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Job Dilema

polycounter lvl 18
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JonMurphy polycounter lvl 18
As some might know, I recently went for a new job, and got it. (Yay)

The reason I started looking for work is that things didn't seem to be picking up at my current studio.

The day I get offered the new job, my current studio gets a nice fat contract crazy.gif

The new job means less responsibility (senior artist as opposed to lead), more stability, pension, possibile private healthcare, a 5-6 hour daily commute costing £450 in rail fares until we can afford to move closer. I'll also be asking my partner to move away from her job and family.

My current studio doesn't want to loose me. Matching the pay, plus a bonus. No pension. 30 minute commute by mountain bike. In the past, the comapny has been less stable. They have made me redundant once, and I came back as a freelancer. The contracts means funds for a year of operating, without any other work coming in.

Of course, if more work does come in, I am well positoned to profit from it. Apart from the directors, I'm the most senior person there.

So, stability, security and one hell of a commute on one hand, a gamble that this is the start of good things with the current company or could all be dead in a year on the other.

Any thoughts?

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  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    5-6 hour daily commute will kill you if you continue to stay that way more then a few weeks. There's no guarentee your new job offer will be there next year either, could be bought up, go under or possiblity of getting laid off... there's always uncertainty..
  • thnom
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    thnom polycounter lvl 18
    I think the biggest thing would be your partner. Do they work? Would they have to get a new job? Is there plenty of work there? If not - would the new area suit her socially?
  • Kevin Johnstone
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    Kevin Johnstone polycounter lvl 19
    I'd go for the new position Jon as it doesn't sound like you have been well treated where you are and whilst that might have been due to the circumstances that attitudes it doesn't speak well of the future.

    The commute sounds impossible though unless you move quickly or they help you to move, financially or something is worked out to get you up there quicker such as them putting you up in employee apartments or something as a stopgap.

    Your partner is the keything here in that if she doesn't fancy it, you have to find out now and talk it through.
    Either this chance is worth more to you, or she is and I expect your past experiences will complicate this issue too.

    The big moves always cost more, but thats the balance thats struck between settling for less, or risking more to have more.

    Well that's how I would look at it.

    You're young, no kids attached, you've still got some time to hunt for the promised land.

    r.
  • Toomas
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    Toomas polycounter lvl 18
    Do you really want to spend 1/5 of your day in a train?
    It will destroy your social life, 8 hours you sleep, 8 you are at work and 6 in train = 22 hours so it leaves you whopping 2 hours for everything else.
    2 hours is not enough so you propably start to sleep less and that will turn you into a zombie - you look like shit you feel like shit and you cant get shit done.
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    5-6 hours on a train every day just sounds crazy. if they're prepared to match the pay at your current place, personally i'd stay there for the time being.
    8 hours work and 8 hours sleep per day leaves 2 hours free for your own time after that commute. IMHO it's not worth it.
  • JonMurphy
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    JonMurphy polycounter lvl 18
    Dekard - agreed with the commute. I used to do a Sheffield to Derby run that was 3-4 hours (on a good day), and that would be draining.

    thnom - Socially, we are into the same things. There is a good goth scene in Birmingham, which is half an hour away. As for work, there weren't any available positions in her choosen field when she checked at the weekend, but I'm sure that work would be available.

    Ror - In a way, it has been circumstances beyond their control. This contract has been going back and forth since December. As far as I know, the directors have never taken a regular salary from the company, all money going to costs of the studio and staff. I've been working on a reduced freelance rate to help them get through this and secure this contract, and now it's here...

    Yep, past experiences do colour my feelings in asking my partner to up sticks and move. She does tell me that my career is more important, but I think her hapiness has just as much say.

    God willing, no kids attached is how it will stay wink.gif
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    I joined a company when it was young and got the oportunity to have shares / run half of it about a year into the job. Which I turned down to follow my dream of moving far far far away.

    In hindsight, if I had more ties to the place, I'd of stayed.

    I did click stay on this poll, but then realised you're in Bristol, which I consider to be a shit hole. There's enough bullshit design agencies there to fill half of the UK, coming and going once a week. Bristol is the mecca of the westcountry, time to move on.

    Can I re-vote? smile.gif

    I'm guessing it's not london you're commuting to, but if you got the chance to work there I'd suggest it. As it's a world away from crappy Bristol.
  • Rick Stirling
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    Rick Stirling polycounter lvl 18
    Check your email.

    It's the old thing - when you are going, then they offer more money, and had you not been leaving they wouldn't have done.

    I think you ar a lot more secure at the moment and can take the risk.
  • AstroZombie
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    AstroZombie polycounter lvl 18
    I would go with the new position but if you decide to stay where you are I would make them give you everything in writing so they don't back out once you turn down the other offern.
  • Jeff Parrott
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    Jeff Parrott polycounter lvl 19
    You should never take more money and stay. Most places you'll be the first one to be let go. It's a tough decision, but stick with your original feelings.
  • JonMurphy
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    JonMurphy polycounter lvl 18
    Hawken - so you know of the [_] mailing list? The new role is in Coventry.... which, compared to to Derby, is an improvement. They have torn down a lot of Broadmead in Bristol recently. smile.gif

    Cheers, Rick.

    Thanks for all the advice so far. Long chats with the missus, too, and family. All very 'errr'
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    seems to me your old place is paying a lead as much as you could get at another place as a senior without the added responsibility? then it's time to move on, i guess.

    do not commute 5-6 hours daily, that will bring a lot of problems. instead, rent a place close to work for the time being and do the long weekend kind of thing.
    as long as it is only temporary until both of you are ready to move, it will suck much less than communting every day.

    at a previous job, i commuted for three hours daily and it was awful. not to mention frequent delays, especially in the winter. i was stressed all the time and started to hate the train rides. most importantly my mental state didn't do any good for the relationship.
    no time to hang out with coworkers either. bad bad bad.
  • parasyte7
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    parasyte7 polycounter lvl 19
    http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060123/mencher_01.shtml

    Never accept counter offers....they just want to buy time to replace you. You will nver get raises since you didn't show loyalty and pretty much got your last raise when they gave you the counter. Just go and explore the new position.
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    that's kind of weird Hawken. The Bristol / Bath area is widely considered to be one of the best parts of the UK to live in. So not sure what personal experiences you've had to be so against it. I'd much rather live in Bristol than Coventry.

    This is a tough one Jon. I sure as hell wouldn't do that commute, even If temporary. That's a nightmare. Seems to me like youve a lot to talk through with your missus. I wouldn't worry quite as much about accepting a counter and staying as folks here are implying. If they value you, I dont think its as big a deal as suggested. Tricky though, only you know the circumstances in detail. Depends how scared you are about getting laid off. Im sure you wouldn;t have too much trouble getting another gig.

    I usually write a list of pros and cons when Im completely stuck. Good luck! Personally id veer toward new gig, but eesh, that commute!
  • flaagan
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    flaagan polycounter lvl 18
    Hey~! Don't be dissin Bristol, hawken, my family's from there! I've been there a few times, it's not THAT bad a place; definitely much worse areas in the UK you could be living.

    As for the job, while I'm not exactly the best person to be giving advice on such things, I will definitely say a crappy commute will make any job into an absolute pain.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    'There is a good goth scene in Birmingham'

    where are the goths in birmingham he he All I ever see is office workers??
    I lived in coventry for 2 years while working at blitz games BTW. Its a bit rough and the transport is crap,but I have lived in worse places.
    yeah the midlands transport was/is the thing that annoyed me most and coventry station possibly the most depressing station in the uk.

    Has a big cinema ,ice rink, lots of pubs on the plus side.
  • Bronco
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    Bronco polycounter lvl 18
    Hey Jon

    Having been in my new job for exacly 2months now around Oxford id say its the Commute that would be your biggest problems.(apart from the family agreements in the first place)

    I take a bus then Train to get to work every morning,all up I travel 3.5 - 4 hours a day,but im wondering how will you get to the new place?


    I wouldn't trust the trains,Im lucky in that I only go one station up the track,but one of our most popular workers at the office is leaving becuaes he needs to commute daily from outside Reading to Hanbourgh,the jouney should (in theory) take 1.5 hours tops,with 3 changes but he frequently takes over 2 hours just becuase of delays.

    The final Straw for him came afew weeks ago when Engineering work over the weekend drifted into Monday at Banbury and no Train was going further North than Oxford,people travelling to Manchester,Edinburgh etc had to go on a huge detour to Worster and Forgate Street before getting connections North.His train although not on the effected line wa salso Cancelled so he wa sstuck in Oxford for over an hour and a half. He spends over 300 pounds a Month on the Railways...for what we both concider a crap service.


    Alot of trains are delayed frequently.

    also id be weary of fatigue,after the initial few months are over,the tarvelling will be the killer. The 4 hour jouney hasn't got me yet,but its only been 2 months and I stop off to meet friends and go to pubs along the route home which makes it feel shorter.

    Hope this helps and Good luck

    John
  • JonMurphy
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    JonMurphy polycounter lvl 18
    Ruz - Have you not seen the Oasis shopping arcade? Or around Edmonds No. 8 (Eddies) on a Saturday night? Unless things have changed. It's been a while since I made an excursion.

    As for the choice... I decided to stick it out in Bristol. I've made so many sacrifices to get to this point, to walk away just when the pay-off arrives... Taking a pessiistic view, if it only lasts a year, then that is still another year on my CV as lead artist, with a few more titles under my belt.

    But I must push myself. I really need to get my Maya/XSI skills up to what I know in MAX, and get more hi poly stuff done, so if things do go belly-up, I have a much more rounded portfolio. Having a career with nearly constant racing games will kind of limit what employers will think I can do. It's just a shame that all this took my focus away from the Dominance War compo frown.gif
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    a year can pass very quickly at a desk, doesn't sound too bad.
  • saturnfive
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    saturnfive polycounter lvl 18
    Sounds to me like you made the right decision. What Bronco said is quite right. I've just left a good job in South London because of the commute (nearly 2hrs each way). In the end it is doable for the short term (3-6 months) but leaves you with no time to live and puts a strain on your relationship until something gives.

    The unreliability of public transport in the UK is the last straw. The more connections you have, the worse it gets as delays compound. It seemed like there was some problem / delay somewhere on my journey almost every day.

    As for getting pigeonholed with the racing set, I wouldn't worry too much as it really is the skills that count, but broadening those, as you say, won't do you any harm. Good luck!
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    That Gamasutra article doesn't seem to consider that a good idea, it claims you won't keep the job for more than six months, when management manages to find a replacement for you that did not make any efforts to defect yet. IOW, you're fired, you just don't know it yet.

    I'd say you've boarded the train, now you can't run back on the platform. Of course renting a small apartment near your workplace is mandatory if you'd face a commute of more than one hour per direction otherwise.
  • JonMurphy
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    JonMurphy polycounter lvl 18
    KDR - that might have been the case in a larger company, but the circumstances here were different. I only starting looking to cover my back in case this contract come through, and I admit I was getting very jittery when the last proposal got knocked back by Sony. Hell, even the boss was thinking about calling it a day and getting work elsewhere. I don't think I could be considered disloyal given the MUCH reduced freelance rate I have been giving the company to help them secure the contract.
  • Downsizer
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    Downsizer polycounter lvl 18
    Take it from someone who has a 2-3 hour commute every morning. It's going to affect you mentally to a degree you wont be able to tolerate. You would be better off getting an extended stay hotel or renting a room than spending money on the rail transportation.
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    "IOW, you're fired, you just don't know it yet."

    LOL!

    Whilst Gamasutra say it may not be a good idea KDR, and they might largely be correct, that doesn't necessarily mean thats how it is for Jon! You dont know his particular complex circumstances. I know a butt load of people that let EA know ( either directly or indirectly ) that they had counter offers from other companies eons ago and yet they stayed and it worked to their benefit and and they're still hired.
    Crazy as it sounds, Jon might even have a boss where he works that actually cares more about his personal happiness than corporate loyalty. That *is* actually possible ya know.

    Best of luck Jon! Glad you reached a conclusion.
  • headengine
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    headengine polycounter lvl 18
    Dude, don't know you but I know whatever choice you make (or have made) your missus and family are as vital as your work over the long term.

    I've made many sacrifices in my career, for my career - but thankfully with the backing of my girlfriend, now wife, (and now parent, we have 2 little ones)

    I commute 3.5-4 hours a day as I live 55 miles from work. I don't see my kids mon-fri, and it sucks. But I have a great job and work with great people on cool projects, and its stable. So its a bit of yin/yang.

    We're going to move closer to work in the fullness of time. In the meantime, I'm away to work at 6am every day and get home after 7pm. I think its worth it - but by god am I tired come friday.

    You'll do whats best dude - my choice would be to go the new place, but what do I know... wink.gif Best of luck whatever you decide.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    yeah i commuted from north london to leamington spa for 3 months. I didn't actually mind it. I got up at 5 am and got home at 8-30 pm.
    No wonder people thought I was bit cranky there he he. suffice to say it didn't work out there. anyway good luck, you had a close escape form coventry there:)
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