So why do so many of you switch jobs so often?
polycounter lvl 17
I've noticed quite a few of you switch jobs quite often, sometimes it seems yearly! Just wondering if it is personal preference or more to do with the company you hope to join or currently work at? Do you see yourself changing jobs frequently or settling down in one company some day?
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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ding!
Yeah unfortunately, to get a big raise in this industry you usually have to switch compaines. Sometimes if you stick around for a while you get a yearly raise or a bonus or something like that, but if you want a big ass raise and want to move to a different income tax bracket, hopping companies is your best bet.
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w3rd.
Sometimes you need to hop companies in order to get a better position too, my friend is an excellent artist, but gets over looked for others. So he ends up with crappy tasks to deal with. I know its driving him slowly insane and unless it changes he will hop companies.
Company closure and bad management have been my reasons to switch company so far
The reason I've been at Neversoft for longer than any company so far (just hit my one year mark)
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Wow. That is not exactly a a ringing endorsement for the whole industry, Poop.
Ive been happy at the same place of employment now since 1985.
On the otherhand I am not doing something that I actually love doing
The fastest route is usually to switch jobs.
The biggest factor for me coming to Neversoft was company stability. Working for smaller developers and feeling extremely nervous every time we had trouble signing a new project was wearing real thin. I didn't want that feeling anymore.
Once I got here, all the other benefits of working here became apparent. It's possible I work here the rest of my career. Well, unless they can me.
I made an arse load of $ out of stock from staying at the same company as long as I did so there are some benefits, but I *really* regret it now. I wish I'd moved around much sooner. Life's all about experiences and meeting new people. Who wants to be in the same job all their lives?
Go to a place you want to be at. Don's imply do it for the money.
yep, i'll chuck a resume straight in the bin if there's constant switches of a year or less. You can be the world's greatest artist but it's irrelevant if you're just going to fuck off again, that's what contracters and outsourcing are for
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Sure it depends on whether or not the company went tits up and there was no choice but to switch?
i'd also suggest that making sure jumping is really a good thing for you. Jumping around can backfire and make you a less attractive applicant if they feel they cant trust you to stick around for the length of the project.
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Definitely. One of the sticking points for me, has been that I've had a good reason for each move. If you can prove that your moves have been related to sound business decisions, any good company will understand during the hiring process. Neversoft asked me in my job interview why they would be my fourth company in three years. I explained my reasoning, and they moved on with the interview, satisfied.
In addition, I'd rather have a tallented artist that can pull his/her weight for a year, than someone who can barely create shipable-level assets who can't get another studio interested in hiring them away, that sticks around for five years. Loyalty is all well and good, but I know I value ability to contribute, much higher in the importance scale.
I like that, when it comes time to decide to keep a team for another round, file for bankruptcy, sell a company to someone who might destroy it, downsize, etc, the company will always think of itself first. However for us as employees, when we go to make a decision about where we work and how happy we are with our current project, how good/bad the hours are, how competent/incompetent our managers are, we are ALSO supposed to think about the company first. The studio itself will never put the individuals employees needs on the list of priorities if things are truly dour, yet every employee is expected to do that.
I also like that the industry is perfectly fine with hiring very young people, when they show sufficient tallent, because they know they can pay them very lilttle compared to their older counterparts. Yet they expect these people who are barely used to living on their own, to act with the maturity and experience of someone who is in their fourties. It'd be like if McDonalds kept getting mad when the 15 year olds they hire are acting immature. Hire someone not used to the line of work and the atmosphere you are bringing them into, and expect them not to ever make immature mistakes.
Oh, all the times where I used the word like in the above paragraphs, I meant the word "despise". Like Firestarter said below, when this industry stops being such collosal morons with how they treat employees, then they can start to watch for job length as any kind of predictor for employee quality. If a studio was so concerned with length of employement without regard for reasons, it would tell me they are also going to eventually show their incompetence and don't want to deal with me walking out on them. I *want* to work at one place for a long time. Every time I've gone into a job, it's been for the long run. However it's always been the studios that have changed my mind and chased me away, based on the treatment I've recieved.
I`m in the belief that the vast majority of professional `Job Hoppers` would settle if they could. It`s not fun, NOT having a `home`, I havent bought anything larger than a paperback for years, just in case I gotta move again, and as it happens my salary has been dropping steadily.
@danr: Not sure where your judgemental attitude comes from, it`s not like the company you work for has a glowing employer reputation, I wouldnt bother sending my resume to your lot, I`d rather be on the dole :P
With that said, I'm the type of guy (and maybe age is a factor) that likes stablity and is not going to cash that in for a few more bucks. Most of the jobs I have worked, all but my current was outside the industry, I was there for 3-5 years. In all but one of those cases I left because the company went in another direction or folded up shop.
But basically, I wouldn't discount a talented artist without giving him the chance to explain himself for EITHER moving around a lot, or not moving around at all.
With that being said, beware of the grass is always greener syndrome. I've seen it backfire with a number of my friends.
I think that most people can decide this for themselves within a year or so. Don't see how that makes them a bunny hopper that'll need to be avoided. It's also as much resposibility of the company to want to keep it's employees there.
you all are so cool, with matt and his cap and dash with his red hair and jeff m and his glasses, too many people and their one outstanding feature to list
There are many reasons to leave and many valid ones have already been listed. I am sure that many people have started out in this industry and said to themselves "Finally! my first real game job! i'll never leave and stay here forever!", until some sort of issue pops up that forces said individual to make that choice to leave. That person's reason to leave may also be something that is unavoidable.
Loyalty and dedication mean a lot, but people are still people, and we all have our own priorities so it is unfair to say "omg bitches stop whoring. be like me and never leave". that just means that those decision making situations havent happened to you yet. congrats if that never happens to you. I never intended to leave my last company but stuff occurred that made me feel that i should go. My other company shut down forcing the whole lot of us to find jobs elsewhere and i know that the group i worked with then never considered leaving either. i remember the art director asking me about job hopping when i was being interviewed at mythic and i told him the situation, and as i worked there, the more i realized that these situations occur quite often, in many different fields other than just video games.
I havent seen a whole lot of people leave during a project. That occurs after the project has shipped or has been cancelled. Most people float around until they find a company in an area that is right for them. Being real about the situation is all that you have really. Assess priorities and make choices based along those and any other issues that may be involved in your life. all decisons and choices will always have conflict with something and there will always be things beyond your control, it's just a matter of making decisions that allow for as little conflict as possible so that you can live a relatively happy life
-=sigh=-
We miss you too Cochtl. You and your shirts.
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no, tracy has the <cool> shirts.
i have hair
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We miss you too Cochtl. You and your shirts.
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no, tracy has the <cool> shirts.
i have hair
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And the corn chips in your desk drawer.
This is an unstable industry and there are few places where the people in charge either work as hard or care about what they are doing to the same extent as those that take care of the grunt work and pay the price for their mistakes.
It took me a long time to find somewhere that I felt fulfilled , respected and rewarded. I was crazy enough to think I deserved to be well treated for my abilities and finding
someplace crazy enough to do so took a fair amount of pitstops.
[EDIT] Oh and I changed job every year for a while too though I'm just coming up on 3 years with Epic now.
I don't think regularity of job change will turn a company off if there's a clear reason behind each.
r.
Money is something you should always be able to talk about with whoever is responsible.
I think everytime you move (unless it's a VERY obvious career boost) you lose everything you worked for at that place, it's not all materialistic. There's credibility, recognizion etc. that in a 'normal' place, will help with your salary and position over time.
It kinda feels like resetting or just setting back your position for a few bucks more right NOW.
I sure don't miss being told what to do and how to work thinking, 'gosh, this could be so much better and done so much smarter'. I don't miss having to do a concept for every little idea i have and having to justify it and run it up a command chain either.
I pick what i want to work on, I do, redo, or change anything i want without being questioned.
I tell everybody how to work and what they should be doing and redoing and what not. I give people work i believe they like to do and are good at, trying to get the better of all their skills, all to meet my personal twisted quality ideals.
I get every engine feature i ask for, even if it means a ton of programming work, planningand changes, that alone makes your job so much more fun, you think something would be really cool and help the look or make your life easier ? you get it, your word for it being good enough.
I think those are all perks you hardly experience moving around, You probably don't miss them if you never had them, but they are usually there if you stick around long enough.
And they are worth more than 10k more a year (well, depending how much you currently make)... and the difference might be covered with bonusses or raises, if not now, in time as recognizion of your value and work.
It doesn't really help if you think you're awesome and deserve more money and privileges. If you never stick around long enough to let those qualities be seen, they'll never do anything for you.
Being a good artist makes you a good grunt, those qualities can be easily seen in a portfolio, people will match and beat your current salary to some extent to get you.
Being a competent and inventive character on top of that makes you very hard to replace and worth so much more, but those qualities need to be given time to be recognized.
When they do tho, most companies will make sure to keep you more than happy with the salary, perks and probably other longer term perk$.
All that stuff has a huge impact on your quality of life at that place, your personal impact on the projects you work on, and quite everything that makes a place fun to stay at.
I don't think you have much of an overview of the industry as a whole due to this though your points about the longer you spend at a place equaling greater rewards is certainly valid.
r.
A good resume only gives you so much of a head start, that's valid everywhere, the rest comes with time.
I've considered leaving DE often enough when the times weren't that good here, and i've had good enough offers to me over the years from companies i'd usually kill to work for, i never had to go fishing myself, but more money alone doesn't really compensate for losing the control and freedom i have now.
edit: Ror, mind to tell Dave ewings he's a noob, he'll get the joke.
Theres a lot of places like that, where it isn't worth putting in your time because the rewards are never going to be high enough to justify the treatment you endure to receive them.
I'm happy to be at a place now where it's worth taking the downs, as well as the ups, I would have preferred to have found that first time around and avoided moving around so much.
I've never actually left one company to go to another, but I've always been aware of the limited time I will have with which to be creative and accomplish something.
That want to have the chance to create something I'm proud of, to have the chance to learn from others, to give something back to the kid I was when I just played games...
that's what has motivated me to keep searching for a place where I could accomplish those things.
Oh and I'll call Dave a noob, any opportunity to wind him up... gladly accepted
r.
and with my current company i also just hit the 2 year milestone .... so i migth not really qualify to reply to this thread .... i just felt like mentioning that not everyone does the company hopping
You have to know the right moment to jump ship, Sometimes its important to just stay a litle bit longer..
WORK! FUN!.
ben
Is the atmosphere right?
Do you get on well with your coworkers?
Are the projects you work on chalenging and interesting enough?
Is there potential for advancement?
Are the hours good?
How stable is the company?
How good is the pay?
I would say that at least 2 thirds of the answers to those questions should be satisfactory to warrant remaining in a job although sometimes its worth sticking arround for only one good answer if its good enough but very seldom is it worth staying for the money, if you can get a good salary in one place there is a good chance you will in other places too. But a good project or great coworkers can often be enough reason to stay in one place.
As for employing I have always felt that the narrowing down of aplicants should be based on standard of work. It is vary rare to find an artist who has a glowing portfolio or demo reel that is unprofessional or unreliable. To do good work takes dedication and proffesionalism, it is these two things that make the difference between "passable" and "outstanding". If someone has impressive work to their credit and has hopped arround a lot they have usually have good reason for it. On occasion you still find the "picky" genius who gets fed up with silly things and hops arround too much but usually they settle just as well as anyone else if they are treated well and challenged with new and interesting things.
Employees SHOULD come first in any company because it is THEIR work that can make or break you but unfortuneately most companies only see the $$$ signs in the bottom margin. Even a lowly ofice clerk or "go to" guy can have a positive influence on a project, whether its making a timely joke to ease a tense situation or simply keeping the coffee fresh and flowing so people feel more pampered. Its not just the gaming industry thats like this, most companies behave the same way, they relly on peoples "drive" and "gusto" to gain position and status to keep their employees in check but at the end of the day its these driven individuals who will cut your throat for an extra coin.
A job should FEEL right and thats whats important.
Oh yeah, if you're being treated like crap then i'd jump ship asap. It just sounds like a lot are just willing to constantly move around for what sounds like a better offer NOW, when a job usually starts to get interesting after sticking there for a few years and you can have a real impact on almost any aspect of the projects you work on, and the terms.
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You must have found a nice place on your first try, because your above quote is exactly how must of us "job hoppers" feel. I don't leave unless I feel like I'm in a crappy situation. It's never been: Oh Em Gee, they have fresher coffee and another 50 cents a paycheck! Gotta go!
There's quite a bit of that "lets hire some n00bs out of school who are good and pay them crap while we crunch them for 6 months and then get the next batch" type attitude going on all over the place. Alot of companies are satisfied with "shippable" art, alot of studios are not increadibly obsessed with quality. Thats a pretty common scenario for a first job for alot of people.
I don't think there's anything wrong with jumping around, i mean if you look at film, there are ALOT of people that have worked for alot of major studios in just a matter of say 2-5 years.
there's also alot of reasons why people would do it, besides more money. You know say you like everything about the place, but you just don't like the kind of games they make, and it doesn't look like its going to change, or projects you care about keep getting cancelled, a bunch of people walked from blizzard when SC Ghost got "delayed". I'd say everyone's got their reasons and its rarely just for the hell of it.
Ofcourse then there's the HR standpoint of lets not hire this guy because he's been jumping around so much, which i think is kind of ridiculous. I don't think jumping around is so much the fault of the people jumping around, but rather the companies they worked for. People have to want to work there, and want to stay there, if they don't, they'll leave, that about summs it up.