Home 3D Art Showcase & Critiques

Quantm's Anatomy Study

triangle
Offline / Send Message
Quantm triangle
Hi all,

This post is mainly for my anatomy study and I'm looking for as much crits & tips as possible :smile: So feel free to drop a comment

I've created a "proportion guideline" using zsphere which I can modify as I go. Not detail just something simple and I already see the whole proportion is off lol. Let's not worry about it for now as I'll do adjustment.



The plan is to complete the skeleton system then muscle on top to allow myself better understanding of how the human body is built, aka ecorche.
Of course as a beginner I doubt I can create a detailed one but doing my best and always a good start even it's rough.

So today I'm looking for crits for the skull I've made.



Please comment :blush:

Replies

  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Is this suppose to be Nazca skull or just messed up proportions ?
    Any reason for flat face ,round back and huge orbits ?
    I will suggest to get a better reference material -> images/digital-real skull or download Skull Sketcher

  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    @carvuliero in this case if it's that bad I'd say messed up proportions. Did use reference images either they're bad or I'm bad at following. I'll have a look on Skull Sketcher. Thanks.
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Its perfectly fine , skull is complex subject .You will soon found out for yourself that bone anatomy is much more complex then surface one
    You could look for BodyParts3D_3.0_obj_95 or 99  its not perfect but at least you will have some 3d reference
    If you have free time I can tell you where to get some bone scans but assembling whole skeleton out of misaligned parts take quite a lot of time - carpals and tarsals are real fun can easily waste you a few days
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Thanks @carvuliero for the tips and refs.
    Definitely let me know where I can get the bone scans (assuming I can get them online) :smiley: even thou my current wallet won't allow me to but would love to have it noted on my board
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Its actually free just have to fill long registration form
    To get models out I used adobe acrobat pro and Tetra4D Converter trail versions work but you might find a easier way
    https://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/downloads.html

    Side note :
    You could check this site , it contain a lot of useful reference like x-rays CT/MRI scans ,visible human project slices(just male unfortunately)
    https://www.imaios.com/en/e-Anatomy/Limbs/Lower-limb-Radiographs
    Also getting a good anatomy atlas wont hurt either

    If you don't mind learning from dissection can check link below , you wont find a better way to learn muscle anatomy , actually contain everything but muscle is what I really like
    https://media.pearsoncmg.com/bc/bc_pal/pal31/#!/home

    Side side note if somebody work as front end programer or just know how to do simple 2 page website I can dump a bunch of reference link/book as so on  I have pile during the years so everyone can benefit /ftp will probably do too



  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    wooooow those are awesome refs @carvuliero I love them! The CT scans and dissections are superb. Really huge thanks for providing them it's going to be fun :smiley:

    Oh the Anatomy Ninja game look funny  :D
     
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Refined the skull. C&C would be great :smiley:




  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Do another one
    Id say that you nailed teeth mark but nose and orbit are too big
    Why dont you separate mandible from skull and dig infratemporal fossa
    Back is not round is pentagon shape ,~mid of mastoid process should line with lateral edge of mandible , missing nasal spine ,teeth should bow out  a lot more ,lower teeth arch is smaller then upper one ,~middle of orbit line up with last molar -> teeth width . jaw ramus is diagonal/concave in front view ,nasal bone is not straight  but S  - curved , you could cut some of frontal bone - side view -> skull higher point is either in the middle or 3/4 back , orbit margin is like tilted square with cut corners inside orbit is rounded triangle pyramid pointing inward , ear hole is in the middle of brow - back of skull distance
    Check Frankfort line/plane
    If I may suggest you do Bammes/Li plane skull get the big shape right first
    Look for this 2 books both can be found on the internet , don't need to read German/Russion images are self-explanatory
    Gottfried Bammes - Der Nackte Mensch
    Golova Cheloveka Osnovy Uchebnogo Akade N. Li
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Do another one
    Id say that you nailed teeth mark but nose and orbit are too big
    Why dont you separate mandible from skull and dig infratemporal fossa
    Back is not round is pentagon shape ,~mid of mastoid process should line with lateral edge of mandible , missing nasal spine ,teeth should bow out  a lot more ,lower teeth arch is smaller then upper one ,~middle of orbit line up with last molar -> teeth width . jaw ramus is diagonal/concave in front view ,nasal bone is not straight  but S  - curved , you could cut some of frontal bone - side view -> skull higher point is either in the middle or 3/4 back , orbit margin is like tilted square with cut corners inside orbit is rounded triangle pyramid pointing inward , ear hole is in the middle of brow - back of skull distance
    Check Frankfort line/plane
    If I may suggest you do Bammes/Li plane skull get the big shape right first
    Look for this 2 books both can be found on the internet , don't need to read German/Russion images are self-explanatory
    Gottfried Bammes - Der Nackte Mensch
    Golova Cheloveka Osnovy Uchebnogo Akade N. Li








    Awesome thanks for the crits @carvuliero. I'll be back :) with another one
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle

    Made a new one. Need to move on to the next part. C&C please for my further study :smile:
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Much better you did good for a second try
    Made jaw narrower and teeth cylinder wider


  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Thanks @carvuliero for the tips I'll update on next post :)
  • Mehran Khan
    Offline / Send Message
    Mehran Khan polycounter lvl 9
    I think zbrush comes with  project that has grids and images setup for a skull, so maybe you can use that to improve.
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    I think zbrush comes with  project that has grids and images setup for a skull, so maybe you can use that to improve.
    Thanks for the tip @Mehran Khan never went through Zbrush project folders I'll have a look tonight :smiley:

  • Mehran Khan
    Offline / Send Message
    Mehran Khan polycounter lvl 9
    NP, also try to improve your worklfow to avoid those bulges-like forms (most apparent on top of the nose-brdge), one way around this is to delete the highest-sub-d level and just work with the second-last one . I have noticed that cranking up the sub-d level makes it harder harder to smooth out bulges sometimes. I have perosnally made a note to do all the large forms on very low sub-d levels, than add a couple of sub-d levels for the secondary forms and add a few more sub-ds for the tertiaries/finer details.
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    NP, also try to improve your worklfow to avoid those bulges-like forms (most apparent on top of the nose-brdge), one way around this is to delete the highest-sub-d level and just work with the second-last one . I have noticed that cranking up the sub-d level makes it harder harder to smooth out bulges sometimes. I have perosnally made a note to do all the large forms on very low sub-d levels, than add a couple of sub-d levels for the secondary forms and add a few more sub-ds for the tertiaries/finer details.
    Yes I may as well start to make note on that I do indeed struggle with smoothing things on top sub-d level.
  • Mehran Khan
    Offline / Send Message
    Mehran Khan polycounter lvl 9
    This really helped me on improving the sculpting workflow.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2WPYJfCj0

  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Hi all! It's been awhile and finally I've managed to complete the skeleton. Moving onto next phase I'll start putting muscles on top.







    Welcoming critics for my skeleton model! Hopefully @carvuliero is still around as well :smiley: 
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Yes for good or for bed I am still around
    LoL you actually build whole skeleton, impressive ! Have you notice that he is smiling? most skulls I have seen are kind of sad
    Ok I can see lots of things that can be improve
    Lets start with what you will probably care :
    Proportion and alignment :
    Sternum is very long but its probably because rib cage is not long enough [distance between rib cage and pelvis is around 3-4 fingers in your case vertebrea and a half as he doesn't have fingers to measure with, you currently have double that length
    Tibia and fibula a bit too long -> femur = tibia and fibula + foot
    Hand could be longer a bit
    Leg alignment :
    Line from center of femoral head to center of ankle should bisect the knee
    Fibula is on a diagonal in front view 
    Lower leg have 3degree medial deviation from vertical 
    Looks like acetabulum should be lower -> its below mid point of pelivs
    Arm alignment :
    You are missing carrying angle humerus and radius/ulna have different orientation
    Hand is connected to radius
    Individual things :
    Clavicle shapes in wrong -> thick and round close to pit of the neck and flat and square close to acromion
    Scapula spine is S curve and bottom corner have so width doesn't terminate in a point  ->where teres major originate
    Costal cartilage  pattern is like a vase thin on the top wide on the bottom with S curve connecting top and bottom
    Costal cartilage of 7th rib should be your further most point in side view
    Posterior spinal processes length is questionable -> lumbar section is almost vertical in reality
    Femur condyle and tibial epicondyle need more length in both front side view
    Fibula should be thinner
    Cuboid and 5th metatarsal should be lower -> missing transverse arch right now
    Special request :
    I know its super complex but could you fix pelvis for me please
    Is it me or you spend most of your time modeling individual vertebrae  ?
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Yes for good or for bed I am still around
    LoL you actually build whole skeleton, impressive ! Have you notice that he is smiling? most skulls I have seen are kind of sad
    Ok I can see lots of things that can be improve
    Lets start with what you will probably care :
    Proportion and alignment :
    Sternum is very long but its probably because rib cage is not long enough [distance between rib cage and pelvis is around 3-4 fingers in your case vertebrea and a half as he doesn't have fingers to measure with, you currently have double that length
    Tibia and fibula a bit too long -> femur = tibia and fibula + foot
    Hand could be longer a bit
    Leg alignment :
    Line from center of femoral head to center of ankle should bisect the knee
    Fibula is on a diagonal in front view 
    Lower leg have 3degree medial deviation from vertical 
    Looks like acetabulum should be lower -> its below mid point of pelivs
    Arm alignment :
    You are missing carrying angle humerus and radius/ulna have different orientation
    Hand is connected to radius
    Individual things :
    Clavicle shapes in wrong -> thick and round close to pit of the neck and flat and square close to acromion
    Scapula spine is S curve and bottom corner have so width doesn't terminate in a point  ->where teres major originate
    Costal cartilage  pattern is like a vase thin on the top wide on the bottom with S curve connecting top and bottom
    Costal cartilage of 7th rib should be your further most point in side view
    Posterior spinal processes length is questionable -> lumbar section is almost vertical in reality
    Femur condyle and tibial epicondyle need more length in both front side view
    Fibula should be thinner
    Cuboid and 5th metatarsal should be lower -> missing transverse arch right now
    Special request :
    I know its super complex but could you fix pelvis for me please
    Is it me or you spend most of your time modeling individual vertebrae  ?
    Good thing you're still around :p

    ahahaha that's a long list :D Yes he is smiling maybe due to the shape of eye socket? But hey a smiling skull is awesome.

    Will take my time getting it fixed otherwise I find it pretty hard to build without the actual physical model in hand. I've been using tons of images, scans and 3D medical maps but still struggling.. Pelvis yes I'm neither happy with it. Really hard to nail down the form. Thinking about changing my approach by dividing and simplifying it to basic forms. This one was created from one sphere mesh which I now understand this kind of approach turns out disaster. As for vertebrae I didn't spend too much time they're all copy of vertebrae above with small adjustments in size and form.
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Done fix up. Round 2 critics for the skeleton please, then moving on to muscles.

  • pangaea
    Offline / Send Message
    pangaea polycounter lvl 5
    I would pronate the forearm a bit and make the hands be more relaxed. Its just unusually to have the arms in that position.  
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    You did pretty good job of fixing almost everything , few more things and you can go the the muscles
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Hi all it's been 4 months since and I've been hiding myself to focus on my study. Unfortunately I haven't done my full ecorche model but instead I jumped the gun and did full body sculpt. Althought I won't be posting that yet I am more keen to receive CC for my general head sculpt. My ultimate goal is realisitc/likeness sculpting I hope my basic is not way too far off.



  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    What did you use to end up with this guy ?
    Do you have a handheld  mirror in your house , if you do why don't you use it from time to time ?
    I can see quite a few things that in my opinion can be improve like the neck, cheek bone , eyes[is he suppose to look asian? ], mouth width , ear shape , face to cranium relation , nose mouth connection

  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Sorry should've given more info I'm using myself as reference with handheld mirror and some photos taken. It's not yet final more like halfway thru but gotta put a stop because I've spent too much time on it. I'd like some CC to gauge where I'm at and note to myself. Of course I understand people are different but general landmarks and stuffs like that is what I want to do a reality check on, not exactly feature relationship. As for the neck I haven't really touched it just simply 2 strokes.
  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Is it still you ?
    Eyes has to go back a lot
    Is this really how your ear look like ? if yes Id like a refs
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Is it still you ?
    Eyes has to go back a lot
    Is this really how your ear look like ? if yes Id like a refs
    Doesn't feel like me no
    Didn't utilize much ref images as they all got distortions and I mostly rely on the mirror


  • carvuliero
    Offline / Send Message
    carvuliero hero character
    Almost fool me with that front view :) I was going more generic caucasian , asian ppl have different skull shape [its called cephalic index and more specific brachycephalic ] basically short but wide skull which is more round .That should be the first thing to fix cranium shape then face shape and work from there
    Yeah this images and not suitable for initial block out and taking measurements ,Ideally you want front side and few 3/4 shot with 100mm lens or something similar , if you don't have such equipment probably local photo printing shop can take photos of you or just ask someone to shot you with mobile phone from 2-3 meters with zoom
    Middle right image looks usable but you look much younger there
    Alternatively you could take measurements directly from your head
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    That explains why whenever I use construction helmet it either slips off or I have to make it extremely tight to the point it hurts lol. Althought I know there's differences in skulls between different races plus deviations but really have to be aware of all these things. 
  • Quantm
    Offline / Send Message
    Quantm triangle
    Let's revive this post :smiley:

    Be it showcase, inspiration or for my own record. I present you my skull sculpting journey from start till now (shown in monthly basis in the last 1.5 years). From taking 1 whole week to complete till few hours only. Still a lot to learn and will be continue improving. 

    Gotta admit I burst out laughing when I open my first skull wondering what dafuq in the world was I doing!? I can't even recall having sculpt that  :D:D:D

    By all means big thanks to carvuliero for always giving me crits and guidance!



    And Today 16th Jan 2019

    CC welcome! The more the better!! :smiley: 
Sign In or Register to comment.