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This is stupid (i am). Simple rotate in 3ds Max and pivot issues.

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For the last two days i am looking at the youtube videos and noone covered that.

1. Start new 3ds Max project. Empty one.
2. Draw a cylinder. Example radius 10cm, height 100cm. Select it and select Rotate gizmo.
3. Rotate Z point. Left or right. Cylinder will rotate in place. That's fine i want to animate that. And i want exactly that. That object is rotating in place. (in lack of better description - like drill tool rotate around itself or like earth is rotating around imaginary needle).

4. Now here is my problem. Select that cylinder and rotate it 45 degrees in space. So take X point and rotate +45 (or -45).
5. Try to rotate Z point now?!?! Object does not rotate in place (like drill tool)  anymore. It fly through. Top part is not aligned to bottom part anymore. I am aware i rotated object 45 degrees but how can i make same "inplace" rotation

I have tried everything know this is something so stupid and simple. It must be. I spent two days on scriptspot trying various scripts which does not do what i need.

Can anyone help me? What i am doing utterly wrong? How can i rotate object like in point 3 but object which is rotate under angle? What the hell???

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  • Eric Chadwick
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    Try different rotation controllers. https://paulneale.com/quaternions/

    Tl;Dr? Make a dummy, link cylinder to it, rotate cylinder on X only, rotate dummy on Z only.

    Send beers.
  • seqoi
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    Try different rotation controllers. https://paulneale.com/quaternions/

    Tl;Dr? Make a dummy, link cylinder to it, rotate cylinder on X only, rotate dummy on Z only.

    Send beers.

    Thank you (that was fast). I will try to. It seems so simple in my mind yet it's very hard to do in 3ds max.
  • seqoi
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    Actually even if i link to dummy, then it's wrong again. It fly around dummy...What the...
  • Eric Chadwick
  • seqoi
  • seqoi
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    Ok here is the link



    At the beginning i just (just in case) i am rotating just to show what i want. I want that rotation like in the very beginning BUT under any angle i choose to.

    Then you'll see me rotating Cylinder 45 degrees. Then this rotation type isn't working anymore (drill tool rotation). Then i add second dummy object. I link the two. Whatever object i try to rotate rotation is always wrong..

    What why?
  • seqoi
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    Even if i prerecord and animate Z position, later when i rotate object 45 degrees X my Z animation is wrong, it doesn't rotate around itself anymore - after i rotate object. I am desperate and feel very frustrated for not being able to do such mandatory task...I know i am doing something very wrong. But i don't know what. I lost two days trying to figure it out. Funny and stupid but...i need help.

    I already tried going into Hierarchy, tried to affect Pivot only to no avail.
  • Daf57
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    Daf57 polycounter lvl 9
    Not sure I understand so bear with me - have you tried changing to Local coordinate system? The default is "View" -  see article below for more info.

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-0F3E2822-9296-42E5-A572-B600884B07E3-htm.html


  • seqoi
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    Daf57 said:
    Not sure I understand so bear with me - have you tried changing to Local coordinate system? The default is "View" -  see article below for more info.

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-0F3E2822-9296-42E5-A572-B600884B07E3-htm.html



    Yes i did. I actually saw that article. When i change coordinate system from View to Local then my object behave perfectly when rotating gizmo. However that DOES NOT work on animation itself. Like i said i want to animate it. That "Local" thing works only for repositioning/rotating but it won't translate in animation of my object.

    So if i change this to Local i can rotate it like "drill" but i can not animate it. I mean when i try to animate it by turning/rotating "Local" coordinate system, even though i was turning/rotating "Local" system it still behave and animate everything like i did it under "View" coordinate system - in other words object fly through it does not rotate around itself. Therefore it's not working.

    What am i missing it's beyond me.

    This is all working perfectly until i rotate any object to any degree (like it's shown in gif).
  • seqoi
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    To reiterate my question in different way.

    Open my GIF. See first 10 seconds. And how objects is rotating (let's call it drill tool rotation). How can i retain that rotation (drill) AFTER i rotate object 45 degrees. Clearly after i rotate it - it doesn't behave/rotate same anymore.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Local works for me, in animation. Make another gif showing what happens when you use Local, on a non-zero frame, with AutoKey on?

    You don't need to link to another object. However if you wanted to control the rotation axes independently, then right after you create the "root" object, align it to the "child", THEN link the child to the parent.
  • seqoi
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    Local works for me, in animation. Make another gif showing what happens when you use Local, on a non-zero frame, with AutoKey on?

    You don't need to link to another object. However if you wanted to control the rotation axes independently, then right after you create the "root" object, align it to the "child", THEN link the child to the parent.

    Sure thing. Here just two object. You will see that:




    a: there is no any key frames in timeline whatsoever
    b: only two objects, nothing uncommon.

    1. In the beginning i am rotating in View mode and this is wrong rotation.
    2. As soon as i switch to Local mode i can rotate "rotation object" and "drill object" rotate perfectly with it since it's linked to it
    3. I set key, turn on auto key, i just quickly added some rotational point - i am aware technically this is not the most perfect animation keying.
    4. I move time/frame bar and you see that even though i rotated and animated "Local" mode, it behave like i animate "View" mode.

    I am totally lost this seemed so easy at first yet i am getting bags of frustration.

  • Eric Chadwick
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    That's the controller's fault. Change the rotation controller. I can't remember which. Rtfm.
  • seqoi
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    That's the controller's fault. Change the rotation controller. I can't remember which. Rtfm.

    Believe me i am not lying. I read every god damn article, video or manual subpage i could find for the last two days. Not hour or two, almost 13 hours every day. And i can't solve it.  If i knew what was it i wouldn't ask for help.

    If this is so mandatory like i assumed it will be, why can't anyone pinpoint me what i am doing wrong even after i posted short video which is fairly simple. It's not that i am trying to do something obscure. It's object rotation.

    Yet noone seems to be able to help me out.

    I am still pretty sure it's something trivial, but whenever i try to find solution on my own i am getting forum links with ton of nonrelated stuff. Also a lot of scripts written for pivot thing so maybe it isn't that easy.

    In any way RTFM is not helpful.

    You asked for video. You even said it works for you. I did what you were suggesting. But why is not working for me? I posted every step i do so why can't you tell me what am i doing wrong when you compare my video to your experience?

    RTFM would be if you could tell me what to read. I can't spend two weeks in 3ds max manual to find how to rotate object around itself. That's why i asked and initially explained why i am posting here.

    I really tried on my own. Hopefully you don't mind it asking here for help.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Two solutions in my first reply.

    Either switch rotation controller to not use Quaternion. Or use hierarchy to abstract rotation axes. 

    If the latter, align the parent to the child, before linking. 
  • Eric Chadwick
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    I hope this helps!



  • seqoi
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    I'll try today. Thanks i will let you know. I've found similar issue (practically same) on another forum today. And person suggested what you are doing. It seems very bizarre (to my mind) that after all these years one need to put dummy boxes in scene for such seemingly mandatory operation.

    Note that i am grateful to you i am not complaining to you. It just that it's bizarre thing. Thanks for your help i really appreciate it.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Read the first link I posted. Should give you some background why rotation animation is done the way it is. Once you start animating rotations, you start to realize how complicated it can be, and why there are many solutions to try to solve things. Gimbal lock for example.
  • seqoi
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    Tried it. Your gif is not applicable to my situation i already have object in scene which can't be at 0. However your help is greatly appreciated because just now  i tried to search "Gimbal" on youtube and first video of 3min was EXACTLY what i needed. THANK YOU!!!! I would never search for Gimbal word without you.

    Here is a video btw - forward to 01:52


    You made my day.

  • seqoi
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    And it's working i just tested it. I sincerely wish you happy new year and i salute you for providing me your time and patience.

    Thank you once again..
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Sure thing. You can use that parenting trick away from world zero, it works anywhere. Just reset the drill rotation first, so it is pointing straight up. Make the dummy, align it to the drill, then link the drill to the dummy. Now you can use the dummy to re-rotate the drill to any sideways angle you want, and only rotate the drill itself on its "drilling" axis. Should work great.
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