and senior level university coures ... ones that build on skills learned in the types of courses taught in freshman and sophmore level classes (i.e.; community college level courses).
So I come back to it ... are there jobs out there at some developers that could be filled by entry level people trained at a community college. These may not just be art jobs.
AA degrees are a joke. This is just a school trying to cash in on a flood of students who think, mistakenly, that they want to go into games.
I'm not an expert but just reading what Miles posted, maybe they could make a 2 year program for game scripting. Then you could work on the art pipeline (doing spell effects, etc), tools or coding.
I think a little of everything is going to leave graduates with much of nothing. Maybe a class on pipelines and study the pipelines of several types of studios and then focus the rest of the class on the areas the industry has to offer, code, art, testing. It sounds like they want one size fits all degree but that doesn't work for normal companies that have many pieces that do different functions. Maybe a one size fits all degree but with specializations in different areas, kind of like picking a major?
I fear that this type of course will attract what the industry doesn't need, slackers looking for a fast way into a cushy job. Ultimately it could devalue having a degree, and having a degree in game development will be like a degree in liberal arts, the fast track to debt and a job at subway. They need to be careful to attract the right kind of students, slackers who drop out when they find they actually might have to work will only erode the program.
I think telling the school that the program, the way they wish to run it at the moment, will not be successful. (Although the school won't have a problem with wasting the students' time and money)
It's not something that requires artistic talent by any means, as most of their content would be made before they piece things together in the world, or after they create the layout and rough passes on levels. So they can either go the 'play with legos to make something fun' or do the other side of that wich involves some of the writing for events, questing, missions, etc.
I fell under the same trap at a 'tech' university. They offered a Bachelor's degree that was geared toward game design. It wasn't quite what I wanted though, as I wanted to make art for games. So when I found that out, I put more time in developing my abilities in modeling/texturing outside of class. So I ended up getting learned in game design as well as got a portfolio together. Kinda sucked though, not being able to go to anyone at the university the critique my work.
But that's where you guys came in. ;0
Community college sounds like what I attended - rather than staying in school for an extra 2 years I went to college for a 2 yeat It course, and that was to prepare me for university. To be frank, apart from some mathemetics, Pascal and some machine code I learned nothing tht I didn't already know. It was purely to get the qualifications for university (and had a 50% drop out rate).
When I got to university for a 4 year course, thats where I really gained knowledge (and the Pascal and machine code were utterly pointless).
Now, my good friend Daryl does run a 4 year univeristy course specialising in the games industry where we works on the art side. Daryl has several years expeience as a graphic designer, sculer and games artist, which makes me think the art site of the course at least will be partially relevent. But thats a 4 year course for people who have already displayed some academic potentional in some relevent fields.
Paul - how would you feel in that 2 year course was a primer for Guildhall or somewhere similar? Would that make more sense to everyone involved?
Sick as a dog. Off to take tablets and bourbon.
As I've said before, I'm currently enrolled in a Game Art and Design program at an Art Institute. We do work on the quater system; 11 weeks, meet once a week for 4 hours. But this is a 4 year degree. My school has the "let's make them a generalist" attitude as well. So it's very difficult to get the time to specialize on one aspect of game art. In any given week I'll find myself creating a character model, doing a storyboard, working on a team project, concepting a level, and doing my physics homework. All of this can be very consuming and stressful, so...like Vig said, an orientation with a wake up call.
Edit: I should also note that by the time you're done learning something completely new to you, it's time to start learning something else completely new to you. So unless you're spending everyday outside of class working on personal projects and portfolio pieces, it's difficult to build a solid portfolio while in school. /edit
@Kaos: There's nothing wrong with the 10-20 days of "actual education." And in all honesty if it's a career that they're serious about, it should be 24/7 education. Whether it be going to open labs, workshops, local professionals, your teachers, online, etc.
@Xenobond: I think I've lucked out in that aspect. I see alot of people complain about their professors in a game design, or related degree program. I'm actually impressed with the knowledge of the majority of my teachers. Most are still in the industry, doing freelance work, all are knowledgable in the aspects they teach, and in most cases are willing to spend time with you to help hone your skills.
As far as this degree program is concerned. I think a 2 year AA focusing on Game Design would be fine if they were to focus on one aspect. Covering every aspect and expecting the student to gain enough knowledge to get an entry level position in 2 years might be difficult. I'm sure the school has a Comp Sci degree program, so why not create a Game Design Technical Artist program? I hear that's one of the hardest positions to fill in a studio. I think alot of programs like this think art in general is easy. Hence why they think they can cram countless years of learning proper anatomy, architectural design, perspective, etc. into 2 years of schooling...and don't forget to just throw in whatever 3D application. In the long run, if the school in question doesn't focus their resources on one aspect of game art, I think they'll be hard pressed to place their graduates in the industry. At the most the student would probably take the education and continue their continued education elsewhere after graduation.