Lost my programmer and don't know what to do now :(
polycounter lvl 7
Sorry if I'm venting a little bit here. Even though I'm mainly a lurker I love this community and can't really talk to my other friends about my specific issue here since they don't understand much about the industry.
I've been working on various projects with this one dude for over 3 years now. He would code and I would art and it was great. I haven't met a better, harder working programmer than him. For the last year we've been working on-and-off between our regular jobs on a game that I really think would be fun and possibly be a launching point for something bigger. We both vowed to stick with it until we get the damned thing done or we get a job that would prohibit us from working on it. Today I heard that my friend got a job at a game company that I know for a fact has a strict noncompete agreement.
Obviously, I'm super-excited for him but it really took the wind out of my sails. I'm working at a company that says it can do simulations but it really is just me and one programmer who doesn't know what they're doing. My job felt like a way to help pay for development of this thing but now it feels like stereotypical, soulless, gray-cubicle-land. I won't knock having a job itself, but really what was getting me through the weeks was the thought that I'm working on something creative and fun outside work.
As I'm sure you guys know it's hard to find team members for personal projects who won't flake out at a the first sign of difficulty or that cause drama. I have no idea where to start looking or if it's even possible to get someone of that caliber willing to work on this thing. I've been to a couple Baltimore/ DC dev meetups but everyone seems to have their own thing going on or, no offence to them, not very competent.
Sorry for venting, but I feel like I had to say this somewhere where people would understand the industry and why I can't 'just find another programmer'.
If anyone has any suggestions for what to do or where I could find someone I would be super-grateful.
I've been working on various projects with this one dude for over 3 years now. He would code and I would art and it was great. I haven't met a better, harder working programmer than him. For the last year we've been working on-and-off between our regular jobs on a game that I really think would be fun and possibly be a launching point for something bigger. We both vowed to stick with it until we get the damned thing done or we get a job that would prohibit us from working on it. Today I heard that my friend got a job at a game company that I know for a fact has a strict noncompete agreement.
Obviously, I'm super-excited for him but it really took the wind out of my sails. I'm working at a company that says it can do simulations but it really is just me and one programmer who doesn't know what they're doing. My job felt like a way to help pay for development of this thing but now it feels like stereotypical, soulless, gray-cubicle-land. I won't knock having a job itself, but really what was getting me through the weeks was the thought that I'm working on something creative and fun outside work.
As I'm sure you guys know it's hard to find team members for personal projects who won't flake out at a the first sign of difficulty or that cause drama. I have no idea where to start looking or if it's even possible to get someone of that caliber willing to work on this thing. I've been to a couple Baltimore/ DC dev meetups but everyone seems to have their own thing going on or, no offence to them, not very competent.
Sorry for venting, but I feel like I had to say this somewhere where people would understand the industry and why I can't 'just find another programmer'.
If anyone has any suggestions for what to do or where I could find someone I would be super-grateful.
Replies
I have to chime in with the previous poster and also agree that you can only rely on yourself when it comes to heavy commitment. Code the stuff yourself until you find others to help you.
I know this post doesnt seem helpful but it is intended to be.
Good luck.
no I think the point is it's a lot easier to post some art as to post some code at online boards.
coding is a lot of fun and there are a lot of coders outside. But if you're a coder you have to work longer on one "thing" before it's ready to be shown/used
anyhow.. I would say.. give yourself a pseudonym and continue working.
The other alternative of course, is to learn how to do that stuff yourself and stop being reliant on another person.
I suppose all I'm saying is that it's fairly common and something that will help you develop as a professional, dealing with that situation. As a small indie (especially a one-man band) you're the whole business, from top management all the way down to receptionist.
Going through the process of finding a suitable programmer will help you learn about the hiring process - a very valuable skill to have.
I feel your pain after going through several stalled projects myself. Chin-up fella, onward and upward!
You might want to try getting a programmer who is happy to work for you or with you.
I personally go to "http://www.dreamincode.net/" for programmer's guide.
the other sites like: "http://www.gamedev.net/" will also help you out in this matter.
I wish you good luck with your projects and future endeavours.
THIS!!!
After hanging around in some more programming based circles the last few months, one realisation i've come to is that the grass isn't greener on the other side.
As artists, we tend to surround ourselves with other artists, and therefor we get the false impression that there are loads of artists and no programmers. But some programmers i've talked to have complained of the exact opposite, that they have no trouble finding other programmers but artists are a rare commodity.
So, start looking for programming forums, irc channels etc. and make friends with them.
I`ve been in a similar situation and ended up learning to program on my own, because i didn`t want to replace him with anyone else.
Playing both/all roles at the same time is very taxing and time consuming, but also incredibly rewarding, and coding skills are just an amazing thing to have. Coding and Art skills at once - It`s like, LOOK AT ME IMA MAGIC KNIGHT.
I don`t know how complex your project is, but if it`s something rather small and simple, you could give it a try if you feel any affinity/interest in it - Both Unity and UE have a ton of learning ressources available, and there`s blueprint/playmaker to help try out bits of logic quicker and in a visual way.
Though it will still take some months to get into it properly.
Or, if your project has some substance to it already and your programmer wants this too, you could try showing it to the gaming company that hired him - maybe you could complete it under their wing at some point?
Either way, give it some thought - it`d be much better than having to let go of all you`ve worked on so far.
just because its in his contract, does not mean they absolutely have to enforce this for everything.
get a written permit and all is good
Does anyone have experience with working on a project with someone long-distance? I'm worried about a similar situation to what @oXYnary is mentioning. I would ideally like to have someone local (Baltimore/ DC region) but I know that beggars can't be choosers.
@Nitewalkr The project is in UE and we're using C++.
My friend and I were working on this out of our own pockets because of the love for the project. Any suggestions on finding someone with similar views? As artists, we all know how much of a jerk move it is to ask someone to 'work for experience'. I'm kind of worried about promising rev-sharing because of some horror stories I've heard.
Does anyone have suggestions of sites to find potential programmers who would be willing to work on a project? (besides Nitewalkr's suggestions, that is)
I was a CS major before getting into art. Having seen both sides it seems to me that competent programmers tend to be quite busy with work while similarly skilled 3D game artists often are not. Keep in mind, my experiences are only with entry level skill-sets. I assume this dynamic changes with more mid-senior level experience.
I think the difficulty comes in finding a programmer who loves to code and one who has free-time. They are usually gainfully employed.
Your last line in the stated quote leaves me blank. I dont know why but whenever I read "we are working on our own project," automatically makes me think that one is building his own tools from ground up rather then using UE, and I have been wrong many times in this matter and even got yelled at. UE and C++ makes it a bit easier, I was also going to ask if you have made a post in UE community? I'll wait for this thread to flow and see where it takes you. It is also an experience for me. I also had an impression that many independent game developer teams know pretty much everything like one day they could be working on some art and the next day they could be coding and so on.
I am again, apologize if I my posts were misleading and I am truly sorry for your loss.
EDIT : And your info link is broken (http://www.moddb.com/games/overdoseoverdose).
I'm not sure how far along you are with your project, but depending on what needs to be done, you could be better off just hiring somebody to work on very specific systems or features within the game, rather than trying to find somebody that can do it all.
Alternatively, as suggested earlier, you could just spend the time to learn how to write code yourself. I don't know the details or complexity about your project, but if you actively work hard at learning you could gain a good amount of knowledge in just 2-3 months which would be more than enough time to allow you to learn how to write at least some of the code for your game.
If you do happen to find somebody, then you should make a very strong attempt to keep good communication at all times. You should clearly define exactly what needs to be done and frequently communicate with them daily or weekly depending on what needs to be done. Working remotely can often lead to miscommunications, so it is important to check with the person often to make sure they know what they should be doing.
Q2 engine, that's been re-written to be on par with UE3-4... So no, not really, as its a lot more advanced than even Doom 3 lol.
Why...why...why????
Seriously, why?
Q2 engine licence is cheap as chips. Plus we started out by making Quake II Evolved, so it was just a natural progression. Now, we have a more advanced map format than Doom 3 by a long shot, more features, better netcode than any of them etc etc... We are adding SSR atm. Plus its all scriptable, every last thing. Gameplay, weapons, particles and FX, the lot. Meaning you can download OverDose and make mods with no coding knowledge at all. I like my Duckie Gun Launcher, fires Duckies that explode. We also created our own tools, including level editor.
And if that wasn't enough, each player also supports custom heads that players can create and import into the game. So shit like this is now possible without treading on legal issues:
My city has a pretty small game dev community but every month we have a beer night where we all set a theme and work on month long game jams. With limited time i much rather work with people locally than online. Especially since these events are great for networking and are why got me my job.