Capt America

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

I have been working on this guy for about a week, a few hours a day when I have time. I am a little conflicted because I was inspired to start this model after looking at another thread about cap. Since that thread is starting to cool down I figured it was safe to post. I wanted to put a bit of an older era spin on him instead of spandex. I still have a bunch of texture work to do (lots of wasted space) and the mesh is still so-so. I don't know when I will get time to work on it so, here it is...

(100% self illum)
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1527 tris, 1 512x512, roughly 16hrs

jzero · Jun 2005

Hmmm, looks like he's about 9 heads tall. I guess you were trying for stylized, but he just looks all ballooned and strange. Did Cap sport a biker-handlebar mustache anytime recently, and I missed it?

Those things on the side of his cowl are supposed to be wings, not horns, BTW. And if you weren't aware, the current trend is to make Cap have a kind of scale-mail torso vest. He's supposedly always had that, but modern artists are actually drawing the scales now. Looks kinda cool. I think that goes along with the combat-boot trend also. But it's optional.

cholden · Jun 2005

The mesh look pretty good, but I think the proportions can be improved.
I hope you don't mind, I changed you image cause it was easier than writing

Here's what I changed:
shortened the chest and pulled the upper body down
brought the arms in and scaled them down
shortened the thighs and lower legs
and pulled up the cranium just a bit

fiart · Jun 2005

Hei vig you started your captain

I think the mesh looks good except for the arms that could use more mork,specially the elbow area.I agree with the above posts, the proportions look strange and the texture needs more work.

sundance · Jun 2005

the moustache looks hideous, i thought the face was borked at first.

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

Looks like the mustache didn't go over well with anyone. I was trying for a 1920's athelete look. I was going for an older era cap, more like what cap "might" have looked like when he first started and didn't have the fancy scale armor, shield. Think of his outfit like what spiderman wore when he was "the human spider", garen gloves and a spray painted spider on his chest.

I agree with the portions, he is stylized but overly so, I will turn those down and make him less lanky.

- I'll try taking off the musctache and doing a different face, one that is more smooth and "all american" like everyone expects.
- Cholden's paint over looks great and I will shoot for that, maybe with slightly smaller feet?
- And of course tweak the holy crap out of the texture. I should have smomething to show early next week. I have monday off and unless WoW gets in the way I should be able to do the tweaks

Thanks a bunch guys

cholden · Jun 2005

Depending on your final game camera angle, sometimes bigger feet is the right way to go, to help the character appear strong and sturdy.
Also, put those head wings on alpha channels. From the front view they are flat on his head, and those little wings are very important to Captain America's profile. Maybe a little bump where his ears go too.

Josh_Singh · Jun 2005

I love what your trying to do here vig. Take a look at The ultimate series captain america. They use a lot more wwII era materials in his costume.
sorry this is all I could find:

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

WoW I really like that. I might push the poly count to 2000 or 3000 and add in some of those details like a helmet, half a gas mask, collar ammo pouches/straps. That is really close to what I wanted to see cap look like. I did some digging and found out that this version of Cap was made into an action figure which I will use as some more referance.

JO420 · Jun 2005

lose the mustache,add 5 oclock shadow if you want facial hair

Wells · Jun 2005

Guess I'm the only one who loves the mutton-chops. Or at least the idea of them, I think they could be rendered more believably.

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

I made some tweaks, added a few things but when I started to do some texture work I noticed "something" was off, but I can't put my finger on it. Can anyone else see it or am I just spending too much time with one model. Like when you say words like braughtworst too many times and starts to sound like an alien word?
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Josh_Singh · Jun 2005

Looking good man. This is actually a model Ive always wanted to make, and you are doing alright. It is a vast improvement over the last model. I would actually like to take a crack at skinning it too if you wouldn't mind.
crits:
bring the waist out a bit, and make the feet smaller, broaden the shoulders.
The texture feels like flat color right now, see if you can get some leather overlays and denim overlays into the texture.
The area where the blue meets the white on his arm isn't on the ref but if you really want it, it should have a bit of depth. If you have the polys go ahead and bevel that edge out.
So far Im liking it.
and im serious about an sdk. I would love to work on this guy in my spare time.

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

The texture is flat color right now, after I made the tweaks I re-unwrapped parts of the model, and tossed out the old skin. I didn't set the texture to 100% self illum when I did the previous renders (Ghost saw different renders than what you see now), I have since replaced them. I still have some mesh tweaks to make and to clean up some UV work then I'll post an SDK later today.

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

Thanks Ghost, you nailed it! It was the feet

I also made the forearms longer and it looks good to me. I won't bother posting new shots until I am farther along on the texture work.

Here is the SDK you asked for.

http://www.vigville.com/forum_images/cap.zip 79k
cap.3ds (mesh)
cap01.tga (512x512 body)
cap02.tga (512x512 head/pouches)

Josh_Singh · Jun 2005

Noice! Thanks vig!

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

on my lunch break I managed to get some texture work done, it's not close to being finished, but its all I could do in the hour I had.
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update below

JO420 · Jun 2005

looking good,one question,why brown gloves and boots? arent they red?

46th Avenue · Jun 2005

Na it looks good, brown gives it the original look and feel to Capt check the bust up above it the gloves are brown there to. One thing i do see is that he needs more emotion in his mouth and cheek area, right now he looks like hes going to jump of a bridge from boredom lol but other than that looks great - 46th

sundance · Jun 2005

need his shield...

46th Avenue · Jun 2005

True that.
I think that you should make it a cross between the one on the bust and the round one, make it curvy (not so flat as the one on the bust) but have the same relitive shape as the one on teh bust.

Steve Schulze · Jun 2005

But isn't he supposed to be able to throw his shield like a frisbee? Surely you'd need a round buckler typed shield to do that properly.

sundance · Jun 2005

he doesn't throw the shield in ultimates during WW2. he only carries it. he totes a tommy gun in his free hand.

MoP · Jun 2005

Considering how bulky and muscular you've made his arms, I'd really suggest widening and bulking out the torso a lot - it looks way too slim compared to the rest of him.
The knees also look too low, his lower legs seem really short at the moment, especially in the side view.
Colours are a good start for the texture.

Fix those proportion issues then get back to texturing, he should look great with a nice texture.

Scott Ruggels · Jun 2005

I wish the accessories looked more like WW2 equipment, but it looks like modern stuff, done without reference. There are a few items off, about the anatomy. Minor, but the back of the thighs ought to be straight. His Lats should be a little more pronounced, making the torso wider. Helmet ought to be a U.S. M1 Helmet. The hips seem a little "tall" as well, and the arms seem a little thick for the torso.

Scott

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

I was using this as a ref for the helmet, is that what you where thinking of or where you thinking ww1? The British had a helmet like this and I have seen cap in it before, but I choose to stick to the standard US infantry helmet for ww2. I can see where it is off on the front, it needs more of a "bill" protrusion and a lip running around the outside?

As for the pouches they are a flat color with very little shading done and zero detail added. I plan on shooting for pouches and straps that look like the ones on the bust Ghost posted, most of that is texture work that still needs to be done.

I took a break from this model to update my website and wrap up some digital paintings I turned into power point backgrounds for a local church. It also helps me to step away from a model for a few days so when I come back to it, I see it differently as I am right now I see things I want to change.

Scott Ruggels · Jun 2005

If you wan't, I'll take some pictures ofa helmet tonight. The reference you hacve is pretty goo, but because of the "pringles chip" line of the rim the actual shape is a bit misleading except in the orthographic views. The Cantee is off, and they did not issue Green webbing until late 1943, befor ethen it was yellowish khaki. The Canteen is the wrong shape I can pass alont photos of that as well Basically I have all the U.S. Army infantry kit from WW2, and can provide reference, like I did for Daz and the German if you like. and the But, they sculpted those two pouches on the shoulder "inside out" from the pouches. the Helmet the Bust is wearing is the current Kevlar Fritz Helment, not the WW2 one.

Scott

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

Pictures of real gear as ref!? THAT would be awesome! No rush on the pictures I won't be able to work on the model for a few days =( Do you know where abouts they carried the canteene or extra clips of ammo? I didn't dig up any ref for the canteene I just went with the fastest thing a cylinder would deform into =P Really I didn't think anyone would notice...

Yellowish khaki straps, I like that better than the green. I think it would blend in better. I'll change that when I get a chance. Is the actual detailing of the straps pretty acruate? Would it be safe to copy those and just make it khaki?

I was also thinking of giving him a backpack and strapping his shield to it, slightly protected by flap. but I can't find any good ww2 backpack ref =( I have a hard time finding photos of the BACKS of soilders, those I do are not wearing backpacs. If you could point me to a site or if you have ref material I would forever be in your debt

Scott Ruggels · Jun 2005

The straps are, but the pouches arent. The Army didn't do Leather, They did Canvas and cotton Webbing. It looks like his gear was what is reffered to as "Rigger Made" equipment, or conversions of made by hacking up and re-sewing Army Canvas gear to make a specialized piece of equipment. (Something like batman's original utility Belt being based on a B.A.R. Gunner's belt, or Cartridge belt.) Okay, give me an evening or two and I can haul the stuff out of the closte, and light and photograph it for you.

Scott

JO420 · Jun 2005

http://www.wgn.net/~ww2imp/

here you go vig,search through that,amazing world war 2 gear site, there isnt anything you wont find here,each piece of gear is photographed sperately and quality is good.

now pimp that gear!

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

WOW you guys are great! Its killing me not being able to work on it... Now that I am starting to get a peak at some of the real stuff I have a bunch of ideas, I don't know if they will all make it in. Let me toss out a few and let me know if they would "fit" keeping in mind he would be a supper solider and might have a mix of stuff to better make him a one man war machine.

1) Full on Medic pac(s) on each side or as part of the back pack. Or maybe just a small first aid pouch/kit on the belt. I am not sure if first aid kits where "personal" and issued to people other than medics? It still might not be too much of a stretch to imagine they made one just for cap?

2) Thompson or B.A.R. over one shoulder. The BAR might be too heavy and not versitile enough? What about a Sterling If I remember correctly it was a paratrooper weapon that could be hung from the belt. Its a british weapon, which is still an ally, but he's cap.

3) Change the boots to get rid of the big pirate/foof look and have more sleak looking boots with the canvas shin guards.

4) Change the pants to be less skin tight and more like pants with some loose folds.

Scott, where did you get all that stuff? Just collecting it over time or have you worked on some ww2 games/mods and picked some of the best kind of ref material (stuff you can hold/wear)?

Scott Ruggels · Jun 2005

Collected the gear over time, and was/am a WW2 Re-enactor, so I have the equipment from most of the participants of WW2, and have Full sets of U.S., British, and German gear, and a mostly full set of Soviet early war gear. the later war stuff is actually rarer. SDom is reproduction, some is original. It's expensive, but I've been fascinated by WW2 since 5th grade. Been picking this stuff up since then.

Scott

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

I manged to get 2 hours of dead time today so I redid the boots and tweaked "some" of the proportions. I mostly concentrated on the boots. I have a feeling I am going to slowly get rid of the stylized/comic book hero look I was trying for when I first started.

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update below

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

I spent 5 hours today knocking out the bags, sterling, and shield. I still have to tweak the arms, helmet and the upper torso before I can re-unwrap and start texturing. I am not sure I will keep the shield & back pack the way they are right now. I can't say I like the shape of the shield, I prefer the round and I think I might change it. Simple max colors applied, 3120 polys.

sundance · Jun 2005

i think the shield should be over the back-pack. it'd look better and that's the way i've always seen it. i'm not so keen on the sterling strapped to his leg. it seems ... well, i can only say 'daft'. it's just... wrong...

Mark Dygert · Jun 2005

It's not strapped to his leg, it will be hanging from either a shoulder strap. Or it hangs from a ring at the back of the sterling designed to be hung from the belt when paratrooping. It kept the weapon in an easy to reach spot so they could defend themselves when they started to get close to the ground. The rest of the time it was shoulder slung. The sterling didn't make its way into service until 1950-ish well after the war. BUT since Cap had access to experimental military hardware, it explains why he had it durring ww2.

I hear ya about the shield. The design I have now would have a metal frame/track between the backpack and Cap, it is open on the bottom. Think of it like an upside down U if you are looking at it from the side. The shield slides into it from the bottom. So its not just loose and he doesn't have to take the back pack off to get the shield. but it does look funky...

sundance · Jun 2005

ah, well, if you're skinning on a shoulder sling, it'll prolly look better...

Scott Ruggels · Jun 2005

Should be using a Thompson or a Sten, , because the Stirling was Post WW2. I would agree in keeping the shield OVer the back pack because you have to think what comes off "first" the Shield, so he can do his thing, rather than have to unbuckle and shrug out of his gear, and then put on the shield while Nazi's are shooting at him? You want to give him medics packs on the side? No Backpack closes with one buckle, Colors good, helmet is not bad. What type of gear do you want me to get detailed photos of, for you?

Scott

Scott

JO420 · Jun 2005

the helmet doesnt give that M1 indentifiable look it has,it is an m1 isnt it?

i think its something in the back which is throwing the look off

also a 1911 colt holstered to his side might look groovy too

Surgey · Jun 2005

Ooooh does kind of look like Ultimate Captain America from his WW2 days. Cool stuff.

Jerome · Jun 2005

thats pretty cool, imo i like a round shield much better.

Mark Dygert · Jul 2005

Scott, I mostly need shots of pouches, pockets buttons zippers and straps/belt(s), and the fasteners that hold them together. Are they normal belt loop/buckle or are they a different type? Also shots of the pants and it would help to know what kind of materials are the pants are made out of? Wool, canvas, cotton?

The shots I am most interested in are of a M1 helmet if you have one. I am interested in side/front views and maybe a few detail shots of the strap across the front/back and the chin strap.

THANK'S A TON YOU SIR, ARE AMAZING!

{edit} I also have a question for you, what are the numbers on the back of the helmet for? Where there different symbols and numbers?

Mark Dygert · Jul 2005

I switched to a round shield, and fleshed out my shield holder/back-pack idea. The shield has a lip around the outer edge that the back most holder ring catches the shield and presses it against the innter most holder ring. The back pack is attached to the back ring. The inner most ring attaches to Cap. I understand that is all confusing as hell for us artist types so I made a small gif to show how it works.

I also removed the medic packs and placed the sterling on the backpack. I still have to track down some proper ww2 back pack ref and get ready to add in some details as soon as I get some pics from Scott. Then I can start unwrapping.

Polycount is 3477

Capt America

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