Quantm's Anatomy Study

Quantm

Hi all,

This post is mainly for my anatomy study and I'm looking for as much crits & tips as possible So feel free to drop a comment

I've created a "proportion guideline" using zsphere which I can modify as I go. Not detail just something simple and I already see the whole proportion is off lol. Let's not worry about it for now as I'll do adjustment.



The plan is to complete the skeleton system then muscle on top to allow myself better understanding of how the human body is built, aka ecorche.
Of course as a beginner I doubt I can create a detailed one but doing my best and always a good start even it's rough.

So today I'm looking for crits for the skull I've made.



Please comment

carvuliero

Is this suppose to be Nazca skull or just messed up proportions ?
Any reason for flat face ,round back and huge orbits ?
I will suggest to get a better reference material -> images/digital-real skull or download Skull Sketcher

Quantm

@carvuliero in this case if it's that bad I'd say messed up proportions. Did use reference images either they're bad or I'm bad at following. I'll have a look on Skull Sketcher. Thanks.

carvuliero

Its perfectly fine , skull is complex subject .You will soon found out for yourself that bone anatomy is much more complex then surface one
You could look for BodyParts3D_3.0_obj_95 or 99  its not perfect but at least you will have some 3d reference
If you have free time I can tell you where to get some bone scans but assembling whole skeleton out of misaligned parts take quite a lot of time - carpals and tarsals are real fun can easily waste you a few days

Quantm

Thanks @carvuliero for the tips and refs.
Definitely let me know where I can get the bone scans (assuming I can get them online) even thou my current wallet won't allow me to but would love to have it noted on my board

carvuliero

Its actually free just have to fill long registration form
To get models out I used adobe acrobat pro and Tetra4D Converter trail versions work but you might find a easier way
https://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/downloads.html

Side note :
You could check this site , it contain a lot of useful reference like x-rays CT/MRI scans ,visible human project slices(just male unfortunately)
https://www.imaios.com/en/e-Anatomy/Limbs/Lower-limb-Radiographs
Also getting a good anatomy atlas wont hurt either

If you don't mind learning from dissection can check link below , you wont find a better way to learn muscle anatomy , actually contain everything but muscle is what I really like
https://media.pearsoncmg.com/bc/bc_pal/pal31/#!/home

Side side note if somebody work as front end programer or just know how to do simple 2 page website I can dump a bunch of reference link/book as so on  I have pile during the years so everyone can benefit /ftp will probably do too

Quantm

wooooow those are awesome refs @carvuliero I love them! The CT scans and dissections are superb. Really huge thanks for providing them it's going to be fun 

Oh the Anatomy Ninja game look funny 
 

Quantm

Refined the skull. C&C would be great 

carvuliero

Do another one
Id say that you nailed teeth mark but nose and orbit are too big
Why dont you separate mandible from skull and dig infratemporal fossa
Back is not round is pentagon shape ,~mid of mastoid process should line with lateral edge of mandible , missing nasal spine ,teeth should bow out  a lot more ,lower teeth arch is smaller then upper one ,~middle of orbit line up with last molar -> teeth width . jaw ramus is diagonal/concave in front view ,nasal bone is not straight  but S  - curved , you could cut some of frontal bone - side view -> skull higher point is either in the middle or 3/4 back , orbit margin is like tilted square with cut corners inside orbit is rounded triangle pyramid pointing inward , ear hole is in the middle of brow - back of skull distance
Check Frankfort line/plane
If I may suggest you do Bammes/Li plane skull get the big shape right first
Look for this 2 books both can be found on the internet , don't need to read German/Russion images are self-explanatory
Gottfried Bammes - Der Nackte Mensch
Golova Cheloveka Osnovy Uchebnogo Akade N. Li

Quantm

carvuliero said:

Do another one
Id say that you nailed teeth mark but nose and orbit are too big
Why dont you separate mandible from skull and dig infratemporal fossa
Back is not round is pentagon shape ,~mid of mastoid process should line with lateral edge of mandible , missing nasal spine ,teeth should bow out  a lot more ,lower teeth arch is smaller then upper one ,~middle of orbit line up with last molar -> teeth width . jaw ramus is diagonal/concave in front view ,nasal bone is not straight  but S  - curved , you could cut some of frontal bone - side view -> skull higher point is either in the middle or 3/4 back , orbit margin is like tilted square with cut corners inside orbit is rounded triangle pyramid pointing inward , ear hole is in the middle of brow - back of skull distance
Check Frankfort line/plane
If I may suggest you do Bammes/Li plane skull get the big shape right first
Look for this 2 books both can be found on the internet , don't need to read German/Russion images are self-explanatory
Gottfried Bammes - Der Nackte Mensch
Golova Cheloveka Osnovy Uchebnogo Akade N. Li

Awesome thanks for the crits @carvuliero. I'll be back with another one

Quantm

Made a new one. Need to move on to the next part. C&C please for my further study

carvuliero

Much better you did good for a second try
Made jaw narrower and teeth cylinder wider

Quantm

Thanks @carvuliero for the tips I'll update on next post

Mehran Khan

I think zbrush comes with  project that has grids and images setup for a skull, so maybe you can use that to improve.

Quantm

Mehran Khan said:

I think zbrush comes with  project that has grids and images setup for a skull, so maybe you can use that to improve.

Thanks for the tip @Mehran Khan never went through Zbrush project folders I'll have a look tonight

Mehran Khan

NP, also try to improve your worklfow to avoid those bulges-like forms (most apparent on top of the nose-brdge), one way around this is to delete the highest-sub-d level and just work with the second-last one . I have noticed that cranking up the sub-d level makes it harder harder to smooth out bulges sometimes. I have perosnally made a note to do all the large forms on very low sub-d levels, than add a couple of sub-d levels for the secondary forms and add a few more sub-ds for the tertiaries/finer details.

Quantm

Mehran Khan said:

NP, also try to improve your worklfow to avoid those bulges-like forms (most apparent on top of the nose-brdge), one way around this is to delete the highest-sub-d level and just work with the second-last one . I have noticed that cranking up the sub-d level makes it harder harder to smooth out bulges sometimes. I have perosnally made a note to do all the large forms on very low sub-d levels, than add a couple of sub-d levels for the secondary forms and add a few more sub-ds for the tertiaries/finer details.

Yes I may as well start to make note on that I do indeed struggle with smoothing things on top sub-d level.

Mehran Khan

This really helped me on improving the sculpting workflow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj2WPYJfCj0

Quantm

Hi all! It's been awhile and finally I've managed to complete the skeleton. Moving onto next phase I'll start putting muscles on top.







Welcoming critics for my skeleton model! Hopefully @carvuliero is still around as well  

carvuliero

Yes for good or for bed I am still around

LoL you actually build whole skeleton, impressive ! Have you notice that he is smiling? most skulls I have seen are kind of sad

Ok I can see lots of things that can be improve

Lets start with what you will probably care :

Proportion and alignment :

Sternum is very long but its probably because rib cage is not long enough [distance between rib cage and pelvis is around 3-4 fingers in your case vertebrea and a half as he doesn't have fingers to measure with, you currently have double that length

Tibia and fibula a bit too long -> femur = tibia and fibula + foot

Hand could be longer a bit

Leg alignment :

Line from center of femoral head to center of ankle should bisect the knee

Fibula is on a diagonal in front view 

Lower leg have 3degree medial deviation from vertical 

Looks like acetabulum should be lower -> its below mid point of pelivs

Arm alignment :

You are missing carrying angle humerus and radius/ulna have different orientation

Hand is connected to radius

Individual things :

Clavicle shapes in wrong -> thick and round close to pit of the neck and flat and square close to acromion

Scapula spine is S curve and bottom corner have so width doesn't terminate in a point  ->where teres major originate

Costal cartilage  pattern is like a vase thin on the top wide on the bottom with S curve connecting top and bottom

Costal cartilage of 7th rib should be your further most point in side view

Posterior spinal processes length is questionable -> lumbar section is almost vertical in reality

Femur condyle and tibial epicondyle need more length in both front side view

Fibula should be thinner

Cuboid and 5th metatarsal should be lower -> missing transverse arch right now

Special request :

I know its super complex but could you fix pelvis for me please

Is it me or you spend most of your time modeling individual vertebrae  ?

Quantm

carvuliero said:

Yes for good or for bed I am still around

LoL you actually build whole skeleton, impressive ! Have you notice that he is smiling? most skulls I have seen are kind of sad

Ok I can see lots of things that can be improve

Lets start with what you will probably care :

Proportion and alignment :

Sternum is very long but its probably because rib cage is not long enough [distance between rib cage and pelvis is around 3-4 fingers in your case vertebrea and a half as he doesn't have fingers to measure with, you currently have double that length

Tibia and fibula a bit too long -> femur = tibia and fibula + foot

Hand could be longer a bit

Leg alignment :

Line from center of femoral head to center of ankle should bisect the knee

Fibula is on a diagonal in front view 

Lower leg have 3degree medial deviation from vertical 

Looks like acetabulum should be lower -> its below mid point of pelivs

Arm alignment :

You are missing carrying angle humerus and radius/ulna have different orientation

Hand is connected to radius

Individual things :

Clavicle shapes in wrong -> thick and round close to pit of the neck and flat and square close to acromion

Scapula spine is S curve and bottom corner have so width doesn't terminate in a point  ->where teres major originate

Costal cartilage  pattern is like a vase thin on the top wide on the bottom with S curve connecting top and bottom

Costal cartilage of 7th rib should be your further most point in side view

Posterior spinal processes length is questionable -> lumbar section is almost vertical in reality

Femur condyle and tibial epicondyle need more length in both front side view

Fibula should be thinner

Cuboid and 5th metatarsal should be lower -> missing transverse arch right now

Special request :

I know its super complex but could you fix pelvis for me please

Is it me or you spend most of your time modeling individual vertebrae  ?

Good thing you're still around

ahahaha that's a long list Yes he is smiling maybe due to the shape of eye socket? But hey a smiling skull is awesome.

Will take my time getting it fixed otherwise I find it pretty hard to build without the actual physical model in hand. I've been using tons of images, scans and 3D medical maps but still struggling.. Pelvis yes I'm neither happy with it. Really hard to nail down the form. Thinking about changing my approach by dividing and simplifying it to basic forms. This one was created from one sphere mesh which I now understand this kind of approach turns out disaster. As for vertebrae I didn't spend too much time they're all copy of vertebrae above with small adjustments in size and form.

Quantm

Done fix up. Round 2 critics for the skeleton please, then moving on to muscles.

pangaea

I would pronate the forearm a bit and make the hands be more relaxed. Its just unusually to have the arms in that position.  

carvuliero

You did pretty good job of fixing almost everything , few more things and you can go the the muscles

Quantm

Hi all it's been 4 months since and I've been hiding myself to focus on my study. Unfortunately I haven't done my full ecorche model but instead I jumped the gun and did full body sculpt. Althought I won't be posting that yet I am more keen to receive CC for my general head sculpt. My ultimate goal is realisitc/likeness sculpting I hope my basic is not way too far off.

carvuliero

What did you use to end up with this guy ?

Do you have a handheld  mirror in your house , if you do why don't you use it from time to time ?

I can see quite a few things that in my opinion can be improve like the neck, cheek bone , eyes[is he suppose to look asian? ], mouth width , ear shape , face to cranium relation , nose mouth connection

Quantm

Sorry should've given more info I'm using myself as reference with handheld mirror and some photos taken. It's not yet final more like halfway thru but gotta put a stop because I've spent too much time on it. I'd like some CC to gauge where I'm at and note to myself. Of course I understand people are different but general landmarks and stuffs like that is what I want to do a reality check on, not exactly feature relationship. As for the neck I haven't really touched it just simply 2 strokes.

carvuliero

Is it still you ?

Eyes has to go back a lot

Is this really how your ear look like ? if yes Id like a refs

Quantm

carvuliero said:

Is it still you ?

Eyes has to go back a lot

Is this really how your ear look like ? if yes Id like a refs

Doesn't feel like me no
Didn't utilize much ref images as they all got distortions and I mostly rely on the mirror

carvuliero

Almost fool me with that front view I was going more generic caucasian , asian ppl have different skull shape [its called cephalic index and more specific brachycephalic ] basically short but wide skull which is more round .That should be the first thing to fix cranium shape then face shape and work from there

Yeah this images and not suitable for initial block out and taking measurements ,Ideally you want front side and few 3/4 shot with 100mm lens or something similar , if you don't have such equipment probably local photo printing shop can take photos of you or just ask someone to shot you with mobile phone from 2-3 meters with zoom

Middle right image looks usable but you look much younger there

Alternatively you could take measurements directly from your head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7rDMio21pY

Quantm

That explains why whenever I use construction helmet it either slips off or I have to make it extremely tight to the point it hurts lol. Althought I know there's differences in skulls between different races plus deviations but really have to be aware of all these things. 

Quantm

Let's revive this post

Be it showcase, inspiration or for my own record. I present you my skull sculpting journey from start till now (shown in monthly basis in the last 1.5 years). From taking 1 whole week to complete till few hours only. Still a lot to learn and will be continue improving. 

Gotta admit I burst out laughing when I open my first skull wondering what dafuq in the world was I doing!? I can't even recall having sculpt that 

By all means big thanks to carvuliero for always giving me crits and guidance!



And Today 16th Jan 2019

CC welcome! The more the better!!