Critique on proportion and form

Fraktayne · Nov 2018

Hi there new guy here,

So I've been playing around Zbrush for a few months now and I've been focusing on form and proportion.
I'm self learning right now so I don't really have anyone to ask for constructive critique,
I hope this is the right place to ask for some.

P.S. The toes are in a separate sub-tool because when I use Dynamesh the toes just becomes a mangled mess also, How do you do hair?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/80/m69961woq01a.png

carvuliero · Nov 2018

Anything else to add about your model ,how did you end up with female with small feet ? did you use any proportional system/chart or other time of reference ?

Note : I have to use heavy manipulation of the gif so its far for perfect ,use it only as broad reference

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/kh/q2gvz8jznfux.jpg

Fraktayne · Nov 2018

Thanks for the feedback I'll update this after I fix it.
As for the body reference I've not used a chart and was doing things by sight (like alt-tab back and forth with reference) which I now know is the wrong way of doing it thanks!

carvuliero · Nov 2018

Better use one of the reference programs[image viewers] that have option to sit on top of everything so you don't have to alt -tab all the time ,something like ACDsee, ReferenceTool, kuadro or PureRef what ever works for you

Fraktayne · Nov 2018

Hi again,
It took a while but does this look better?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/j1/kzir8o5xo39n.png

carvuliero · Nov 2018

Proportion wise I see few more thing that kind of not match overall size relation :

-hands too small [front view -> length]

-head too small [front view -> probably neck is too long too and head is fine try to slide the head down ]

-knee can be lowered even more

You have to keep working on form tho. especially in side view lots of things are still missing like S curve in the legs and overall stand is kind of stiff .Easy way to keep your progress in check is to compare your current work and the reference simple line up like the one below is all you need [find whats different then improve your work ]

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/4t/ybptvj16s2p2.jpg

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hey there,
So minor setback here apparently my wacom driver isn't responding (tablet services not available) I've tried some tips I found at google
like resetting the services and stuff but its not really working. I might need to google more but If you know other fixes hit me up.

MujtabaYousuf · Dec 2018

Install Driver easy. Just go on google and type it. Its free. Once you install it, hit scan, it will scan all your pc components and then you can update the things which are outdated. Easy peezy

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Cool, thanks! I've uninstalled and reinstalled the driver but nada, hope this works.

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Did you try to unplug and plug your tablet or just restart PC / reinstall drivers or windows /or recover older drivers if you have update them

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

It did work once when I reinstalled the tablet driver then zbrush crashed. It went back to the service not available.

vrob3l · Dec 2018

I am no expert but proportions of human body fits the fibonacci sequence.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/rp/drm4shbn7thm.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/p0/ylelds6em5v2.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/uo/9rfn1u4f25lw.png

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Did you install drivers that came with the tablet[CD they give you ] or some new of the internet ?

What ever the problem is easiest way to fix it to make a clean installation of windows , zbrush and tablet drivers that will pretty much solve your issue 99% out 100 . There could be bunch of things like corrupt or confuse reg file or driver malfunction or just windows playing stupid

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

carvuliero said:

Did you install drivers that came with the tablet[CD they give you ] or some new of the internet ?
What ever the problem is easiest way to fix it to make a clean installation of windows , zbrush and tablet drivers that will pretty much solve your issue 99% out 100 . There could be bunch of things like corrupt or confuse reg file or driver malfunction or just windows playing stupid

I did an update with my wacom then this happened, I'm currently doing another uninstall because now it says "driver not found". I'll be back when this is fixed.
So I googled this wacom problem... is this actually common? wth wacom.

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

vrob3l said:

I am no expert but proportions of human body fits the fibonacci sequence.

Thanks! I'll definitely use this when I fix this driver/service thingy.

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi guys, got the driver working again.
So I tried to give it the S-line, lowered the knee, and enlarged the hands. What do you think?
Before

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/vc/rpu6i3to5r6s.png

After

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/yh/rkzkxmgdluxp.png

The change is subtle tho, I don't know if you can see it.

carvuliero · Dec 2018

I guess with some tweaking you can leave it as is [side view] or just rotate the legs backward a bit

What kind of references are you using exactly ?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/4f/j51wn78cjaka.jpg

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

I have 2 references for the body I got from artstation.

One is from Brandon LaFrance
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kOLyA

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/bs/l9psjp7taodb.jpg

and the other is from Alena dubrovina
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/6W0wN

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/wy/bdv6hd7kqsbg.jpg

for the hands and feet I just look at some from google images.
and for the head I was following a bunch of tutorials on youtube so I might ask your opinion on that later.

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

carvuliero said:

I guess with some tweaking you can leave it as is [side view] or just rotate the legs backward a bit
What kind of references are you using exactly ?

Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what are those green lines on the wrists?
Do I push them in?

MujtabaYousuf · Dec 2018

Fraktayne said:

carvuliero said:

I guess with some tweaking you can leave it as is [side view] or just rotate the legs backward a bit
What kind of references are you using exactly ?

Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what are those green lines on the wrists?
Do I push them in?

Notice on the concept you are seeing. Notice how curvy are the thighs. Check silhouette from every angle, not just front and orthographic. Try to match your concept as much possible as you can. Also your hand feels a bit weird and wobbly. Work on the hands and feet. I would have left feet as it is if she was wearing shoes but I think you are doing an anatomy study so really focus on that. Dont be afraid to redo some parts if you think that they need work.
Hope this helps.

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

MujtabaYousuf said:
Notice on the concept you are seeing. Notice how curvy are the thighs. Check silhouette from every angle, not just front and orthographic. Try to match your concept as much possible as you can. Also your hand feels a bit weird and wobbly. Work on the hands and feet. I would have left feet as it is if she was wearing shoes but I think you are doing an anatomy study so really focus on that. Dont be afraid to redo some parts if you think that they need work.
Hope this helps.

Yep, I'm doing an anatomy study.
I wanted to be able to do realistic stuff, thanks for the tips!

carvuliero · Dec 2018

"Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what are those green lines on the wrists?"

:: That's just a visual indicator roughly where greater trochanter is

Why don't you use real female as reference this way you be sure there are no mistake from the artist ,Anyway lets use one of reference you pick to show you easy way to train your eye also you improve your sculpt .You can make simple grid to give you something to compare your work and the reference in photoshop draw few lines evenly spaces [left image] and in zbrush can place few boxes on top of each other and scale them to height of your model .This will give you points that wont move and area always true now you have a set up that you can be use to compare

Next step find some important points on the silhouette like widest/narrowest point[right side of left image ] locate them on your sculpture connect them with straight line[left side of left image ] and you will have pretty good representation of your reference

For the width you can use one of the divisions[green boxes ] to compare it with for example widest point on the shoulder or pelvis -> so now you have both width and height and all the other points will live inside this rectangle

Don't worry this is just temporally till you train your eyes to do that for you pretty soon you wont need such set up

Let me know if I explain it clear enough

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Thanks guys! Ok lets do this! I'll do an update later.

FourtyNights · Dec 2018

I'd advice not to use other artists' anatomy sculpts as reference, because if there's something anatomically wrong, you'll transfer those mistakes to your sculpt, while you're being unaware what's wrong. And in the long run, you'll end up having a hard time fixing your anatomy skills, the more you learn in a bad way.

Use anatomy books, photo references or 3D scans of actual people instead, to be safe with the journey of learning anatomy.

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

FourtyNights said:

I'd advice not to use other artists' anatomy sculpts as reference, because if there's something anatomically wrong, you'll transfer those mistakes to your sculpt, while you're being unaware what's wrong. And in the long run, you'll end up having a hard time fixing your anatomy skills, the more you learn in a bad way.

Use anatomy books, photo references or 3D scans of actual people instead, to be safe with the journey of learning anatomy.

Thanks for the advice! btw do you have any books that you can recommend or sites that I can visit for good references?

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi again,
I hope this one's better, what you guys think?
Honestly everything's starting to look all too similar to me haha.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/bl/oqfhss278vbq.png

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Front and back views look much better ,keep working on side view ,curves are still not quite right

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi again,
it's been a while but I've finally got time for this and here's what I've done so far, I hope it's at least better than the last.
Things that I've changed:
- Made feet smaller.
-Tried to fix the curve of the spine (this i'm not sure if its correct).
-Fixed the hands (less floppy I guess?).
-More volume to hips.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/ag/l6ib5p2kw9ze.png

vavavoom · Dec 2018

Good progress.
The thing that still stands out to me is the feet, especially from the side profile look way too long. If you post an orthographic shot of the side, it will be easier to tell exactly.
Here's a quick suggestion...

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/ub/wbk9hx7640uk.jpg

Also, if you turn the little toe inwards, instead of it spreading it out away from the body of the foot I think it looks more natural. Something like this...

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/9w/w001x0gx715u.jpg

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Few adjustment for you to experiment with

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/iq/bu8ipma9pnyd.gif

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi there,
I've done what I can, I hope it improved.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/fj/6abcg08p5gn4.png

One more thing, I get this warning saying the files is over 4gb?
So I've deleted the undo history of the subtools but I still get the warning.
Does anyone know what to do in this case? or how did it even get to 4gb?

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi guys,
I think I'm getting it now, here's probably my last update for this topic because I want to work on the hair and clothes now.
I'm still gonna continue to practice on my form and proportions, and thanks to the people who gave me advice.

Feel free to point out my mistakes, I'll try to fix them.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/vj/p9l5qbzy4q8u.png

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Few more suggestion before you start working on her costume :

-Reduce her shoulder width

-Push head forward

-Straighten her legs

-Toes live on steeper curve then

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/7q/mid196j2j73a.gif

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

Hi again,
Here's what I made so far, I hope it's better.
I'm wondering tho, are the feet too long?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/f5/1pzmmxxwpeda.png

carvuliero · Dec 2018

Probably easy way to check feet should 1 or a bit more head height

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

I guess it's fine then. Thanks!

Fraktayne · Dec 2018

I'm hoping this is at least decent.

Critique on proportion and form

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