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What would you tell your younger self that would shave off the time you took to learn 3d?

ziikutv
polycounter lvl 9
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ziikutv polycounter lvl 9
Question states it all. I have lurked here, tried many times, failed many times. But to quote Silvio Dante... "Just when I thought I was out... they keep pulling me back in"


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  • Geezus
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    Geezus mod
    "Don't go to college. Join Polycount University sooner. Put down the beer, pick up the whiskey."

    (I don't regret art school. I regret the debt.)
  • Biomag
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    Biomag sublime tool
    'Shut up, sit down, its not good enough yet and you still don't know half of it.'

    Simple truth, its a lot to learn between anatomy, clothing patterns, haircuts, especially going for realism... and there is the software that needs to be learned... and the techniques/worksflows... and actually the technology that brings everything together... 

    The only thing that helps through all of that as in any other part of life - start with the basics/big shapes and work yourself towards the details not the other way around...
  • Eric Chadwick
    Don't over-think it. Just do it.


  • slipsius
    Get the fuck off social media and make art. 
  • RyRyB
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    RyRyB polycounter lvl 18
    More focus.

    - Eliminate distractions. (Video games?? Hahahahahaha...)
    - Quit worrying about which 10 programs you want to learn; just pick 3 and go. 

    Etc.


  • Chimp
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    Chimp interpolator
    Do many finished pieces. But obviously to manage that, keep your scope tiny. This allows for many iterations, not forever spent toiling before you have the skills. quantity > quality until you can actually do quality.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    My only real mistake was I spent too much time making small props. Not because I couldn't do better, but because I thought it was the minimum to get a job.  Had I known modeling something as complex as a Radial Engine would have landed me a job instantly, I would have done it two years ago.

  • Scizz
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    Scizz polycounter lvl 11
    Just keep going. There were a few times where I took long breaks and wasn't progressing. Sucks when I think about where'd I'd be in 3D if once I started taking it seriously I never stopped. 
  • kwyjibo
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    kwyjibo polycounter lvl 7
    Start making game art, rather than film/animation. Working within limitations and getting stuff into an engine teaches you so much. Film/feature animation is a giant black hole where it feels like you need to be an expert in everything, rigging, rendering, modelling, animation, lighting...
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    kwyjibo said:
    Start making game art, rather than film/animation. Working within limitations and getting stuff into an engine teaches you so much. Film/feature animation is a giant black hole where it feels like you need to be an expert in everything, rigging, rendering, modelling, animation, lighting...
    Wait, what? Where did you hear/learn that?
  • kwyjibo
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    kwyjibo polycounter lvl 7
    I wasn't specifically taught that "you must be an expert in everything". It's just that its easy to get bogged down trying to learn a whole lot of stuff when you have no limitations. Things like overly flexible do everything rigging, facial animation, fur/cloth simulation, post effects, etc etc. Sure games can get as complicated as you want them to too but generally having an engine as a goal imposes some limitations conducive to getting things done. Dealing with things like normals and exporting etc also forces you to learn a lot of fundamentals of how 3d graphics work. Whereas work not targeted at an engine, often times you can just do something in 3d app, hit render, and accept the outcome without really understanding how or why something works or looks the way it does. With an engine, there is the question of ok this is how it looks in the 3d editor, but it looks different in the engine..why? This has been my experience anyway.

    I guess the crux of what I'm saying is having limitations is conducive to getting stuff done. You can impose limitations with film stuff too obviously if you're disciplined.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    I personally wouldn't say that's an obstacle for learning. Like yeah sure, VFX offers an expanded toolset. But unless you're making something that's the best of the best, it's not really necessary to cover every subject.

    It's just like games. You can make something low poly and be satisfied with that. But if you're making something that's bleeding edge in graphics, you will have to dive into using particles/post processing/simulations etc. As that's where big AAA games are trending now.
  • Francois_K
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    Francois_K interpolator
    'Stop being a fucking fuckwit , start handling critique better , actually think and do studies and keep fucking going. I'm you from the future. Trust me. Peace'
  • Popol
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    Popol interpolator
    "Never sculpt a face without a references, it's a complete waste of time"

    Actually, that's the number one tip I'd give to any beginner in the art of making characters.
  • Sunray
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    Sunray polycounter lvl 7
    Don't keep trying to fix your shit sometimes it's better to just delete it and start over.
  • ambelamba
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    ambelamba polycounter lvl 6
    This is what I would tell my younger self.

    Do not procrastinate. Do not try to create a masterpiece. Relax. Do the dynamic sketching all the time. Take a sculpting class. Perfectionism hurts. Again, relax. It's OK to cry when no one's watching. Be aware of what kind of person you really are. It is normal and expected to take a small step one by one. Don't overthink. Buy a parking permit and go hiking every now and then. 

    And finally: Don't be super vigilant. It's OK to be fearless. Having some regrets in your pocket is better than not having and life experience.
  • ziikutv
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    ziikutv polycounter lvl 9
    Thank you all.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    -Don't worry about your work being good away, the learning is in the process
    -Accept your flaws and focus on trying to find ways to improve upon those
    -Fix yourself some goals everytime you start a new project, what are you hoping to learn in this new piece? Pick your project to fit your goals. You are trying to pratice your reproduction skill, try a likeness, trying to practice your creativity, work without concept or with a very ''sketchy'' concept that's gotta force you to make things up along the way. PIcking your project to focus on specific goals will make it even more valuable in the long run.

  • stickadtroja
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    stickadtroja polycounter lvl 11
    "keep doing exactly what you are doing. you are awsome"
  • ziikutv
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    ziikutv polycounter lvl 9
    Shocker... I would tell to my younger self the following things:

    - Get a good PC. Nvidia GPU for compatibility and run UE4 properly. And a good CPU for Zbrush.
    - Learn and master both 3DS Max and Maya.
    -  Learn and master Zbrush for environment art. It's a time saver.
    - Learn Photoshop
    - Learn and master Substance Designer + Substance Painter.
    - Learn UE4 and the UE4 - Material Editor.
    - Forget about guns, mechs, vehicles or game characters.
    -  Just focus on creating environments in UE4 for yourself and getting a job as an environment artist and be great at it, one of the best. Create one small environment in UE4. Something new. Then create another one. Another one. Another one. And never stop.
    - Use refs, a lot of refs. Refs are oky. It's not cheating and it won't make you less of an artist. Use a lot of refs.
    - Learn programming (Python, C#, maxScript, MEL, C++, whatever can be useful to you and an employer). Don't think that there is an actual separation between artists and tech artists.
    - Forget about Modo. Forget about Blender. Forget about improving your workflow. Forget about character art. Forget about working on game mods just to ''get experience''.
    Why forget about Modo?

    I have student license for Maya and have always loved it (of course, I never truly learned Maya completely) but currently I am using a trial of Modo and I find it very powerful and cool but I find organization of tools is a bit poor for my taste.
  • AtticusMars
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    AtticusMars greentooth
    "Stop shitposting and make more art"
  • Chimp
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    Chimp interpolator
    ziikutv said:
    Shocker... I would tell to my younger self the following things:

    - Get a good PC. Nvidia GPU for compatibility and run UE4 properly. And a good CPU for Zbrush.
    - Learn and master both 3DS Max and Maya.
    -  Learn and master Zbrush for environment art. It's a time saver.
    - Learn Photoshop
    - Learn and master Substance Designer + Substance Painter.
    - Learn UE4 and the UE4 - Material Editor.
    - Forget about guns, mechs, vehicles or game characters.
    -  Just focus on creating environments in UE4 for yourself and getting a job as an environment artist and be great at it, one of the best. Create one small environment in UE4. Something new. Then create another one. Another one. Another one. And never stop.
    - Use refs, a lot of refs. Refs are oky. It's not cheating and it won't make you less of an artist. Use a lot of refs.
    - Learn programming (Python, C#, maxScript, MEL, C++, whatever can be useful to you and an employer). Don't think that there is an actual separation between artists and tech artists.
    - Forget about Modo. Forget about Blender. Forget about improving your workflow. Forget about character art. Forget about working on game mods just to ''get experience''.
    Why forget about Modo?

    I have student license for Maya and have always loved it (of course, I never truly learned Maya completely) but currently I am using a trial of Modo and I find it very powerful and cool but I find organization of tools is a bit poor for my taste.
    Probably because he's advising his younger self to prepare for what most jobs ask for, modo may be lovely but I reckon his decision is based more in what's useful in the workplace as opposed to what he prefers
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 12
    buy 18 button mouse, attach macros to said mouse.

    and never forget about modo 
  • Mstankow
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    Mstankow polycounter lvl 11
    use the z key in 3ds Max. I went years in school not using that button.
  • ziikutv
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    ziikutv polycounter lvl 9
    buy 18 button mouse, attach macros to said mouse.

    and never forget about modo 
    I have 12 keys mouse. I am sorry I let you down
  • Chimp
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    Chimp interpolator
    Oh yeah, I'd tell myself to keep my desk clean and tidy. Putting in the effort, or not, is a good demonstration of how one will behave in bigger and more important contexts - like keeping a collaborative project clean of mess, or indeed just maintaining things in general. Can't keep your desk clear? probably can't keep your work clean either.
  • Biomag
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    Biomag sublime tool
    Chimp said:
    Can't keep your desk clear? probably can't keep your work clean either.
    Nope, not true. Don't generalize such things. My personal space is a mess, I rarely take notes so by that standards I my work would be a mess and me constantly forgetting things...
    actually the contrary is the truth ;)

    If it helps you with your work great, but I would recommend not to judge others based on these things. Judge them by how clean their files are not their tables :)
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 18
    I suspect "do something about your damn mental health" might have been the most useful way to make my younger self a more productive artist, but in the spirit of the thread I think I'd go with:
     "You're working harder and longer than you ever will again, but the results are garbage. Find someone who'll tell you your work sucks and why, then do what they suggest. And stop paying for a university course that's not teaching you anything at all. You muppet."
  • Stuart Campbell
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    Stuart Campbell polycounter lvl 13
    • Don't try to learn everything all at once. Focus on one thing and do it well. So with 3D, start with the fundamentals and don't worry about trying to learn every package going. You can expand your skillset as required later. If you want to be an environment artist, do that. Don't feel the need to animate and code and do VFX and some characters...
    • Stop looking for a magic bullet. You won't find one.
    • Have a clear plan for where you want to get to and work towards that, and only that. Don't be tempted to jump around trying a bit of everything just because it interests you in the moment or because you've seen something cool online.
    • Focus on learning first. Don't aim for perfection immediately. Accept that your first pieces won't be that great but know that you will learn with each project and improve. Eventually you will get to the level where you are ready.
    • Learn to self-critique your work. Take a step back and really look at what you're making. Is it achieving what you set out to make?
  • ziikutv
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    ziikutv polycounter lvl 9
    I suspect "do something about your damn mental health" might have been the most useful way to make my younger self a more productive artist, but in the spirit of the thread I think I'd go with:
     "You're working harder and longer than you ever will again, but the results are garbage. Find someone who'll tell you your work sucks and why, then do what they suggest. And stop paying for a university course that's not teaching you anything at all. You muppet."
    So how did you accomplish the former suggestion? 
  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    -The importance of references, something I never used to pay attention to. How much that helps to train your eye and recognise what makes for good and professional looking art.
    -Take your time with your first projects, learn the fundamentals, they may be boring but you would come to see how this would benefit you in future works.
    -Be patient. All will make sense and the full picture will come together in good time.
  • Men_and_Monsters
    - start small and fail FAST! it's hard to learn something when your project is huge. that's why I make simple props i can do in a weekend when i want to learn something. 

    - you DON'T need to be perfect, just 'good enough'. Polycount is great and horrible at the same time. you can learn a ton but you can also seriously psyche yourself out. remember. the super freaking awesome shit you see is done by people who have done it for a long time or put in a lot of hard work. it's okay to be a green belt, black belt comes with time. also on that note you can find work when your work is just 'okay'. i'm not saying don't improve it just means that some companies really just need to fill a spot and FAST and if your waiting to be damn perfect your gonna miss your chance. if you suck, well yet another forgotten portfolio in a sea of crappy portfolios that were submitted but if your 'good enough' your in the running for that job!

    -learn new things but keep a strong focus on what you really want. it's really easy to slide into roles you don't want. especially when your boss keeps on trying to nudge you to do more and you feel like if you don't you'll get a pink slip.  you have to set limits. it's okay to say no. 

    - your still a good person even if you don't work in games. your life has value! so many young people are like 'I wanna work in games or BUST!' and yeah some just don't make it. (some just suck, others never got the right break, or live in the wrong area, etc.) if your dream doesn't happen and life goes somewhere else.. dude, it's okay. no seriously. IT'S OKAY! you didn't waste your time. don't beat yourself up. God, i can't tell you how often I have seen this. Its really sad. 

    -and finally... keep up with technology but it's not a replacement for the basics. no super cool plug in replaces solid understanding of the fundamentals. sure they make life easier but don't be overly reliant on them 
  • Deoce
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    Deoce polycounter lvl 5
    I'm a little bit late to the post and I see a lot of great advice here. I actually given the same thought about this not long ago and decided to write it down.

    Here's the link to the full text. I'll summarize it here if it's TLTR for you.

    - Decide early on industry and specialization

    Every specialization and industry requires different sets of skills. Give yourself little time to inform about all the positions and job descriptions and then see what you like the most and start learning the necessary stuff for that position and go from there. If we say that you learn everything you will become okey-ish in a lot of stuff but not good enough for you to get paid. By losing the idea of being a jack of all trades as a beginner can save you a lot of time and help you get your first gig. As you progress forward and get your crucial skills on the high level you can always go back and expend your knowledge, but in the meantime, focus on the needs of that one particular job.

    - Self-taught is a legit option

    I just want to get this out of the way at almost the very beginning; the answer is NO, you do not need school or an education institution of any kind to get a job in the industry. I know this is a very sensitive topic and don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that school is bad or that it’s waste of time. I’m sure there are benefits of going to school like social aspect, connections, collaborations, accepting feedback… but that’s another topic.

    - Basics

    Solid foundation is a must for you to build on it with more and more knowledge and experience; otherwise it will all come crashing down.

    - Take small project

    Artists grow by exercising so every model is better than the one before it. So it’s better to do ten small projects than one that is bigger. Because as you do small projects you are more likely go through more different challenges, obstacles, problems that, once you´ve solved them, you´ll learn and grow, in comparison to a big project where you might just end up with not as many challenges, obstacles, problems as if you would on small ones or even worse, that you might not even know how to solve and you might quit.

    - Learn, do NOT copy

    Tutorials are there for you to learn the process of making something, so if there is a tutorial “how to make a shield” make a sword. That way you´re going to learn how to implement that workflow you saw on tutorial inside your own workflow of making anything you want.

    - Right way to work

    When you see other´s people workflow keep in mind that that’s their way, not the right way. If you find out about new way to do things, try it out, but if you see you´re not comfortable with it just don’t incorporate it in your workflow. Find what’s easiest for you, experiment, try out different stuff, there is no right way.

    - Finish your work

    Finishing a project is a must. It doesn’t matter what kind of quality it ends up with, it’s the ability to start with something from zero and push it ´till the finish line that´s important.

    - Be open for criticism

    This type of job requires a lot of collaboration between peers. Working with people and asking for their help, opinions and critiques will make you grow. So ask for feedback, ask for constructive honest criticism and be ready for everything. Most people won’t be helpful when asking for criticism, some of them will be very harsh, rude, sarcastic, some of them will be giving you positive comments like “good job!”, “keep up the good work!” but nothing that is helpful and something to improve on. But there’s those few that will really go an extra mile and be really honest and leave positive or negative constructive criticism and when you receive those comments be open for them, give it a thought and try applying it to your work.

    - Match your portfolio to the company

    When you are building portfolio try to match it to the desired company. The easiest way to get your foot inside the door of a studio is building the portfolio matching the studio´s IPs.

    - It is worth it

    Art is a skill; you need to put in the hours to get better. If you do more, the more you will improve, if you overwork yourself, you will end up with a creative block, demotivated, not working for days or even weeks. If you work on your basics, you will improve faster; otherwise it will be the slower pace. If you feed yourself with useless information, you won’t be able to solve problems if you hit a bump, but if you find out what you need in order to make a progress, all the problems will be solved fast or they´ll even be avoided before they happen. And do it every day.

    It is a hard road to take and it will sometimes look like you are not moving at all, but trust me, it is worth it.

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