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topology for subdivide

andy939
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andy939 polycounter lvl 4

hi

I hope you will understand me

I'm trying to create a mouse model.

I made a model base, low poly

then I split the model into a segment, add thicknes, to create grooves between the segments

then i add support loop to get nice smooth grooves, and got some issue

and there was a problem, grooves is noot smooth as i expected.


only what I came up with, is the mesh affter add support loops it is not perfect aligin with top object after subdivide.

so i add som extra loop to make this mesh perfect aligin, but i do not know if is it good wey to do.

please help how to deal with this issue

Replies

  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    wow thank you so much for that explanation

  • littleclaude
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    littleclaude quad damage

    Very nice topology, I will pass this onto my work mate who loves a bit of even flow.

  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    hi

    i'm trying to add detail for wire, but it generates a triangle in the mesh. Evry tutorial always says to model with quad, but right now it looks like triangle is the only way.

    is there a way to model it with quad or can i use triangle when it is needed.


  • Neox
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    Neox insane polycounter

    quadonly is a weird myth that is mostly only valuable in VFX. i think in your case, likely creating a bakeable highpoly, anything goes as long as it shades well. if its a flat surface, ngons or tris are perfectly fine. in some cases (5sided) ngons also shade better on curves than trying to clean it into a quad.

    of cours eif your intention is to sculpt it, in zbrush you'd have to clean out ngons as it can not handle them.

    the rule of thumb would be, if it doesnt deform and shades well, anything goes.


    but if you really, really want to make this triangle a quad, all you need is one edge. its an ugly quad, but a quad nontheless

    if you want a nicer solution


  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    I have to admin 3d modeling is harder then it looks like. Now I trying to add support loops to have nice sharp corner and I have more issue. Why quad only mesh is only in \VFX?


  • Neox
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    Neox insane polycounter

    this specific issue has been tackled hundreds of times in this thread, you'll have to do some digging but it is there

    https://polycount.com/discussion/56014/how-the-f-do-i-model-this-reply-for-help-with-specific-shapes-post-attempt-before-asking/p1

  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    Maybe I am blind or maybe stupid but can't find the solution for my case. I found some similar but they did not help me to solve a problem. the are mostly on flat surface but mine are curved.I

    also read advice in that thread, and I found that higer topology can be a good idea, so I apllyed subdivide before extrude that part and it gave me better quality but still cant get realy nice sharp corner.


    I tryed evrything and dont know what I can do more, only wey to have this nice sharp corner is to have suport loop along the entire model but it generate hard enge on entire model.

  • BagelHero
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    BagelHero greentooth

    The thread is really long, this happens a lot but it would take some sifting to find the examples.

    Try reading through this and see if it helps you.

    What you're seeing makes total sense after understanding how things are subdivided. Keep searching through the other thread if you have time, I know for sure there are some examples that almost perfectly match your shape.


    Also see:

    https://www.artstation.com/blogs/frankpolygon/o7Pg/sub-d-modeling-cylinder-and-rectangle-intersections-fillets

    https://www.artstation.com/blogs/frankpolygon/e72b/sub-d-modeling-cylinder-to-cylinder-intersections

  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    I figured something out, the point is to try to use original edges as a support loop, but for this i need appropriate mesh density.

    So that means my model suck and i need to remodel it a little.


    example, i used 32 edges cylinder, with 64 or 128 edges it would be even better, but workin all time on 128 edge cylinder would be a little hard


  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d ngon master

    that works, there's no pinching or artifacting, which is all that matters.


    "use original edges as a support loop"

    bingo

  • killnpc
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    killnpc interpolator

    i believe so, yes. as stated, if the shading looks good, then its g2g.

    from what i recall when the "How The F*#% Do I Model This?" thread was first created, often the reply to a question was "add more geometry". but, you'd also be correct that the more verts you have, the more difficult it will be to manipulate and control surfaces.

    FrankPolygon's earlier example, of creating a mouse model with contiguous geometry, is an example of planning for the next modeling step or phase, building up the complexity of a model for more control. he first defines the larger form, then positions the seams by its loop placement, then cuts in edge support loops into the loop flow, which allows him to clean up the area manageably with small slides and nudging of verts.

  • welbot
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    welbot discord admin

    Higher topology is indeed the only way to get really nice results. When I want nice tight corners, I actually put one support loop like you have, close to the corner, and then put a second one between that and the original loop. Using 2 support loops at edges will give you beautiful tight corners with no artifacting (depending on the geometry of course, but with shapes like you showed, it'd be perfect)

  • andy939
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    andy939 polycounter lvl 4

    Hi, I'm writing a bit late, but I did rewrite some tutorials and i get pretty nice effect

    And this is how i got this, I realized that subD Modifier need some geometry to work good.

    For example we cen get nice cylidrical shape add subD to 4 side cylinder, but its work better if we have 8 for example

    The issue what i post before resulted from low density of my mesh.

    So I add 1 lvl of subD to my model and clean mesh a little, then I divide my mesh to separate part, add thickness, and then add support loop with bevel modifier what is non destructive method

    And it gives me very good effect.

    My conclusion is that SubD modifier needs mesch which is built with this modifier in mind, if its too low there are some issue like i had before, but also can't be to high because it's harder to manipulate.

    My low poly mesh works very nice without subD, just to add smooth shade play some with vertex normals to get smooth shading on corner and there is.


    Also mesch with even sized quad work the best on curved surface, but get this kind of mesh is a little hard.


    do I think well?

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