Jumping from hard surface to sculpting
polycounter lvl 2
Hey guys, I've done hard surface modeling for over a year now, I'd say I'm fairy okay with it and can do most props (i'm not by any means at a level that I would like to be or I'm not calling myself an expert here) and I generally have a decent knowledge of 3D workflow etc.
I've also dabbed a bit in ZBrush but only as a sort of detailing tool. I exported my meshes from 3ds max to zbrush and then worked on details like wood texture, stones etc. so REAAAALLY basic stuff
Recenlty I found myself pretty burned out by hard surface modeling tho and a thought of me being "bored" of it already before I even got my first job is kinda meh so I thought I'd give character sculpting a try.
But the thing is - I have no clue where to begin.
I even bought Marc Brunet's Ultimate 3D artist career guide which has like 16hrs in-depth tutorial on character scultping from scratch but this seems way too complicated for me.
I have no idea how to follow such a tutorial. The things he does are nowhere near reflected by what I'm doing so our results after like 5 minutes of tutorial are completely different and it really isn't something for me.
I want to start with basics. But I'm not talking ZBrush basics but rather sculpting basics. I know ZBrush interface, I know how to navigate viewport, I know how masking works and whats a DynaMesh. I just don't know how to translate that knowledge to actual sculpts.
I would really love to be able to sculpt a head. Just a plain old male/female head with proper proportions and scale and everything in the right place.
Could you guys recommend me any begginer courses? Or where to begin?
I've watched Michael Pavlovich youtube series but when it comes to actual practice and making my own face it's just way too complicated and I don't know how to get similar results. People in these guides do a lot of quick movements without explaining any of it and end up with a nice looking sculpt while I'm just doing random strokes and end up with crap
I've also dabbed a bit in ZBrush but only as a sort of detailing tool. I exported my meshes from 3ds max to zbrush and then worked on details like wood texture, stones etc. so REAAAALLY basic stuff
Recenlty I found myself pretty burned out by hard surface modeling tho and a thought of me being "bored" of it already before I even got my first job is kinda meh so I thought I'd give character sculpting a try.
But the thing is - I have no clue where to begin.
I even bought Marc Brunet's Ultimate 3D artist career guide which has like 16hrs in-depth tutorial on character scultping from scratch but this seems way too complicated for me.
I have no idea how to follow such a tutorial. The things he does are nowhere near reflected by what I'm doing so our results after like 5 minutes of tutorial are completely different and it really isn't something for me.
I want to start with basics. But I'm not talking ZBrush basics but rather sculpting basics. I know ZBrush interface, I know how to navigate viewport, I know how masking works and whats a DynaMesh. I just don't know how to translate that knowledge to actual sculpts.
I would really love to be able to sculpt a head. Just a plain old male/female head with proper proportions and scale and everything in the right place.
Could you guys recommend me any begginer courses? Or where to begin?
I've watched Michael Pavlovich youtube series but when it comes to actual practice and making my own face it's just way too complicated and I don't know how to get similar results. People in these guides do a lot of quick movements without explaining any of it and end up with a nice looking sculpt while I'm just doing random strokes and end up with crap
Replies
I believe the first problem is you haven't really nailed down what you want to be or do in terms of a 3D artist. You've done hard surface modeling for a year now and now you're bored (more on that later). Now you want to do character modeling and sculpting. These are two majorly different areas of expertise that come with completely different pipelines, tools, modeling methodologies, and skillsets. There are clear cases where people can do both extremely well however they usually don't start that way. I would advise to really do some searching as to what you want to do, what you enjoy in 3D art and what you could see yourself putting 40+ hours a week into as a career.
The second issue I see is the one with hard surface modeling. Are you actually bored of it or have you plateaued? I ask this because it's important distinction. Sometimes things can just lose their luster and their initial workflow that we liked no longer appeals to us. This is fine, however a common thing that people mistake this for is actually hitting a plateau in their own art and skills. When I plateau as an artist I believe in my skills at a certain level and I have a rough idea of what we are capable of. Now when something comes along and is potentially difficult there's level of resistance to it. Something about a different concept or a particular shape that just puts a wall in front of us. Some portion of the work that stops us from getting to the next level. These are the times to learn and fail and ask for help. Which is what you're doing so Kudos on that!
So do you believe you've reached a plateau or your skill level for hard surface modeling and the next step is for some reason daunting? If not then it is completely fine that something has lost your interest. The reason Marc Brunet's tutorial is so complicated to you is because character creation is complicated and it will be daunting. Marc has been doing this for a long time now which is why he is able to share the knowledge that he has amassed to people willing to learn.
I strongly suggest looking up Ryan Kingslien's talks and videos about the Artist Ladder and the Valley of the Suck. I believe it will help you. I don't say this to discourage your choices for character art. However just know that you will plateau and hit walls no matter what discipline of art you choose. It's natural it is our job as artists to overcome our own fucked up notions we may carry in our heads and continue our artistic expression. To learn and try and fail and eventually get better at what we do. Now moving on to your request for tutorials.
Get ahold of some anatomy books first and foremost, the most important thing about character art is anatomy. I highly recommend these books.
Classic Human Anatomy: https://www.amazon.com/Classic-Human-Anatomy-Function-Movement/dp/0823024156
Classic Human Anatomy in Motion: https://www.amazon.com/Classic-Human-Anatomy-Motion-Dynamics/dp/0770434142
Anatomy for 3D Artists: https://shop.3dtotal.com/books/3d-digital-art/anatomy-for-3d-artists.html
Practice making heads, arms, torsos, busts, practice proper anatomical proportion and form. This will be the biggest help to you. Zbrush is not so much about the way you make your brush strokes its about why you put strokes in one place and not another why certain areas are bulged out or sagging. Anatomy is hard, character art is hard, hard surface is hard, they are all worthwhile and will be a big pain in the ass at certain points. Keep going at it, keep practicing, keep failing and keep succeeding. Most importantly keep posting your work and looking for feedback. Luckily Polycount is here so that you don't have to do this alone. Don't just trash your headsculpt post it, get feedback and apply the feedback you believe as constructive and worthwhile.
I just came to a certain point in my learning curve where I don't learn as much and as fast as I used to and I think that is the big part of why I want to try new things. I know it's not the best approach but it is what it is.
A few months ago I would look at something and think "there's no way I would be able to model that" where now I look at most real life objects or game assets and I think to myself "I could most likely model that without any bigger issues. It might take a bit longer if it's a bit more complicated but I will do it. End result might not be as great as I'd expect."
The reason I want to try character modeling is because it seems fun and exciting to me. Hard surface - not so much.
I think of hard surface modeling more as a work and less as fun. I'm constantly trying to get better in technical aspects, I research things about baking, PBR, modularity etc. That doesn't really excite me and it started to feel a lot like a chore lately. The feeling might (and probably will) go away in a few days/weeks but for now I want to try character modeling.
I know I won't reach a "first page of artstation" level anytime soon but that's fine. I just want to be able to make cool looking characters for now.
My problem is in the tutorial side of things. When I first approached modeling I just picked a tutorial online, did it - learned some things. Picked another one - same. Picked a more advanced one, struggled a bit - did it. But with hard surface it's MUCH easier to follow a tutorial. Click this, extrude that, chamfer this, connect this. With sculpting it's like watching Bob Ross paint and trying to paint the same thing only your thing looks like it was painted by a 3 year old. With hard surface after following a tutorial you both end up in pretty much the same spot so that's kind of reassuring and gratifying.
I found a 5 part series on making a stylized head on youtube and it is done in real time and isn't overly complicated for now so I'm doing this today. I feel like I need to take sculpting much slower than I already am. Most tutorials are sped up and made by professionals with years of experience so when I watch for example Marc Brunet make a series of 20 small strokes in 4 seconds I try to recreate the same motion myself and end up placing 2 decent strokes and 18 useless ones.
As for books, I found this one earlier today:
https://anatomy4sculptors.com/collections/books/products/anatomy-for-sculptors-understanding-the-figure
and I'm considering getting it later this week.
Will take a look into what you recommended aswell! I've read a lot of articles, listened to a lot of podcasts and generally researched a lot in my 1+ year journey so I know what mistakes to avoid and to pay huge attention to anatomy and form and focus on details later on - so that's what I'm trying to do for now.
90% of the sculpt is done with <100k points in zbrush and mostly just making minor tugs and tucks with the move brush. This is where most beginners fail, and even as a slightly beyond the basics beginner it is still where I fail. Just remember that if you get the basic forms done right in that early stage, your eyes will almost automatically implant the remaining details and the sculpt will look awesome even though it's still faceted and indistinct. So if it's not there just keep working at it until it is. If you don't get this stage done right, no matter how much time and energy you pour into details it will always look off. With humans we are so trained in reading faces almost anybody can spot if somethings not right.
I think it is a mistake for beginners to try to make a likeness sculpt. That is something only very advanced sculptors can do. It will inevitably lead to frustration. I think it's better to focus on creating believable looking humans first, and once you can do that then go one small step further and try to capture some specific sense of character in your humans but still avoid that tendency to go for complete 1:1 likeness. When I say specific sense of a character, I am talking about the scientifically proven way humans (and other apes) can discern the character of another in a mere second just from seeing the face and with a high degree of accuracy. (super interesting studies to read about that if you are interested in that sort of thing.) So maybe you make that general human but then work on giving them a sense of dignity, a sense of nobility, a sense of depravity, a sense of intelligence, and so on just by altering the face, body, and pose. For me, that's where the real fun is. I really like characters.
Of course, if super realistic celebrity models or whatever is your thing, go for it. There is not many people who can do that and they are super popular on artstation and seem to be a way to high-profile jobs. Just understand how much skill and experience it takes to get there.
The work is mostly in seeing, I believe. In addition to your classic text, your tutorials, I highly highly recommend two additional resources. First, a 3d scan and ecorche. 3dsk or ten24 are two websites to get these. This is a powerful "cheat-sheet" that will work like a mentor standing over your shoulder to say, "no, no, the trapezius goes from here to here." I like to put an ecorche insinde my characters so I can see exactly where the muscles and bones would be, then it's not too hard to interpolate from there.
Second is study from real life. If you find yourself fussing over any parts of the human face for instance, seemingly unable to figure out why your model matches all your 2d reference from multiple angles and yet still it looks wrong.... study real life. Humans are all over. You just got to get a little creepy and stare at them. Hehe. Anyway, that helps me clear misconceptions up really fast.
Start very simple. Understanding forms and how shadow and light reveal these forms is key. Proportion and training your eye to see things that you look at every day of your life(human faces) but don't really look at. You need to study these forms and proportions.
Here's a little breakdown from a portrait study I did a year or so ago.
The important thing to note is that I don't use Dynamesh. I work on 40-60K points almost all the way to the end, with sub-div levels being the most important part of the process. This is an old-school Zbrush method long before Dynamesh. This is the problem with a lot of beginners, they jump straight into Dynamesh or a crazy high res and have no clue how to work the forms and start spraying on pores before any decent primary forms have been established.. This leads to frustration and terrible looking blobby meshes with atrocious anatomy. The importance of nailing down the primary forms cannot be overemphasised. Unless I'm doing creatures or crazy caricatures I will always start with a very simple basemesh that has edgeloops that correspond to muscle directionality, i.e: around the eyes and mouth. This greatly reduces fighting against the topology and is much better if you want to create poses, expressions, or morph targets later on.
And when you do move on to secondary and tertiary forms and detail you are still studying these forms all the way down to the directionality of the pores and wrinkles. Another beginner mistake is that they don't study the micro-surface and just spray generic alphas on randomly. Even the tertiary details need to be sculpted by hand and not only be relying on alphas.
But before you tackle any of this, or even try to recreate it I would advise doing fracture study sculpts of facial parts. Just sculpt noses, eye sockets, lips, etc as small isolated studies. don't try and tackle the head all at once.
As for the hard-surface Vs sculpting, I jump between the 2 all the time. Even though I love both disciplines I still like to change it up for some variety or inspiration. Don't feel like you have to be a slave to one or the other.
I've watched Michael Pavlovich youtube series but when it comes to actual practice and making my own face it's just way too complicated and I don't know how to get similar results. People in these guides do a lot of quick movements without explaining any of it and end up with a nice looking sculpt while I'm just doing random strokes and end up with crap
Learn how to draw and Scott Eaton's - Anatomy for Artists.