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The Secret Renaissance of the 21st Century

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aaronindhouse
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aaronindhouse polycounter lvl 9
I'm not sure if this has every really been brought up much here, or on any other of the big places, like Zbrush Central etc. but has the community ever stopped and realized that all of us, the modelers, the animators, the concept artists, all of us, are a part of one of the greatest art movements in the last hundred years?

Take a look at any of these disciplines, and you will see that artists are producing things on levels at and beyond what the masters of the last renaissance achieved in their time.  

Concept Artists are creating paintings that surpass those in museums on a technical level and in beauty.  

Modelers are creating sculptures in Zbrush that rival anything made by the Greeks and the Romans, the greatest sculptors in human history.  

Animators give life to digital works in ways people 60 years ago could never have imagined possible.


How is such a movement going unnoticed by the 'Art Scene' and Academics, and our culture as whole?

I'd be really interested to hear what y'all think



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  • Swaggletooth
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    Swaggletooth polycounter lvl 5
    As much as I love working on 3D art, it's not as revolutionary as cinema was. Really it's more an evolution of traditional art or artisan skills (sculpting, designing, painting etc); and if anything it lets me get away with lots of things that would otherwise take years of practice to accomplish.

    Think of all the time that traditional artists would have needed to put in to achieve things like correct colour, perspective, lighting and so on - we can easily go back to tweak our values. Can you imagine spending a lifetime perfecting that stuff by hand?

    As for concept artists producing "paintings" that surpass those seen in museums? Take a closer look at them. I really love how a lot of them look, but many of them are quick slapdash composites that shove photographs in together with a bit of paintover (if any at all).

    I don't feel like 3D art is overlooked at all, plenty of people talk about how great stuff looks in a movie or game. For me that's just fine.
  • Kevin Albers
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    Kevin Albers polycounter lvl 18
    Hyperbole much?
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    the reason no one noticed is, everything made on a computer is just pushing buttons you know
    no real skills involved, just some photoshop filters and magic buttons
  • MrHobo
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    MrHobo polycounter lvl 13
    I knida disagree about 50%. The art we make as contributors to a game is not what defines the 21st century renaissance, its the finished and released games that do that.
     
    I think the issue is that at the end of the day the work we produce as a part of a production while great from a technical level and aesthetic level exists as a part of a whole. Think of it like this, the individual brush strokes that make up a painting in and of themselves are not statements and they normally do not 'say' anything. They are used to build something that does make a statement something that does speak to the viewer.

    In the same way, Uncharted 4 might make statements about 'letting go' and 'family bonds' but a sculpt/final game mesh of Nathan Drake while amazing in its aesthetics and technical achievement doesn't actually say anything by itself. However, the work we produce on our own time, our personal work CAN be statements if we want them to be. However, frequently... We don't say anything with out personal projects. I think its still art, in that it exists for itself.

    And the funny thing games themselves are NOT being ignored by academics as something worthy of critical analysis, the statements games make are being seen and studied now more than ever, in many cases at the same level as traditional media.

     Long story short, what we make for a game (or film for that matter) isn't what would define the 21st century renaissance, the games themselves do that, we are craftsmen contributing to that.
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    the difference is that almost nobody is really expressing themselves as an artist in the games industry. you model concepts made and approved by others. You create concepts approved and directed by others. You animate stuff made and directed by others. In the end, you're not a great Renaissance artist with a grand plan. You're more like one of the nameless helpers who painted all background details that the master didn't feel like doing. If anyone's name will be remembered then it will be guys who are already household names in gaming. You're work for hire, not the Renaissance who expresses himself by having full control over his medium and art.

    I'm pretty sure though that in a few decades historians will go over games like they did go over film. But it'll be mostly talk about famous designers or whenever a revolutionary event happened - e.g. emergence of online games, move from 2D to 3D, dominance of FTP games, MOBA era, emergence of VR and so on.

    Beside that, yes, academics do take notice. But academic research isn't necessarily quick, and being a scholar of game art/design/whatever is probably still somewhat of a niche in the wider fields of art, technology and management.
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    aaronindhouse said:
    How is such a movement going unnoticed by the 'Art Scene' and Academics, and our culture as whole?

    because at the end of the day we're making toys for 13 year olds where they move between clumps of grass to avoid guard view cones so they can get a melee kill that has a special slow-motion takedown animation as they get rewarded XP
  • kanga
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    kanga quad damage
    How is such a movement going unnoticed by the 'Art Scene' and Academics, and our culture as whole?
    I'm really not sure what the 'art scene' is busy with these days but game technology isn't confined to a bubble. A very small percentage of all computer graphics is confined to the entertainment industry. Nonetheless, who cares what the art world thinks. This stuff is a blast!
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Gah.. started writing a really long and garrulous essay on this...

    The jist of it was:

    For centuries prior to the renaissance, Artists would simply paint what they knew, and occasionally what they saw.

    High Renaissance Artists like Leo, Michelangelo, would actually dig up dead bodies or visit the morgue, and study anatomy through autopsy n shit. They basically invented what we know as perspective. Atmospheric fog, and chiaroscuro.

    Their study of anatomy furthered the fields of Science and Medicine.

    What they did was change the entire worlds perspective on art. As great as we are, it's doubtful we are changing many perspectives. 
  • EarthQuake
    @JacqueChoi: Yap. To say that what game artists are doing today surpasses the masters of old shows a comical lack of context and perspective.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator

    What they did was change the entire worlds perspective on art. As great as we are, it's doubtful we are changing many perspectives. 
    I agree that there's no downplaying the achievements of past artists. Their mark in history is unerasable. 

    But I disagree with saying modern artists aren't changing perspectives. I think one major advantage that past artists would kill for is the internet. That advancement has brought art to every corner of the world and it can all be done for free. 

    It's also a tool that created more artists. Before the internet, I mostly just treated art as a side hobby and just hoped it would be one of my careers. Now fast forward to when I discovered websites like Polycount, Deviantart etc. Seeing all the art made online skyrocketed my interest in being an artist myself.
    Kwramm said:
    the difference is that almost nobody is really expressing themselves as an artist in the games industry. you model concepts made and approved by others.
    ....
    You're work for hire, not the Renaissance who expresses himself by having full control over his medium and art.
    I find these two statements odd. How is someone not expressing themselves in games? Isn't the way the characters modeled an expression? Nobody is just taking a box and rendering it.  Same goes for concept art. Was it not created based off an amalgamation of research and imagination?

    I know this is my own anecdote but in many threads I've made, I've been very open behind every part of the modeling process. An example is a a shotgun I made recently. I could have just rendered an exact replica but instead, I went for something that was low poly. You could say "you're just changing specs" but that's not true. I wanted a shotgun that specifically and intentionally looked more blockier and edgier than its real life counterpart. Especially the slugs. It was this choice that I believed made my gun more interesting and fit the rest of the scene I had in mind.



  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    expression is overrated... the artists we're talking about did hard work in the objective sciences. they weren't doing me-search, asking themselves what they wanted to express and how they felt about how things ought to look. they fuckin dug up bodies to rip em apart and see where the tendons were. they figured out the arm is a third class lever because the bicep attaches to the forearm beneath the elbow and they did it all just so they could draw people better. there's a world of difference between that and making a shotgun shell 5 sides instead of 12 because PS1 spec is fun. not to shit on you or anything
  • danr
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    danr interpolator
    to me the exciting thing is one of potential reach, and the speed with which that could happen. Historically, it took yearsand years - generations even - for discoveries and achievements to filter out to and influence what was just a very small proportion of the population.

    Now, there's the possibility for something genuinely inspiring in the field of games and CGI to be an honest to goodness Day One smash, hitting millions upon millions with its life-changing magnificence in the time it takes some people to get out of bed. Shout up when it happens.

    @jordann ... man alive, get over yourself. What you're talking about is just the simple vanilla choices that game artists make every - single - day, while they filter whats in their brain through the software and onto the game player's screen. Its not some grand cultural signifier. It's just normal. 


  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    My point isn't saying "I'm the next Davinci". It's quite the opposite. I wanted to say "ok, the Renaissance is over, so how about we talk about the type of art that Artists are making now?". 

    I don't believe PS1 spec art or any modern 3D art are just binary actions. Isn't a common motto here that "there is no make art button"?

    It all takes effort and just like how Renaissance artists went around digging up bodies and studying them because anatomy wasn't as understood as today, there's the same case that until computers can do the same process automatically, modeling still requires human interactivity and thought.

    Another great anecdote is that I remember posting on another forum and there was a talk about indies. People would always say  "why do Indies rely so much on 2d pixel art and not early 3D games like the N64 or PS1?" Their response would be "because even despite the age of those systems, that type of art is still considered far too hard to make or would put them out of budget".

    There is still something cultural in this where people aspire to see this stuff but how it's created comes down to people who can actually specialize in it.
  • Pedro Amorim
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  • sacboi
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    sacboi high dynamic range

    @aaronindhouse

    "How is such a movement going unnoticed by the 'Art Scene' and Academics..."

    Who knows...?! :o 

    "...and our culture as whole?"

    TBH, I'd say gamification whether your average joe is aware or not has well and truly embedded itself throughout today's global society, so don't worry too much about it.

    Just calm down and make something :)

  • EarthQuake
    Oh good, JordanN and Tidal Blast are posting now. This thread was light on delusions of grandeur, I'm glad you guys are here to help.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi high dynamic range

    @aaronindhouse

    "Take a look at any of these disciplines, and you will see that artists are producing things on levels at and beyond what the masters of the last renaissance achieved in their time."

    ...additionally, of course there are comparable accomplished CG artists indeed their work tends to benchmark the scope of dedication in terms of time and effort invested, typically over many years to achieve what most people interested in the digital medium as a whole I suspect would aspire too, myself included. However that quoted snippet frankly I find just a tad disingenuous, because not only are we separated historically by time and place but more importantly given this thread's premise, current solid-state tools/techniques as well. The old Masters for example during their respective trade apprenticeship after first having to pass an initial examination assessing potential innate creative attributes. Notably undertaken by Buonarroti Simoni, Leonardo di ser Piero, Raffaello Sanzio, Tiziano Vecelli, Tintoretto and Giotto were thus taught the rediscovered humanism (Western) foundational artistic knowledge of the ancients we take for granted today i.e: figurative drawing, observation, perspective, anatomy, lighting theory, colour theory, composition...etc. Thereby refining an existing prodigious talent starkly manifested via those acknowledged surviving masterpieces seen today. Now that all being said I believe realistically there's no comparison between the two mediums, here's why. A 3D artist can basically create something finished without being aware of those foundational elements listed above, particularly drawing and painting due to how 3D assets are generated. Whereas a 2D trained artist can relatively transition across to the digital space once a familiarity for a specific software suite is attained however the reverse can't be said when switching from a CG background to traditional.   

    EDIT:
    Mods, for some reason I'm unable to correct the "whitespace" at the bottom of this post, possibly a random key combination when hitting reply - sorry.












  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    oh wow i havent seen a cringe thread like this in polycount in a while ! Even Tidal Blast and Jordann replied wich gives it the icing on top of the cringe cake !

    heres the best one so far of this thread : 

    "I know this is my own anecdote but in many threads I've made, I've been very open behind every part of the modeling process. An example is a a shotgun I made recently. I could have just rendered an exact replica but instead, I went for something that was low poly. You could say "you're just changing specs" but that's not true. I wanted a shotgun that specifically and intentionally looked more blockier and edgier than its real life counterpart. Especially the slugs. It was this choice that I believed made my gun more interesting and fit the rest of the scene I had in mind." Jordan N

       -no , you just couldnt model it correctly so you did those mental gymnastics to justify your lack of trying until you get it right.

    and runner up :

    "---anything by Tidal blast wich i have on my ignore list, but im sure its golden"

    these threads creep up monthly or so...You arent special, there is no "grand artistic movement" that you are part of. You are artists, stop procrastinating with this silly threads and get to art .Its funny that the people that usually spend so much time on GD are the ones that rarely have any art to show.

    /rage
  • Francois_K
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  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    To be fair, we are part of a huge art movement. We're the first real generation of digital artists.

    Does that matter? No idea. I suspect we may be well known in the future, as a whole, for our work collectively being lost in some catastrophic tech way. Maybe we'd be the "lost generation of art".

    That would be interesting. People with a propensity to exaggerate will talk of the good old days, "When I was a kid, the most amazing artists were posting work on the internet. Works more breathtaking than any physical painting. But alas, with the great crash of 2026, all, lost! Tech gods were angered by our creations, and thus, smote each pixel of them."

    A great mystery, a mystique, will surround us all.
  • EarthQuake
    Joopson said:
    To be fair, we are part of a huge art movement. We're the first real generation of digital artists.

    Does that matter? No idea. I suspect we may be well known in the future, as a whole, for our work collectively being lost in some catastrophic tech way. Maybe we'd be the "lost generation of art".

    That would be interesting. People with a propensity to exaggerate will talk of the good old days, "When I was a kid, the most amazing artists were posting work on the internet. Works more breathtaking than any physical painting. But alas, with the great crash of 2026, all, lost! Tech gods were angered by our creations, and thus, smote each pixel of them."

    A great mystery, a mystique, will surround us all.
    Now this is an interesting tangent. There are a few things going on here:

    Ease of creating art and accessibility to art tools and learning resources has never been better. Does this mean that we're all producing works of art unsurpassed by those of bygone days? Absolutely not - it means we're pissing into a see of piss, and truly exceptional work is increasingly rare. When we talk about the achievements of the masters it's important to keep historical context in mind and recognize not only what they did but when they did it and what it meant to the world at the time. Sure, one can find any number of artists today that can paint a in a more photo realistic manner than da Vinci - but you're entirely missing the point.

    Additionally, modern digital art is created in and for a throw away culture. Artwork is quickly created, posted on the internet, and forgotten. It is highly unlikely that in 100 years someone will dig up a Van Gogh from this pile of garbage that we're creating.

    Artwork produced for film and games is stripped of individual expression and creativity. It's a product to be consumed en masse and it's extremely difficult to pin point any aspect of it's creation to individual artists. And even when we can, that trash can or AR15 or space marine in itself isn't meaningful art in the traditional sense. It's not art that is significant to culture and society as a whole. One could argue that certain films or games as a whole transcend this boundary.

    There is art or artistry in much of what we do, that is certainly true, but the end result is rarely of any significance whatsoever. A quick cheat sheet for those following along, if you have to try to convince your peers of how significant your art is on internet forums, it's not even remotely significant. If it is of any significance, society will let you know eventually, though you may be well and proper dead by that time.




  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    I'm not sure if I can subscribe into thinking there is no value in individual art pieces. 

    I think there's too much emphasis on "making art that surpasses Davinci". There are arguments that go both ways but ultimately, I don't think that's the subject that needs to be focused on and teared apart. We live in a time with different tools, that it becomes an apples and oranges comparison.

    Art can be treated like a product yes. There's no denying that it's heavily involved in selling games and movies etc. But that shouldn't be the end all conclusion that there is no more merit left.

    Especially as, the way I see it, I don't always see "mainstream = perfect".  A game sells a million copies, but what if it doesn't have the artstyle I'm after? Someone comes out with a game that does something different, takes a huge risk with its art by looking very stylish instead of being brown realistic with a first person shooter mechanic.

    That to me is why I consider it art. Because the developer chose to be daring. Even if there is no profit to be made, I admire that time was still taken to craft a game or an artstyle that specifically comes from the artist's imagination and relatively nowhere else. And yes, that includes every asset that had to be modeled/textured/lit etc.

    When a computer can create a watercolor landscape in the blink of an eye, or generate characters that look like old 90s cartoon movies then fine. I'll admit that there's nothing left anymore that makes art special.



    But that thought terrifies me as well. Will the future of art be decided by what the masses want, as opposed to what the [individual] artist does? A future where everything is homogenized is my biggest nightmare.
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  • low odor
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  • Synaesthesia
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    Synaesthesia polycounter
    While we're taking photographs of monitors, I may as well submit my entry. I call it "Photograph of a Photograph of a Monitor of a Screenshot of a Screenshot".


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  • EarthQuake
    Is that a poop joke
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  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    While we're taking photographs of monitors, I may as well submit my entry. I call it "Photograph of a Photograph of a Monitor of a Screenshot of a Screenshot".

    <pic>
    Finally someone who opens almost as many tabs as I do
  • Jaston3D
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    Jaston3D polycounter lvl 8
    @Tidal Blast   Your links are broken in your signature mystery man.
    oh wait. 
  • Synaesthesia
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    While we're taking photographs of monitors, I may as well submit my entry. I call it "Photograph of a Photograph of a Monitor of a Screenshot of a Screenshot".

    <pic>
    Finally someone who opens almost as many tabs as I do

    It's the only way to browse the web!
  • radiancef0rge
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    radiancef0rge ngon master
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  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    I feel like the man carrying Pizza in this gif.

    "I believe art is very important. We need to.... woah what just happened?"


  • Magihat
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    Magihat ngon master
    Is this thread what happens as long as @Gib is crowned the king of polycount? If so: long live the king!
  • Chimp
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    Chimp interpolator
    eh, i get and agree with the sentiment but I don't believe it. Film has been vastly more developed than game art has at this point, we're tbh following them at the moment really so far as art assets go. narrative wise, I suppose we're going in other directions necessarily as a result of how we interact with the medium actively, but even still we're leaning on the conventions developed by film.

     I love this profession cos I get to dabble in everything from art to science, and whilst I love the technological, technique and aesthetic boundaries we've pushed, but to call it the greatest movement thus far is i think a bit premature.

     we, as game artists, haven't actually developed anything new or done anything new with what we have that film or books or theatre before those hadn't done.

    That said, give it another 30 years and we might be there.

    Edit: as for da vinci, he was (broadly, in terms of character), no procrastinator - you can tell that just by the sheer volume of work, he was bloody prolific. Da Vinci's incomplete work does not point to procrastination, in his case for the most part it points to ITERATION. Each unfinished test is an iteration on the last unfinished test in preparation for a finished piece by design - he didnt just stop working on stuff because he wandered off to play guitar, he did tests of techniques and compositions and form etc. endless tests. That's not procrastination, that's dedication and tireless, toilsome endeavouring toward perfection. Procrastinators don't pump out thousands of pieces. And even if they did, Da Vinci's arent random pieces, they're largely preparatory, to prepare him to do a proper piece to the standard he wants.

    Edit edit: that article, further down actually refutes the procrastination claim itself. Read to the bottom.
  • Cibo
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    Cibo polycounter lvl 10
    I think the value of digital art is nothing compared to the danger of a big marmor block and with one false hit with a chisel your whole work is destroyed. Can one 3D artist say he never used the undo function or give some volume back to a spot with the clay tool?

    I have respect for artists which have a unique concept for a model and bring it to life. But when someone make a model from a concept of others he is for me more a craftsmen then a artist in this moment.



  • Neox
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    Cibo said:
    I think the value of digital art is nothing compared to the danger of a big marmor block and with one false hit with a chisel your whole work is destroyed. Can one 3D artist say he never used the undo function or give some volume back to a spot with the clay tool?

    I have respect for artists which have a unique concept for a model and bring it to life. But when someone make a model from a concept of others he is for me more a craftsmen then a artist in this moment.



    hehe there have been 3d tools a few years back without any undo ;)
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 10
    Magihat said:
    Is this thread what happens as long as @Gib is crowned the king of polycount? If so: long live the king!



    The king has been dethroned.
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    Joopson said:
    To be fair, we are part of a huge art movement. We're the first real generation of digital artists.

    Probably the comment I find most relevant on this thread. 

    We're the first generation of digital artist.
    A new breed that uses automation, programmed shortcuts, as well as computerized tools to aids,assist us in our work.

    To be honest, I think we have it easy. Yeh, you might see lots of talented work on Artstation, DeviantArt and ZbrushCentral but there would be far less of it in this qaulty if itwasn't about the highly sophisticated softwres we have today.

    Artist back then did not have acces to Ctrl-Z, you could not just unsculpt or unpaint a mistake you did, they had no layers to divide their work into multiples levels of complexity, it was all in one piece, htye didn't have acces to pre-made brushes or textures and all that. They most likely always had to start from scratch.

    I've always had a huge respect for handmade traditionnal craft or discipline. I somewhat see more value and in bread made in traditionnal way in an oven instead of the processed factory one, sames goes for shoes, car, woodwork...wahtever you want.

    When it comes to digital art, I kinda think sometimes that it's even worse since...we never actually get to ''touch'' our work..it's all behind a screen, it's just data translated into pixels...sure you can print but is it truly the same thing?


  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/the-complete-works.html

    I dunno, this Da Vinci cat has a pretty good portfolio of finished work. I'd hire him


  • Francois_K
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    Francois_K interpolator
    We are part of the digital revolution. Maybe it doesn't sound as grandiose as Secret Renaissance but y'know.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Cibo said:
    I think the value of digital art is nothing compared to the danger of a big marmor block and with one false hit with a chisel your whole work is destroyed. Can one 3D artist say he never used the undo function or give some volume back to a spot with the clay tool?

    I have respect for artists which have a unique concept for a model and bring it to life. But when someone make a model from a concept of others he is for me more a craftsmen then a artist in this moment.



    Even though the undo tool exists, that doesn't mean it can correct every mistake.

    Unless you got a beast of a computer, undo functions stops remembering to a certain point. That's why I save out multiple versions of my work. Regardless, I don't think it's anyone's intention to continuously make errors. That's still inefficiency, digital or not. 

    Blond said:
    When it comes to digital art, I kinda think sometimes that it's even worse since...we never actually get to ''touch'' our work..it's all behind a screen, it's just data translated into pixels...sure you can print but is it truly the same thing?

    This is why I'm hoping VR becomes big. The monitor will no longer serve as division from getting closer to the digital end result.
  • JacqueChoi
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    low odor said:
    http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/the-complete-works.html

    I dunno, this Da Vinci cat has a pretty good portfolio of finished work. I'd hire him


    BTW That's actually cloth, that he starched up, and created a cast. He never hand-sculpted it.


    That was Italian Renaissance Marvelous Designer.

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