What should I do in future? Can I get work VISA without degree?
polycounter lvl 2
I'm in 2nd year in Computer science in India. I started doing 3D modeling last year and I love doing game art more than programming. I am learning CG on my own via Digital tutors and some other sites and not going to any college. So what should i do next? Should I finish computer science (2 years left to finish it) ? or should I drop out of college and start learning more and then finally find a job in CG industry?
Other qustion:
If i get job in any company (US,canada) can i get work VISA without having any degree? I want to move to another country(Canada probably) for this.
check my portfolio if possible ( www.kunalht.com ) I know its not ready and obviously i can't get job with this portfolio. But i'm learning environment art and will make some more projects and put it in my portfolio. So maybe in 4-6 months i'll be ready.
So should i finish computer science ? Will it help me getting VISA (even not in same kind of job but in CG industry) ?
I really don't want to pay too much for any 3D modeling course in any college as they're very costly and so self learning is what i want to do.
Also any advise on making my portfolio better?
Thank you!
Other qustion:
If i get job in any company (US,canada) can i get work VISA without having any degree? I want to move to another country(Canada probably) for this.
check my portfolio if possible ( www.kunalht.com ) I know its not ready and obviously i can't get job with this portfolio. But i'm learning environment art and will make some more projects and put it in my portfolio. So maybe in 4-6 months i'll be ready.
So should i finish computer science ? Will it help me getting VISA (even not in same kind of job but in CG industry) ?
I really don't want to pay too much for any 3D modeling course in any college as they're very costly and so self learning is what i want to do.
Also any advise on making my portfolio better?
Thank you!
Replies
I know it is tempting to focus totally on 3d, but I remember stories for great artists that had tons of experience but no degree, having serious issues getting a US visa. 2 years of experience = 1 year of school, which would mean if you drop out you would need 8 years of solid industry experience just to equal a 4 year degree.
Thanks for reply. You are right about scripting. Other thing I'm thinking is does certificate course on any 3D/game design helps to get VISA? For example getting student VISA is easier than work VISA . So if i choose any college in canada/US which is very cheap and i can get degree/certificate in less time ? Should I do that? If yes than any suggestion on colleges/course in canada(or online) which are very cheap?
Yeah thats what I thought. Can you suggest me any colleges with less price and short duration course? Thanks
The portfolio is for your employer - they may not even care about the degree.
Certificates usually mean very little to nothing to immigration. To game/3D emplyers they also don't mean much, because they are interested about your portfolio. i.e. you should "show" us your skills. We don't care much about any certifications printed on paper.
A final tip: If you want a job, learn not just for a degree. Learn something that is useful for what you plan to do. If you know and love what you're doing, then you will be good at it. This will get you hired.
Good luck!
yeah you're right! thanks!!
I would like to amend a few mistakes about the US immigration policies, as I am going through them myself.
First and foremost, the most reliable source of information about the US immigration is the US government website: http://www.uscis.gov/
Rules can change every year, and there are a few law proposals that might affect it deeply if approved. So the most up to date information is there.
To work in the US as a non-immigrant worker, you need a H-1B visa. In order to apply for it, you need as a minimum 12 points. The rules to calculate them are on the USCIS website, but as a general rule: 1 year of university earns you 3 points, while 1 year of work earns you 1 point. It means that you need either a degree of 4 years or 12 years of work, or mixed solutions like a 3 years' degree and 3 years of work.
It is very important to stress that: the degree must be completed, and both the degree and the years of work must be relevant to the job you are going to take in the US. A degree in literature for a job in CG won't work, likewise five years as philosophy teacher. Both the degree and the work years must be certifiable, you cannot just say I did freelancing or studied on my own.
A bachelor in computer science is a marketable skill in the computer graphics industry. As someone said, you might put it to use very well as a technical artist if you like coding, and good TAs are valued more than environment artists because there are way less, therefore it is easier to get a job in the CG industry which is extremely competitive. In other words: why should a top studio in the US relocate you from India, rather than take some US citizen? The answer is: you should show them you are worthwhile.
So my two cents: complete your degree in computer science at your best, while doing it start veering it toward topics related to the CG industry. As an example, whatever 3D software you're using, it is got to have an API, SDK, or at least it must be scriptable. Start looking into that and see what kind of possibilities it gives you, play with it. If you want to learn properly, use Polycount, which means show everything you do, art and code (in the form of finished usable tools) and ask for critique, listen, learn, repeat.
Good luck
- Enrico
Hi. Thank you for this information. I'll finish computer science degree then. I'll learn MEL for MAYA and python.
So, i did some research. I really liked your idea about scripting. where should I start? For example in maya should I start learning MEL and MAYA scripting?
I found this link : http://help.autodesk.com/view/MAYAUL/2016/ENU/?guid=__files_API_Introduction_htm is this the correct place to start?
If you have any other site/way can you tell me where should I start and where can i learn about this?
I can give you my personal series of study references. Keep in mind it is my own study path, not what every TA should know. As a matter of fact "technical artist" is quite a blurry definition, they can be more art oriented: artists who can script a bit, or more code oriented: coders who write tools for the 3D software or shaders prototypes that can do art too and define quality standards and budgets along with the engine programmers. As a very broad definition a TA "makes things work" which means he stays in-between the art and code sides of production and make them work well together speaking both parties' language.
If you are going for Maya, let's have a brief introduction to how can you code for it, from script to native code:
■ MEL (Maya Embedded Language)
It is the oldest way of scripting for Maya. It is a proprietary scripting language, quite simple (and limited imo) and it gives access to almost anything in Maya, from the scene to the environment itself. You can find a brief guide on the Autodesk's documentation: MEL and Expressions
■ Python commands
Autodesk introduced the support for Python in Maya a few versions ago. They wrapped the MEL commands in a Python module. While the functionality it offers is pretty much the same as the original MEL, it adds the nicety of the Python language, that's much more versatile and flexible than MEL. It also gives you access to the extensive set of libraries available for Python. Python in Maya
■ PyMEL
PyMEL is an alternative way of wrapping the original MEL commands in a more object oriented way. It was written as a private initiative by a few studios and while it is not officially supported by Autodesk, it is included in every recent version of Maya. It seems fair to assume it is going to stay. There is an extensive PyMEL help accessible from the docs: PyMEL for Maya
■ Maya Python API 1.0
It is a Python wrapper of the Maya API. It gives access to almost the same features that are available though the native C++ API that are not available from MEL. It allows to extend Maya through the creation of new commands, nodes, shapes, shaders and so on. This is the first version and it is going to be superseded by the new one:
■ Maya Python API 2.0
It is the new version of the Python wrapper of the Maya API. Its implementation is still underway, but by version 2016 it should be in a usable state. It means that most of the API classes have wrapped and are usable from python. Maya Python API
■ Maya API (C++)
It is the native API that allows to write plugins and extend Maya to the fullest and with the highest possible performance. Maya API introduction
You can start from what's already freely available on the official documentation and integrate with further resources later.
MAYA
■ David Gould - Complete Maya Programming: An Extensive Guide to MEL and C++ API
■ David Gould - Complete Maya Programming Volume II, Volume 2: An In-depth Guide to 3D Fundamentals, Geometry, and Modeling
While a bit dated, both books are still very good and relevant. The core of Maya hasn't changed and the broad majority of the information is still relevant. The first volume is a must, as it covers the fundamental principles of programming for Maya, the second covers more specific topics and starts from a refresh in linear algebra which is the absolute minimum requirement for any 3D programmer. No python here, as it wasn't in Maya yet.
■ Adam Mechtley and Ryan Trowbridge - Maya Python for Games and Film: A Complete Reference for Maya Python and the Maya Python API
This is a quick introduction to Python and how it works within Maya. I skipped here and there to find the information I needed. If you already know Python and are willing to struggle a bit with the official Maya documentation, you might skip it.
■ Robert Galanakis - Practical Maya Programming with Python
I don't have this yet, but according to the reviews it seems a pretty good one. I think it is worth checking.
PYTHON
There are plenty of books on Python, so I want to stress that this is my very personal selection:
Beginner:
■ Naomi R. Ceder - The Quick Python Book, Second Edition
Intermediate:
■ Dusty Phillips - Python 3 Object Oriented Programming
Advanced:
■ Micha Gorelick and Ian Ozsvald - High Performance Python: Practical Performant Programming for Humans
They would take you from beginner to know Python inside out. Again this is my very personal selection, there are many other books that are equally valuable and might work better for you.
■ Michael T. Goodrich, Roberto Tamassia, Michael H. Goldwasser - Data Structures and Algorithms in Python
While filed under the Python section this more a general programming book about algorithms and data structures. It bases all of its implementation on Python, which is a plus in this case.
■ Mark Summerfield - Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt
Last but definitely not least, you'll need to know Qt in Python, either through PyQt or PySide, and this book is pretty much the only one that starts from the basics and brings you all the way to advanced GUI design.
■ Yasin Uludag - PyQT4 MVC Methodology Tutorial Series
I found the part on the MVC a little confusing. If you struggle to get the big picture I recommend these video tutorials on youtube. Yasin explains the topics in a very accessible way, writing the code entirely from scratch and explaining every step.
C++
This is huge field, and I don't feel like starting it. I can just point you to an historical thread on StackOverflow. I agree with most of the recommendations there: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List
Good luck
- Enrico
First of all, Thank you very much for this information. It is really helpful for me.
For C++, there is a subject (Object oriented programming with C++ ) in our college in this semester. So i know basic concepts of C++ and OOP.
I'll start learning MEL and python quickly from the books you gave.
so
1) Does Technical artist(those who use MEL,Python etc) differ from game developers and game programmers(those who use C++/C# in Unreal engine 4/Unity/any game engine? and does it differ from game engine developers?
2) Should I keep learning 3D modeling(environment art specially) in side with scripting?
3)Is knowledge of rigging and animation require for scripting in MAYA as I don't know much about rigging/animation.
4) Is MEL,Python and MAYA API with C++ , enough to be a technical artist? or do i need to learn other software's SDK/scripting as well OR game engine related programming as well?
thanks again.
I can answer your questions only from a very personal point of view, and I think that every TA might answer differently.
1) A technical artist usually doesn't touch the game engine code. As a matter of fact, I think not many TAs know anything about C++, and focus on MEL / MaxScript / Python. The TA usually writes scripts and tools for the DCC software used by the studio, like Maya, 3ds Max, Modo, etc. to help the production of assets made by the artists and designer and used by the game engine. As an example, you work for a studio specialized in racing games, you might be writing tools that allow to automate/ease the construction of the drivable surface and quickly test it in game with a fast export solution.
The tools that are working with the DCC software and maybe require interfacing with the game, or just need to be written in C++ for performance reasons, are generally written by tools programmers, usually with the collaboration of TAs for the usability part in the software.
The engine programmers work on the game engine code, which is separated from the tools code, apart from the data I/O. They write or extend the game engine which consumes the assets made by artists and designers and use them to "make the game", ultimately what you play. Engine programmers are generally oblivious of the art production pipeline and are concerned only with the data they are fed, like meshes, textures and such.
2) This is really up to you. If you want to become a technical artists, you should be at least a decent artist. Since you should write tools for artists and designers you should also know what are the issues with the software and how to address them, not just because you are told, but because you've experienced them. But you should do what you want to do and you enjoy doing. Learning all these things requires a lot of effort and the only way to find the motivation is by loving what you do. You don't want to take a way that down the road makes you unhappy because you wanted to do "something else". Bottom line, stay focused but don't restrain yourself. If along the way you find out you want to be an environment artist and give up coding, go for it, your knowledge is going to be there if later you'll want to pick up coding again.
3) Rigging and animation are a specific field for TAs. While it is better to know at least a bit of the entire art production pipeline, it is not required to master any specific topic. The beauty of the technical art is that you can decide for yourself what you like the most and spend more time on it. Of course keep in mind that every studio has his own requirements, so they might look specifically for a TA rigger and you must excel at that, but again it is up to you. TAs generally don't do animation, it is a job for animation artists. To give another example, TAs might be asked to write tools to simplify the process of cleaning up the data coming from motion capture.
4) This depends again entirely on you. Since the definition of a TA is quite vague, and even within the same studio TAs are different from each other, there is not a checklist of things to know to be a TA. Again I can give very general directions based on my own experience.
C++ is at the very "cody" end of the TA spectrum and is not really a usual requirement. In my personal opinion knowing C++ well enough as a TA gives you "the sixth gear". You are able to write your own plugins without the need for other tools programmers and clearly the more you can do by yourself, the more valuable you are.
MEL (PyMEL) / MaxScript are usually the main requirement for a TA, depending on the software adopted by the studio. You should also know the software from a user point of view very well. Countless times I was asked how to do something with the standard features offered by the software, before writing a bespoke solution.
Further scripting languages like Python / Lua are a requirement depending on the internal tools pipeline of the studio.
I would suggest to browse for TA positions and see for yourself what the studios are asking for. You will see a lot of differences among them, because every studio sees TAs in a different way. I didn't mention that they might even be asked to write prototype shaders in HLSL or GLSL, much closer to graphics programming.
You can have a look at jobs opening by going through the list in this collection thread: Company job boards
- Enrico
This.
I hired quite a few junior TAs from college with a computer science background. While many of them were really good at grasping technical things, they lacked an understanding of the bigger picture and the issues encountered by the artists. They cannot quite put themselves into the artists' shoes, which makes it difficult for them to support them the best way possible.
If you're not ever going to work as an artist, then you should do your utmost to follow current art production tools, techniques and workflows. This is of course much easier done if you create art yourself, rather than just reading about it.
If you learn to code, I would also recommend not just learning languages, but first, and foremost, good software design and good practices. We TAs have long been suffering from "cowboy coding" practices, lack of documentation and scripts understood by nobody other than the script's author, which made us bang our heads on the desks in frustration and re-invent the wheel over and over and over. Get some books like "The Pragmatic Programmer" or "Code Complete". Your future team mates who will have to work with your code will love you for it
I'm in the same position of Kunalht but i'm 1 year from finish it. In my case is Software Engineering but that means if i apply a job for a character artist position, then my 5 years degree doesn't count?
As for Kunalht, i felt the same 2 years ago but i couldn't leave the university because i had a contract. Everytime i go there or do assignments that i don't want to do is like something is killing me inside me. I try to get the lowest grade possible without having the risk to fail the courses so i can use my time to do art. But still it's a very tough situation and very stressful. And the worst thing is that i'm having a big debt for it.
For instance, i'm taking Scott Eaton's class right now and i'm 1 week from finish it. But i wish i had more time to took the best out of the course with the assignments, doing more than what is asked.
I tried to go into the technical side too some time ago, but it didn't work for me because what i really wanted was to make art, in the more traditional way of seeing it.
So my advice is, if you really want the degree and have the chance to change your career, do it. Because it will be a very tough situation of wanting to do something you really love but it will always hold you back. You said you started to like the 3d and experimented with it, i'm sure coding scripts wasn't the reason that drived you to do it. But the best you can do right now is experiment, not every person is the same.
I can point you to Understanding H-1B Requirements, where you can find all the criteria to be eligible for a H-1B visa.
- Enrico
Yes you're right about that!
And Does this (degree require OR experience ) thing apply to other countries like Canada or european countries to get work VISA ? As i prefer canada more than USA (some of my family members are already there + I like it more).
So you're still doing software engineering? And what will you do after finishing it (after 1 year)?
haha i also think the same way!!
From what I heard over the years the US seems to be most difficult. Americans claim the EU ain't easy either. Canada is supposed to be easier, especially for well educated people.
As a junior you can likely learn a lot of new things in pretty much any games studio. Location becomes more important once you know the ropes and when you fall into your specialization. Then you will want to have more choice in studios, to find a place that really suits your chosen path.
I do disagree with this. I understand the painful situation you both are in, but I think you must try to make the most of it. There is no such thing as "bad knowledge". The more you know, the better, always. Rather than flying low, why not steer your studies in the direction you want. Character art is far from Computer Science per se, but there are a lot of concepts that are going to come back in other form. For example anything related to rigging, or mesh topology, understanding the data flow generated by your beautiful characters... Why do you need to retopologize the ZBrush scuplts? Why do you need LODs? What's going to happen to your nice textures when the mip-maps are generated? Computer Science doesn't teach you this (I guess) but it gives you all of the knowledge and instruments to understand it properly.
On top of that, keep in mind that as a proof of your studies, to apply for a visa, it is required the transcript of your university exams, which is a list with date and mark of every exam taken and the final degree score.
- Enrico
SyncViewS, i understand your point of view and i tried to do that at first. The first 2 years i was interested and i learned a lot: computer science, data bases, good coding practices, continous integration, etc. I don't think i'm getting out without knowing anything but the more i knew about art and wanted to do with my future, the more i lost the interest in Ingeenering. And when i took the decision to learn 3d art instead of waiting to finish the career to do it i knew it was going to be hard but, it became harder and harder than i thought, specially the last year. I regret so much about signing a contract, and even when i'm 1 year from finish it i desesperately want to get out, this is just getting worst. Specially knowing that my university is the kind of one that only interest in money, like many out there.
The only good thing i can take out of it, is that i made a lot of friends/contacts, that is the only one. But you know, cry to the river. Whatever you choose it will take a lot of dedication from your part to stand out in this industry, with or without university. They say life is about decisions, what we decide when we are young is what we will live when we are older. In my case, i strongly feel i made a bad decision, and i regret about it EVERY DAY, there's nothing worst than doing something you don't like and is stopping you from making you what you love, but i can not let that beat me, that would be even worse.
This is something people need to really understand because it's base of so many rumors. It's easy to get in when you have A JOB, a FAMILY or a SCHOOL waiting for you, it's harder if you have NOTHING and you plan on finding something. You also need money, they ask for enough money to be able to live 1 year without any income If you don't have it in your bank account, well it's harder almost impossible i think.
Also regarding the job thing in our industry, from a junior point of view it's perfect crap rumors due the fact our government gave subvention to the entertainment industry, yes we have many company, No we don't have many job, you have close to no chance to get a junior position with relocation. Why ? Because they wanna spend money on Senior with tones of experiences and awesome folio, they already have WAY too much junior for the amount of junior job here. The placement isn't even 50% Every years there's around 400 graduates in the 2 major city of Quebec and there's maybe 150jobs. Maybe a little bit more. In my class out of 26 students, we were only 9 to get a job, 6 of them were handed by the school who push them in company. In last years class 50% of them doesn't have a job yet either. So Why would company pay to get a junior from out of the country when they have so much junior here looking for a job ? (And it's not because people are bad, there's a lot of good people who doesn't find a job)
I've seen so many people on polycount thinking the minute they'll get to Canada they will have a free junior job waiting for you, It's all lie, we're not the golden land of free job. We're the golden land of maple syrup and ketchup chips.
that's actually what I'm assuming - that you are in the process of getting a job, that leads you to getting a VISA. There are countries where getting the job is the hard part and the VISA the easy. And then there's the US where you just get turned down because everyone involved in hiring knows there's no way to get youy past the rules and regulations
I think Hazardous, who's an immensely talented guy, wrote about his problems in regards to US Visas.
If you just emmigrate without a job, well, then I assume it's difficult no matter where you go.
On top of this, X amount of years work experience doesn't actually count for much, particularly for US/Canada. You need to be able to demonstrate that you're talented, either through being well-known, having done conferences or have had publications. This is why it's more common for Senior/Leads to move, most companies will struggle to place people without those titles.
Having a degree is pretty much step one, although I have friends who do not have a degree and they were able to move to the US through joining a company that had a US studio but it's extremely difficult. My colleague was able to move from Romania, to Montreal, to San Francisco this way though, all within the same company.
As a foreigner living in Canada, it's definitely apparent to me that there are less and less foreign workers, perhaps there are less jobs or maybe they're just more strict - who can blame them really, they have to be able to keep their graduates.