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Modo 10 live (plus 30-day trial)

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  • MV79
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    MV79 polycounter lvl 3
    Bek said:
    Also all this talk of viewport FPS without mentioning conditions / tri count is pointless. Replicate these tests and list your gpu/cpu please. I'm curious what performance nvidia cards get. And more generally, let's be wary of jumping to conclusions without investigating what is actually occuring.
    Hi, i was curious and have done only a quick test with those 4 spheres with 9 million polys and got in advanced viewport with wireframe 50 fps and without 70.

    Win 8.1
    i5-2500k @4,2 Ghz
    8Gb Ram
    GTX 960 4GB Ram


  • Pizdos
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    Pizdos triangle
    Ok, so I've tried that trial, I was expecting a bit more from a paid product, also marketed as made for game devs. Disapointed. I think is just marketing. Probable nobody at Modo actually develop games or have any experience with game development.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    There are some well known game artists who use Modo, like Tor Frick and Wes McDermott.
    Also, http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=8&t=113648
  • Pizdos
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    Pizdos triangle
    As I said, I did expected a bit more. Some peoples seems to really love it and enjoy it. Good for them.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Pizdos said:
    As I said, I did expected a bit more. Some peoples seems to really love it and enjoy it. Good for them.
    Out of curiosity, what did you expect specifically? Just loading up the demo wont reveal everything you can do in the application until you know how its laid out and approaches certain workflows.
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    went crazy on 9 last year for about a month getting super obsessive, I just hope it has a better workflow in 10, found the strong suit was the geometry, but UVWs I never did work out and not from a lack of trying (think supplementing it with headus UVs might be the best bet), and then overall baking, I can't recall what exactly the issue was but it may have been related to the cage or lack of or something. 
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    went crazy on 9 last year for about a month getting super obsessive, I just hope it has a better workflow in 10, found the strong suit was the geometry, but UVWs I never did work out and not from a lack of trying (think supplementing it with headus UVs might be the best bet), and then overall baking, I can't recall what exactly the issue was but it may have been related to the cage or lack of or something. 
    Its much better with 10 via the game tools layout, new baking interface and built in vertex normal toolkit.
    For UV Unrwap, check out this pelter macro (works with both Indie and pro) http://polycount.com/discussion/151832/modo-pelting-macro-of-expanded-awesomeness#latest  you get great results fast.

  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    MV79 said:
    Win 8.1
    i5-2500k @4,2 Ghz
    8Gb Ram
    GTX 960 4GB Ram
    Interesting, thanks for that info! Much better results than my windows/amd performace.
    Pizdos said:
    Probable nobody at Modo actually develop games or have any experience with game development.
    Literally in this thread...
  • Arkadius
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    Arkadius polycounter lvl 13
    I've been using modo for a number of years and to this day it feels like its 98% there. It has some cool ideas/feature but they always feel half implemented, might just be user error I dunno.

    Anyway I tried out 10, the "what you see is what you get" had me excited, but the program seems to have an issue with alpha sorting. I was working with a ton of alpha cards intersecting and they wouldn't render properly in the view port, even used the new unreal material. 10.1v2 has some cool eye candy but, I would prefer if the program as a whole was refined as opposed what last couple of releases have been.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Arkadius said:
    I've been using modo for a number of years and to this day it feels like its 98% there. It has some cool ideas/feature but they always feel half implemented, might just be user error I dunno.

    Anyway I tried out 10, the "what you see is what you get" had me excited, but the program seems to have an issue with alpha sorting. I was working with a ton of alpha cards intersecting and they wouldn't render properly in the view port, even used the new unreal material. 10.1v2 has some cool eye candy but, I would prefer if the program as a whole was refined as opposed what last couple of releases have been.
    I agree on the first part, it sounds like the change in development style was meant in part to address that.

    On the second, regarding alpha sorting. I havent run it through that test yet but at the top of my head, I recall reading on the official forums that the transparency setting you have under the advanced viewport options may impact how its displayed. I did see a developer asking questions about it, so if its not the transparency setting I am hoping its on the list for a service pack fix.

    10.1v1 is pretty significant btw (feature update 2), maybe not quite as visual as 10.0v1 though (game tools, viewport update). We will see how this new development approach shapes up though.
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    btw anyone else struggling with the navigation like I was, it helps most to switch to Maya I have found ( even being a native max user) otherwise for me I feel like I am navigating a viewport drunk.

    System>Preferences>Remapping>Set Modo to Maya 
    System>Preferences>OpenGL>Unclick trackball Rotation, at the bottom

    if you are struggling or it feels unnatural give it a go, it helped me immensely.
  • MagicSugar
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    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    If you still use v. 902 like me, Peter Stambach's Modo to Unreal baking tutorial:
    (Bools Kit script video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTDOM7K81E)






  • Farfarer
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    Farfarer Polycount Sponsor
    The trackball is one of those things that is ON by default and you just wonder... why?
    It's weird. I hated it for the longest time, but Greg B told me to stick with it for a while and I got really used to it.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    It is still a weird decision to turn it on by default considering how that is usually the first thing people complain about when they use modo for the first time.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    I tried to get used to the trackball, but its always a mixture of fighting with the damn thing + getting a tad motion sick. I do think it should be off by default though, not because of my personal preference but rather because its probably turning a lot of new users off from the start. Better to make it feel familiar first, then let the exploration take them places.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Trackball rotation is the best. I know I copypaste this every time it comes up but it might help those wondering why trackball rotation is even a thing in the first place:

    “modo uses a rotation method known as ‘trackball rotation’ by default. This is by far my favorite way to work, and I highly recommend getting used to it. Basically it means that when you drag to rotate the viewport, the behavior is based on where you drag. Imagine the viewport is overlayed with a giant trackball. If you click and drag the middle of the trackball, things rotate from the middle. If you drag the edge of the trackball, things pivot sideways, as if you’re turning the trackball from the side, like a steering wheel. Click anywhere in between, and the effect is somewhere in the middle. The beauty of this system is that it works perfectly from any angle: you can flip your model upside-down, and work on it the same as if it were right-side-up. People who are not used to trackball rotation find it difficult to control simply because they’re not used to it: give it time, and you won’t want to go back!” — Adam OHern writing for CADjunkie.com
    As for being default, eh, that could probably change. But then it wouldn't come up on the forums as often and I wouldn't get to be all evangelical about it...
  • Farfarer
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    Farfarer Polycount Sponsor
    Yeah, by default, Modo does have some weird settings. Like the copy and paste options, I usually check the first two boxes to get something that behaves like what I would expect from any app. But it's great that all those things are there and you are free to change what your want to your needs and adapt modo to your own workflow.



    Weird, I always check the second and third options :P

    But yeah the strange defaults are there because that's how the system used to work before the preferences were added, so that when they were added it didn't alienate all the existing users.
  • Hristo Rusanov
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    Hristo Rusanov polycounter lvl 7
    The trackball is one of those things that is ON by default and you just wonder... why?
    Trackball is awesome. Once you get used to it there is no turning back. :)
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    The trackball is one of those things that is ON by default and you just wonder... why?
    Trackball is awesome. Once you get used to it there is no turning back. :)
    I can't think of any reason why I would actually want to roll the camera, and it's very rough getting it back in place when it happens accidentally. It annoys me in ZBrush, too.
  • Arkadius
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    Arkadius polycounter lvl 13

    On the second, regarding alpha sorting. I havent run it through that test yet but at the top of my head, I recall reading on the official forums that the transparency setting you have under the advanced viewport options may impact how its displayed. I did see a developer asking questions about it, so if its not the transparency setting I am hoping its on the list for a service pack fix.
    I tried it out and the view displays the alpha correctly! But now I know why they have it off by default I get 10-20 fps, which makes its still unusable.  I have every other setting either off or on lowest. :/
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz hero character
    Grimwolf said:
    think of any reason why I would actually want to roll the camera, and it's very rough getting it back in place when it happens accidentally. It annoys me in ZBrush, too.
    That's where ZBrushs angle snap comes into play (alt+shift+lmb). Trackball without that is a pita imo.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Arkadius said:
    I tried it out and the view displays the alpha correctly! But now I know why they have it off by default I get 10-20 fps, which makes its still unusable.  I have every other setting either off or on lowest. :/
    Alright so I spent a bit of time delving into the problem. My conclusion is that correct transparency (viewport option) does fix the problem of sorting, as you noticed... and also as you pointed out literally destroys the performance within the viewport. So with that said, you can try turning off VBO under the OpenGL display settings, which gives it a massive speed boost... but you may also find your viewport empty as a result, which makes it pointless. Thats just on my end though so its worth trying on yours.

    All that said, I am told that the viewport has only gone through some raw optimizations and that it will continue to improved upon performance wise. Its a bit frustrating but the viewport is supposedly one of the most modern/advanced out there, and what we see is just ground work.
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    PolyHertz said:
    Grimwolf said:
    think of any reason why I would actually want to roll the camera, and it's very rough getting it back in place when it happens accidentally. It annoys me in ZBrush, too.
    That's where ZBrushs angle snap comes into play (alt+shift+lmb). Trackball without that is a pita imo.
    If I think waaaaay back I remember having those same discomforts, which obviously faded. I guess you have to loosen up to the trackball way and ignore the compulsion to view things from a particular angle - that's what the ortho modes are for. Trackball rotation also involves a liberal use of A / shift+A (zoom to selection) and alt+mmb (camera rotate).
  • Farfarer
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    Farfarer Polycount Sponsor
    Bek said:
    If I think waaaaay back I remember having those same discomforts, which obviously faded. I guess you have to loosen up to the trackball way and ignore the compulsion to view things from a particular angle - that's what the ortho modes are for. Trackball rotation also involves a liberal use of A / shift+A (zoom to selection) and alt+mmb (camera rotate).
    There's also shift+ctrl+a which will zoom to selection and align to average selection normal (I only found out about that one the other day).
  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    Whoah, that's awesome. It'd be great for camera positioning... I love that every time a modo thread pops up I learn something new. Thanks for that!

    I'll share something I did today; I was pondering a way to select every Nth vert without having to hold the up arrow forever, ideally from an intial edge selection (that would be looped); I ended up just making the world's laziest "script" (probably macro-able just as easily) to repeat the 'select.more' command (bound to ctrl+shift+up, of course). Does anyone know of a more elegant solution? I assume something like this has to exist already. Though admitedly this works well enough.

    #python
    for num in range(1,256):
    lx.eval("select.more")
  • kadeschui
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    kadeschui greentooth
    Farfarer said:
    Bek said:
    If I think waaaaay back I remember having those same discomforts, which obviously faded. I guess you have to loosen up to the trackball way and ignore the compulsion to view things from a particular angle - that's what the ortho modes are for. Trackball rotation also involves a liberal use of A / shift+A (zoom to selection) and alt+mmb (camera rotate).
    There's also shift+ctrl+a which will zoom to selection and align to average selection normal (I only found out about that one the other day).
    I love this command! so much better than a simple "zoom extents selected" like in max too.
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    Farfarer said:
    Bek said:
    If I think waaaaay back I remember having those same discomforts, which obviously faded. I guess you have to loosen up to the trackball way and ignore the compulsion to view things from a particular angle - that's what the ortho modes are for. Trackball rotation also involves a liberal use of A / shift+A (zoom to selection) and alt+mmb (camera rotate).
    There's also shift+ctrl+a which will zoom to selection and align to average selection normal (I only found out about that one the other day).
    wow great info! can't believe I just learned this command after all these years. 
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Looks like Modo 10 Indie just went live.
    Its given away FREE for anyone with a 901 Indie license.

    Great way to test out the new improvements.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    10.1 information is now public. http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=3&t=122339
    Procedural modeling.





    And with MeshFusion..






  • thomasp
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    thomasp quad damage
    the choice of name suggests this procedural approach is only available in modelling or is it a general concept throughout the app then? because the latter is what makes the stack-equipped apps so tasty.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    thomasp said:
    the choice of name suggests this procedural approach is only available in modelling or is it a general concept throughout the app then? because the latter is what makes the stack-equipped apps so tasty.

    Right now its being sold as..."an early sneak peek at the procedural modeling system in MODO 10.1. Our main goal with this initial release is to build a better modeling stack approach within MODO. There is much more to it than just that—this robust new system is being developed to support presets, third-party development, and a nodal relationship graph as well. "

    They have said there is a lot going on under the hood that wont be completely obvious right out of the door... but that the framework is being built so it can expand to other parts of Modo. There was mention of it going into the particle system and assembly presents. Right now I think they are mostly looking at motion graphics and 3rd party tool/preset creation, and of course this helps everyone.



  • NBLM
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    NBLM polycounter lvl 7
    I wasn't really keen to upgrade to 10 just because of a better viewport, but this is really cool stuff.

    I hope they make a summer sale this year too.
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