I haven't submitted yet and would appreciate feedback. I'm new to the 3D pipeline so please give advice, particularly on maximizing texture space if possible. thanks!
It's rather difficult to tell how to help with your textures without seeing the texture sheets. Generally to maximize texture space it is best to make things as symmetrical as possible. Areas that also don't have intricate details can be reduced in size in order to give more space to other areas, nobody cares if some wrinkles on a solid color stocking is a little blurry but they will for sure notice if a pedant or whatever with small details is blurry.
I would also work on material definition, the armor doesn't look like it is made out of metal currently.
I am also interested in your wireframes, you say you have 7500 triangles, and yet I'm not seeing where they are being used to help the silhouette.
If you provide more images, I will be able to give you even more feedback.
Thanks for the feedback on texturing, I think I just need more practice at it, I think I've got a solid handle on it's understanding now. My problem for the metal is within Marmoset.. In Substance Painter, the material looks great. I don't know why the metallic texture is not rendering correctly, still figuring that out : / Also, here is the cage, should I submit that as well? I see you are an alumni from the program. Congrats!
That's just it. I am not certain which texture sheets should be uploaded. Here are the textures I have that were generated from Substance Painter 2. And here are the ones I need (I know a few listed here): Diffuse map, normal map, specular map (grayscale), alpha map (1-bit).. Please enlighten me here because I've been trying to figure this out myself for awhile now and still am unsure, and nobody on polycount has replied to me when I asked about which maps I need in the tech forum.
@diglett If you're using Marmoset Toolbag 2, you're using a rendering system that defaults to the PBR Rendering pipeline as opposed to Legacy Rendering.
Do you have a handle on what that means?
Right now, the texture maps you have created, and udnerstanding what Guild Wars 2 primarily uses, it would be for a Legacy Rendering pipeline. Just plugging that into Toolbag 2 with default settings will not yield the results you want.
PBR Specularity Map DOES NOT equal Legacy Specularity Map.
@diglett I have a paintover of your wires for you, there are some areas that you should look into optimizing and re-working:
So I think I understand what your problem is with Marmoset materials: First thing is that you shouldn't be using the metallic workflow for this test which is what substance gave you, they are looking for a grey scale specular map on the art test. Unfortunately because of this you may have to re-work that map so it can correctly be what they are looking for. Next thing I think has to do with gloss, since they only ask for specular it can make it difficult for the metal to read correctly. A way to get around this is to have the metal as separate pieces so they can have their own material with a different gloss value, but with the test asking for such a low tricount that is very difficult. So the other way, which isn't the most correct in most cases but can work for this is to use the specular map in the gloss map slot.
For me to critique your textures I would need to see the diffuse mostly, since that will be the easiest to see where the problems are. When it comes to making them you can easily use Photoshop for everything except the normal maps. The 1-Bit alpha will most likely go into the alpha channel of your diffuse, 1-bit means that for everything that is white is visible, black is transparent with no or very little in-between. This method of transparency is called "cutout" and is used often in games because it's not that intensive. Substance Painter might be a little too much for this model to be honest, but if you can get it work work well with the limitations, don't let that stop you.
When you submit your test, bare minimum I think you should give them a textured render of your model, wireframe render and then a sheet of your textures.
Brian "Panda" Choi I was unaware of SP2 not being set for Legacy. PBR = physically based rendering.. legacy = outdated Might you have any suggestions for Legacy Rendering, i.e. program to use? or settings in SP2? I haven't found a legacy set up for sp2 yet but I'm still digging
@Alemja I'm not 100% on the Alpha 1 bit. a 1 bit Alpha is a black and white map that coordinates opacity (white) and transparency (black) yes? To recap everything I have 4 tasks ahead: - optimize lopoly - optimize UV texture space using as much symmetry as possible (suggestions on seems?) - Dump SP2 and figure out how to texture using Photoshop (Is this a good option to learning it tomorrow? http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutorial/190-3D-Texturing-Overview-in-Photoshop) - figure out what to use for legacy rendering and implement
@diglett ,Unless you have access to Toolbag 1, I'd just jimmy Toolbag 2 as best you can with Specular / Gloss and then use "Blinn Phong" for Reflection. GGX is a PBR based reflection solution, whereas Blinn-Phong is a a Legacy one if I recall correctly.
Brian "Panda" Choi I already have Marmoset set up for Blinn-Phong but I'll give GGX a shot after I make all of the modifications to my model. Probably not until Friday earliest though I have a lot to optimize on this model : /
I think you're complicating the texturing process a little too much with that tutorial. If you have nice UVs you can simply save out an image of you UV layout from the 3d program and then load the image into photoshop and start painting. You can load PSDs into Marmoset, though PSDs can act a little slow, TGAS or PNG work pretty well. I am still interested in seeing your texture map and how you laid out your UVs.
For the alpha this is a little example to hopefully help you understand. The render is done in marmoset, on the left is using the "Cutout" transparency, the right is using "Dither" both are using the same gradient square in the image. "Cutout" would be what you would use for 1-bit alpha, there is no semi-transparent, transparency is either on or off, dither has a blend. A lot of games still use the cutout method because it is much cheaper to render and causes less sorting issues, Guild Wars 2 uses this types of rendering for their transparency.
Overall, while you're making this, make sure you prioritize the silhouette of the original concept art. Those are one of the few things that can really help sell a character at initial blush.
@Alemja Thanks! that is what I thought, just wasn't 100% on if I was correct
Brian "Panda" Choi when I finish reducing polycount, I plan to focus on exaggerating the sillhouette primarily with the size and shape of the armor, I don't plan to distort the body of character at all.. the anatomy is correct I'm not going to mess with that aspect. I do want to emphasize the fur, and I think I understand how to create transparency using alphas thanks to the clarity from Alemja
Replies
I would also work on material definition, the armor doesn't look like it is made out of metal currently.
I am also interested in your wireframes, you say you have 7500 triangles, and yet I'm not seeing where they are being used to help the silhouette.
If you provide more images, I will be able to give you even more feedback.
Post your texture sheets.
Dyou try clicking the "Invert" checkbox in the Metallic input?
And here are the ones I need (I know a few listed here): Diffuse map, normal map, specular map (grayscale), alpha map (1-bit)..
Please enlighten me here because I've been trying to figure this out myself for awhile now and still am unsure, and nobody on polycount has replied to me when I asked about which maps I need in the tech forum.
If you're using Marmoset Toolbag 2, you're using a rendering system that defaults to the PBR Rendering pipeline as opposed to Legacy Rendering.
Do you have a handle on what that means?
Right now, the texture maps you have created, and udnerstanding what Guild Wars 2 primarily uses, it would be for a Legacy Rendering pipeline. Just plugging that into Toolbag 2 with default settings will not yield the results you want.
PBR Specularity Map DOES NOT equal Legacy Specularity Map.
I have a paintover of your wires for you, there are some areas that you should look into optimizing and re-working:
So I think I understand what your problem is with Marmoset materials:
First thing is that you shouldn't be using the metallic workflow for this test which is what substance gave you, they are looking for a grey scale specular map on the art test. Unfortunately because of this you may have to re-work that map so it can correctly be what they are looking for.
Next thing I think has to do with gloss, since they only ask for specular it can make it difficult for the metal to read correctly. A way to get around this is to have the metal as separate pieces so they can have their own material with a different gloss value, but with the test asking for such a low tricount that is very difficult. So the other way, which isn't the most correct in most cases but can work for this is to use the specular map in the gloss map slot.
For me to critique your textures I would need to see the diffuse mostly, since that will be the easiest to see where the problems are. When it comes to making them you can easily use Photoshop for everything except the normal maps. The 1-Bit alpha will most likely go into the alpha channel of your diffuse, 1-bit means that for everything that is white is visible, black is transparent with no or very little in-between. This method of transparency is called "cutout" and is used often in games because it's not that intensive. Substance Painter might be a little too much for this model to be honest, but if you can get it work work well with the limitations, don't let that stop you.
When you submit your test, bare minimum I think you should give them a textured render of your model, wireframe render and then a sheet of your textures.
I was unaware of SP2 not being set for Legacy. PBR = physically based rendering.. legacy = outdated
Might you have any suggestions for Legacy Rendering, i.e. program to use? or settings in SP2? I haven't found a legacy set up for sp2 yet but I'm still digging
@Alemja
I'm not 100% on the Alpha 1 bit. a 1 bit Alpha is a black and white map that coordinates opacity (white) and transparency (black) yes?
To recap everything I have 4 tasks ahead:
- optimize lopoly
- optimize UV texture space using as much symmetry as possible (suggestions on seems?)
- Dump SP2 and figure out how to texture using Photoshop (Is this a good option to learning it tomorrow? http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutorial/190-3D-Texturing-Overview-in-Photoshop)
- figure out what to use for legacy rendering and implement
,Unless you have access to Toolbag 1, I'd just jimmy Toolbag 2 as best you can with Specular / Gloss and then use "Blinn Phong" for Reflection. GGX is a PBR based reflection solution, whereas Blinn-Phong is a a Legacy one if I recall correctly.
Someone correct me if I am wrong about this.
I already have Marmoset set up for Blinn-Phong but I'll give GGX a shot after I make all of the modifications to my model. Probably not until Friday earliest though I have a lot to optimize on this model : /
For the alpha this is a little example to hopefully help you understand. The render is done in marmoset, on the left is using the "Cutout" transparency, the right is using "Dither" both are using the same gradient square in the image. "Cutout" would be what you would use for 1-bit alpha, there is no semi-transparent, transparency is either on or off, dither has a blend. A lot of games still use the cutout method because it is much cheaper to render and causes less sorting issues, Guild Wars 2 uses this types of rendering for their transparency.
Thanks! that is what I thought, just wasn't 100% on if I was correct
Brian "Panda" Choi
when I finish reducing polycount, I plan to focus on exaggerating the sillhouette primarily with the size and shape of the armor, I don't plan to distort the body of character at all.. the anatomy is correct I'm not going to mess with that aspect. I do want to emphasize the fur, and I think I understand how to create transparency using alphas thanks to the clarity from Alemja