America....F*CK YEAH!
polycounter lvl 18
Taken from Cnn.com: (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/05/scene.blog/index.html)
Rescue 'ticket'
Posted: 6:24 p.m. ET
CNN's Drew Griffin in New Orleans, Louisiana
I am stunned by an interview I conducted with New Orleans Detective Lawrence Dupree. He told me they were trying to rescue people with a helicopter and the people were so poor they were afraid it would cost too much to get a ride and they had no money for a "ticket." Dupree was shaken telling us the story. He just couldn't believe these people were afraid they'd be charged for a rescue.
If this does not get your blood boiling then you are not even human. Let's see you spin that shit!
Rescue 'ticket'
Posted: 6:24 p.m. ET
CNN's Drew Griffin in New Orleans, Louisiana
I am stunned by an interview I conducted with New Orleans Detective Lawrence Dupree. He told me they were trying to rescue people with a helicopter and the people were so poor they were afraid it would cost too much to get a ride and they had no money for a "ticket." Dupree was shaken telling us the story. He just couldn't believe these people were afraid they'd be charged for a rescue.
If this does not get your blood boiling then you are not even human. Let's see you spin that shit!
Replies
Barbara Bush, the former first lady, courted controversy by pointing out that many of the people forced out of their homes by Hurricane Katrina "were underprivileged anyway". Mrs Bush, who joined her husband, George, on a tour of the Houston Astrodome, said: "And so many of the people in the arena here were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them. What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality."
I'm with you pogonip. I was about to write exactly what you just said untill i read your post.
Bahh just read pogonip, right on.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.impact/index.html
People that want to live in a sewer just to protect their possessions are out of their minds IMO.
a) too sick/old/young to evacuate
b) wanted to stay behind and loot
c) too stupid
They had 2 days. Any normal healthy person could have WALKED out of New Orleans if they really needed to. All this stuff about being too poor to leave just doesn't wash with me. There have been times in my life when I didn't have the change to ride the bus, but I still would have gotten out of the way for a catagory 4 hurricane.
So, while I agree that some people may have only experienced ER type situations, an alternate explanation would be that the people who stayed are just plain stupid, and liable to say anything whatsoever.
...it's like 500-800 dollers at least if you need to be taken to the emergency room just for the ambulence ride...
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$500?? Try $5000, pogonip. It's really quite stupid.
I want to hear what the armed holdouts think they're gonna do if they can steer clear of the Guard guys. Do they plan to rule a drowned kingdom of toxic sludge and typhoid? "I'm the King of New York! I am A-Number One!"
Vassago: Trust me, it's $500-800 for the ambulance, its the week in the hospital that'll run you five grand. My daughter racked up half a million dollars this summer, trust me.
Hawken: The ambulance ride is free, but how about those taxes??
/jzero
However, you'd think that getting stuck with a bill that you'll probably never pay anyway would get overridden by the desire to live. That is the problem, these people think that they are going to survive down there.
What does get my blood boiling, is those armed holdouts shooting at rescue copters so they can "rule over the cesspool".
On a capitalistic note, Hollywood must be drooling over the made-for-tv-movie possiblities of all of this. I'll wager each major network has at least one movie out before 2006 is over.
What does get my blood boiling, is those armed holdouts shooting at rescue copters so they can "rule over the cesspool".
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Yet, if you listen to alot of rescuers comments, this media fear hindered their own efforts as the curfew fucked people over who needed rescuing. How many more people have died because they couldn't hold out another day?
So what did we do instead? We have this curfew to shoot anyone out past 6:00pm. The solution is worse than the problem was!
Looting and raids were a small part, and its a shame that anyone would focus on this for their argument crux versus the thousands that were and are in dire need of help. Besides, I would have fucking looted myself to survive if stuck down there.
Wanna play the blame game? I blame all you souless jackasses who say, they shouldn't have stayed behind. You incommapssionate pieces of dog excremnent. that is BEYOND THE DAMN POINT! Can you right now, walk away from everything you have, now knowing for sure that this time, THIS storm, would devestate everything. Hell, the floods did more damage then anything else. Is it so wrong that peoiple put their faith in the fact that local and federal government would protect them by maintaining the levees? That is why we put people into office...to create the infrastructure for these very same events!
Well, shit, if I had known half of the stuff about the region that I know now, I sure as hell wouldn't live there. But hey, I live in Northern California...the home of the big one...what do I know?
The city ran on public transportation, people who couldnt afford cars, who took trolleies to work, rode bikes, WALKED, weren't given transportation out...what, were they supposed to walk the hell out before the rain started? EVERYONE involved dropped the damn ball and it is sickening and disheartening to know that all I can do is watch the whole damn thing unfold on the TV. Oh, wait, I can donate to the Red Cross (which is over 200 million at this point) but what the hell, they are all turned away fronm the border.
If a kid or adult, in front of your very eyes, was SLAMMED by a car while riding a bike AND they weren't wearing a bike helmet....you're telling me you WOULD JUST STAND THERE AND SAY "OH WELL, THEY KNEW THE RISK, THEY CHOSE NOT TO WEAR A HELMET!" you are a fucking bastard.
I am not calling anyone specifically out on these boards, I am saying that if YOU, YOU, or YOU, even think of saying "they stayed behind" then you are off your damn rocker. Go out and live int his world...then let's hear what you have to say. Bastards.
in the UK it's free, suckers.
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<font color="red">COMMUNIST!!!</font>
Well, shit, if I had known half of the stuff about the region that I know now, I sure as hell wouldn't live there. But hey, I live in Northern California...the home of the big one...what do I know?
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So am I, So, do you have your cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew, Greenbeans and corn? Do you have your two flats of Black Mountain bottled water? Do you have blankets, a ground sheet, and a surplus pup tent? Do you have a radio, either Wind up, or battery operated? We were taught in highschool that because of "The Big One", one should have around the house a way to live "independantly" (or camping) for 7days as the bridges would be gone, and no one could get to you at least for a week. And this was inthe 80's. I have all of the above, including a small Swedish Alcohol burning stove, and various rifles and handguns, So I'm prepared. being prepared isn't that expensive, for the basics, but it is smart.
as to the basic post. I can sort of see where the victims are coming from, but itstill speaks more of the terrible education system there, than anything to do with the victims, or the rescuers.
Scott
They knew for 50 years or more that the levees wouldn't withstand more than a category 3 storm. Plenty of larger than category 3 storms have veered just away from them over the years.
The bottom line is, the local and state government played "Russian Roulette" for years and now they've had a catastrophic event. Now I don't profess to know if they tried to address it and didn't have the funds, and I am not going to talk out of my ass here and claim I know something I don't. The only thing I do know is, that the levees weren't exactly in the headline news until they broke. I don't live in Louisianna, so I don't see what their local papers and news stations have been saying in the years past. They talk NOW of the money being recently cut, but what the fuck have they been doing all along in years past with the money knowing full well that the levees were not strong enough for a major storm? Were they asking for more money to upgrade them from the Federal Government and being denied? Were they exploring other means of generating revenue for this? That's what the fuck I want to know.
If we are going to play fucking blame games, then we need to find THAT SHIT OUT.
As far as the rescue efforts, none of us that I know of REALLY knows anything of what is really going on other than what the media is feeding us. I'm hoping in the aftermath, cooler heads prevail and a non-partisan look into what went wrong or right can help plan for future such events.
"What happened this year was typical: Local levee and flood prevention officials, along with Sen. Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.), asked for $78 million in project funds.
President Bush offered them less than half that $30 million. Congress ended up authorizing $36.5 million."
No one took it seriously. The money should have been spent.
The Governor declared a state of emergency on August 26th!
Here is the OFFICIAL document from the state's own website:
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=973
They asked for Federal aid THAT SAME DAY! They were left to fend for themselves. The system is broken. Do some research before you start rambling on about shit you don't know about.
"I am not going to talk out of my ass here" HA!
mrrogers: He's saying that the problem was known for 50 years and two years ago they started figuring out that "hey, our levees couldn't withstand a lv.3 hurricane, perhaps we should upgrade?". Never mind the plans didn't include fortifications against anything above lv.3.
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I figured that pretty much flew right over his head judging by his reply
He either didn't read your post and just knee-jerked, or was just so empassioned that it didn't matter if you made sense or not.
That and Bush is such an easy target for everybody these days, its hard not to take that pot-shot.
What people need to realize is that Bush is not the problem. He is a symptom of the problem. Our system is fucking broken. It is this same system and nation who elected this guy for a 2nd term, even after the supposidly "stolen" 1st. This country needs MAJOR social reform or revolution.
What people need to realize is that Bush is not the problem. He is a symptom of the problem. Our system is fucking broken. It is this same system and nation who elected this guy for a 2nd term, even after the supposidly "stolen" 1st. This country needs MAJOR social reform or revolution.
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The grass is not really greener on this side of the pond, which kinda proves your point that Bush is just a symptom.
As I stated, the efforts that they (aka. local and state offices) tried to make were underfunded from the federal government. All local government can do is provide a plan, make a case, and ask for money when a project is beyond their scope.
It has been mentioned in several articles that yes, actual work just started 2 years ago, but would take 20 years to complete. TWENTY YEARS! So, local knew there was a problem waiting to happen...and federal knew it. They all planned for it. What has all that planning gotten those people. NADDA. Water to the neck. I can't wait for an actual terrorist strike...preventative measures my ass.
Someone close this stupid thread. I should have known that you all would fluff each other off to this topic anyway like so many others.
/me slips away
Lets focus on the hear and now with the current generation. That being said, the ball was dropped big time by the national government.
http://gov.louisiana.gov/New_Stories_detail.asp?id=54
Basically a complaint about tax dollars generated by LA's oil industry being diverted to other states (in support of needed programs) while the wetland project would not receive the funding it needed. The same argument could be applied by substituting "wetlands" with "New Orleans Levees" When it's a maintenance project of the scope of holding back the Gulf, it takes alot of cash - cash that got diverted this year to aid the war effort. I can't verify the source but from accounts I've read, Katrina blew through and then the next day the levees were breached. Sounds closer to the straw that broke the camel's back, not an inevitability. This may be far more complicated than I understand but what it _seems_ like is that there is a direct cause-and-effect: money got redirected from the ongoing levee maintenance project to the war effort and they got caught with their pants down when Katrina blew through.
To me, the argument about local and state authorities being responsible for their own simply doesn't wash - if LA wasn't giving so much of their income to the feds to control they would have plenty of cash. So it's more really LA asking for their money back to take care of their own, which got denied.
The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world. Costs for ambulance rides and hospital visits are insane. And those in poverty would be hesistant about paying a possible "rescue your ass from a rooftop fee". Our health care system is broken. I was going to mention something along the lines of "illegal immigrant mothers and their 6+ children getting free health care and sending hospitals into bankruptcy". But, reading more about it before I run my mouth, turns out that's NOT the biggest reason causing health care costs to rise, but is getting the most blame from irresponsible druggies, er..I mean patients.
The biggest reason is "largely due to the costs of drugs and surgery and a reliance on a medical system that does not treat the cause of disease." People are taking less responsibility for their own health, expecting a simple pill shaped cure for any problem they may develop. "Preventive medicine, rather than drugs and surgeries, should be the foundation for the system." We're obsessed with drugs, and drug companies are spending millions on marketing and raising the price of prescriptions. Malpractice insurance rates are high, and doctors suffering from low workplace moral are using expensive defensive medicine techniques to avoid litigation.
With the disaster in New Orleans, we saw just how unprepared our government was to react. With our medical industry in a downsward spiral, how would we react to a biological attack, or an outbreak? Does our government believe we should wait until it's too late and ask "how could this have been prevented?"
Vassago: Trust me, it's $500-800 for the ambulance, its the week in the hospital that'll run you five grand. My daughter racked up half a million dollars this summer, trust me.
/jzero
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How is she doing?
I racked up a $2,000 ER visist once when I couldn't stop tossin' my cookies for 3 days. I couldn't even keep water down. I was only in the ER for 8hrs, but 2 large later I was out the door. Thank God I have a good health care plan it only cost me $50. it opened my eye to how insane healthcare is. I'm sure if I dont have a healthcare plan in the future I'll just rub some dirt on it and hope it goes away on its own... even if it's a severed limb.
All this stuff about being too poor to leave just doesn't wash with me.
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If you have ever had to transplant your life you'd know how expensive it is. There are alot've things we take for granted.
-To sleep somewhere costs 40 dollars a night if it's a shitty place in a bad or remote location. If you live in the bay or socal, tack on another 60 dollars.
-To buy food in a place that is expecting homeless traffic (of sorts) is expensive. Retailers and service providers always jack up the price in areas that expect a high number of transients. Like truck stop food, or airport food. it's an age-old capitalistic trap. If the demand outweighs the supply then the customer is fucked.
-Have you ever tried to buy food for a week that doesn't require a can opener, heat, refridgeration and something to put it in, or something to scoop it out with? All these things cost money, and they are usually in your home. Think about that. You got fruit that starts to attract flies in a few days and doesnt transport very well without getting bruised. You have crackers and chiops and stuff. Where do you get your protien? where to you get your calcium?
If you leave your life behind u try and take a few things...like pohotos, and birth certificates, and maybe some jewlry, or other irreplaceables. It's not like you can just take cabs everywhere, they usually need an address with a phone to contact you...and even if you could, its expensive. Busses often don't allow people to travel with grabage bags and tons of transient shit.
Being poor is expensive.
-R
It'd probably be best if you could get a military backpack (slightly modified contents, you don't need some of the stuff and e.g. the tents suck for single people) but that's expensive and heavy so I don't expect anyone to seriously do that. Plus you'd need to put some of the stuff that's normally on the bandolier (bottle, spade) into the backpack.
Actually I believe Irritants post is still irrelevant because it relies on a slippery slope. Hell lets go back 100 years, 200 years. Its the settlers fault for building in such a area! No, its the frenches fault for coming across the ocean!
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How mature. Let's just stick to the levees. They were never built to withstand a major storm. This has been known all along, and nobody did anything about it. You'd think after Camille, in the 60's, something would have been done. It wasn't. They thought it would never be worse than that, and they were wrong. See how easy it is to play armchair quarterback? Now do you see my point? Maybe you don't.
So lets just keep pointing fingers while people are dying. How many of you have donated yet? Lets see a show of hands.
How mature. Let's just stick to the levees...
So lets just keep pointing fingers while people are dying. How many of you have donated yet? Lets see a show of hands.
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Levees were discussed plenty in the last thread. Let's stick to poverty and health care. I donated $100. I could have donated more, I can have donated less. But this isn't a contest. It's something.
They were never built to withstand a major storm.
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Of course they were built to withstand a major storm. What they were classified to withstand is a level 3 hurricane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_of_hurricane_risk_for_New_Orleans
Katrina was a class 3 hurricane by the time it got to New Orleans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
The levee system withstood the hurricane and then failed the next day.
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A category 5 hurricane directly striking New Orleans was calculated to be a one in 500 year event by the Army Corps of Engineers
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Oh and I donated blood. How much blood did you donate? How much money is that worth? Does that beat however much you donated?
What's that? The most we get for 99 cents here is a tiny hamburger.
A category 5 hurricane directly striking New Orleans was calculated to be a one in 500 year event by the Army Corps of Engineers
Well, it'd surprise me if there was any New Orleans left to get hit by a second one...
BTW, I never asked how much. It doesn't matter.
If I might make a suggestion for those thinking of donating, please consider the Humane Society for the rescue of abandoned pets.
Whopper is the largest hambuger bun size offered by Burger King. They had them for 99 cents down here in the south for about 5 years... not anymore though
http://www.lafd.org/eqhbtext.htm
http://www.lafd.org/ostrich.pdf
Scott