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Blender Mega Thread

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  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    Great, thanks Pior!

    EDIT: Is there anything like Maya's viewport 2.0 or the Xoliul shader for Blender, just to preview game meshes?
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    does blender have features to edit and store vertex normals, multiple UV-sets and mesh triangulation on quads? does it allow to copy/transfer/project mesh attributes?
    indispensable stuff in my experience.

    also what are people's experiences with stability? can it handle large scenes reliably?
  • Yadoob
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    Yadoob polycounter lvl 7
    does blender have features to edit and store vertex normals, multiple UV-sets and mesh triangulation on quads? does it allow to copy/transfer/project mesh attributes?
    Those things are coming : http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects both handled by Mont29 (hired for game related tasks). Multiple UV-sets and triangulation are already in.
    I would like to say, for the new incomers (welcome first^^) that Blender is more of a really competent swiss knife with awesome accessibility (and quite decent modeing tools). But he don't (and as far as it goes, he won't) replace specialize tools like Zbrush, Mari and others even if you see Paint and Sculpt tool featured in Blender. But, yes, it certainly worth a try, i'm quite sure you'll be really happy for some situations to have it aside.
  • Equanim
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    Equanim polycounter lvl 11
    I've been using Blender as sort of a glue program around Maya LT. (The only reason being a fluid transition to full Maya when work requires it.) Sometimes Blender does something better, or if I need to render a nice still or animation but don't want to pay the extra overhead, Blender usually fills the gaps.
  • Martin_H
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    Martin_H polycounter lvl 6
    thomasp wrote: »
    does blender have features to edit and store vertex normals, multiple UV-sets and mesh triangulation on quads? does it allow to copy/transfer/project mesh attributes?
    indispensable stuff in my experience.

    also what are people's experiences with stability? can it handle large scenes reliably?


    In terms of stability I'm pretty happy with it. I have used it for more than 10 years though and have a pretty good sense of what might get it to crash. I always save before I start a simulation or any other extremely performance hungry task.
    Random out of the blue crashes are very very rare in my experience.

    Please define "large scene". You currently can't take a 10 million polygon mesh from zBrush to blender and still work with it. When you want to retopo in Blender you'd have to export a lower resolution mesh from zBrush to retopo and use another tool like xnormal for baking. Blender has some baking functionality but it is neither very conveniently integrated nor powerful imho. E.g. it can not bake curvature maps.
  • ironbearxl
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    ironbearxl polycounter lvl 18
    Martin_H wrote: »
    E.g. it can not bake curvature maps.

    Vertex Paint -> Paint -> Dirty Vertex Colors?

    teapot_vc.jpg
  • FourtyNights
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    FourtyNights polycounter
    Blender is also my main 3D app, and I find it extremely fluent for game development, and I could list some very nice features.

    Triangulate modifier - A non-destructive triangulation for your UV mapped low poly model, and you can even choose from a couple of different triangulating methods in the modifier settings.

    Displace modifier - A non-destructive projection mesh for the whole object to set the cage for the low poly. Before using that, you'll copy your triangulated low poly to be used as a cage though.

    OR you can use ALT+S (scaling along normals [shrink/fatten]) for manual tweaking in the edit mode. Especially good when adjusting separate mesh elements precisely if you have an exploded mesh for normal baking.

    OR you can use the sculpt mode with the inflate brush to push the cage for organic meshes, such as characters.

    AND, you can obviously set a distinctive material color for cages to see the possible intersections between the HP and LP cage.

    In the newest Blender versions you can use sharp edges as smoothing groups flawlessly, and include them at least in both .obj and .fbx file formats when exporting.

    At least these features I mentioned are excellent stuff for finalizing your low polies for the game engine.
  • flat-D
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    flat-D polycounter lvl 6
    Torch wrote: »
    How are you guys enjoying using Blender, do you feel it stands up well to other, more commonly used apps like Max and Maya and do any of you freelance guys use it in production? I've been using Maya for years now but since I mainly focus on modeling/texturing I feel there's so much fluff in it that I don't need.

    The UI at first struck me as a little archaic, but after seeing its capabilities shown off by artists like Max Puliero (below) I really want to give it a shot - seems like an all in one app with some sculpting/texturing included too :D[/url]
    I've used it in production. It's become my main tool for mesh related work including sculpting.

    It's got a lot of good things going for it. It's a jack off all trades. And really shines in some.

    Pior has pretty much outlined it's biggest issues. The defaults it comes with are useless. Unfortunately it's got a steep learning curve and the customization is frustratingly convoluted.

    Now if you can make it work in a way that you are actually willing to stick with it, it's very good! Unfortunately, it relies on a bunch of addons to improve the workflow/usability.

    There's been a couple of custom setups recently that could make the transition a bit easier for those interested in giving it a go.

    I've shared my setup not too long ago.
    Here's an overview:
    http://vimeo.com/111238742

    More info, changes since the video, main hotkeys, and the download link with installation guide can be found on the BA thread for the setup.
    http://www.blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?352666-Input-Custom-Blender-Setup-Silo-Maya-esque


    As part of my setup I already use rTheme and rRMB Menu, by PLyczkowski, both with minor tweaks on my end.
    The links to the addons can be found in my CustomSetup thread on BA.

    PLyczkowski has also created a rSelection addon.
    http://www.blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?355841-Add-on-rSelection


    Between what PLyczkowski had done and my setup I think it's a pretty good starting point for those who haven't tried it before or just couldn't stick with it due to the default setup.
  • flat-D
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    flat-D polycounter lvl 6
    As a demo, in this timelapse of a bust inspired by a Andy Bergholtz's Batman, I used Dyntopo (Dynamic Topology, Sculptris like) for sculpting the bust, poly modeling for the spikes and poly modeling + cloth sim for the cape. Boolean it all together and iron out the seams in Dyntopo.

    Rendered also in Blender, Cycles. Only the textures were done in 3D Coat.

    That's an example of how it's handy to have all those things in one app.

    And a note on Dyntopo, that bust sits ~120K tris, sculpted off a subdivided cube.
    The bust with booleaned cape is ~180k, due to the cape being a low poly proxy that was subdivided subtentially then cloth simmed (realtime in the viewport).

    batman_timelapse.gif
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yup, that's exactly why Blender is such a powerful package ! When I realized that it was possible to work on lowpoly blockouts and then freely sculpt on them later, I was hooked.

    2014-10-1910_22_37-Blender_C__Users_pior_Desktop_Blendertests_modelmess017blend_zpsc0b004c2.png~original

    2014-12-0821_27_00-2014-10-1904_24_28-Blender_C__Users_pior_Desktop_Blendertests_modelmess012b_zps8a056236.jpg~original

    I am loving this so much - this has been my dream workflow for years, and I am only now realizing that Blender can do it very easily. Kickass stuff. Also, great bust FlatD !
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    You can do much better than that; check out the Skin Modifier. It's basically the same as ZSpheres for ZBrush.
  • flat-D
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    flat-D polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks pior!

    As Grimwolf mentioned, the Skin Modifier is very handy in a number of situations. Something like ZSpheres.
    Here's an example of the Skin Modifier on one of my latest WiPs, outlining a similar workflow as with the Batman bust.

    Pirate_WiP_01.jpg
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yup, that's pretty powerful too. I personally prefer starting from hard polygons and booleans, as I like the dynamic structure that they suggest - but Skin is of course very handy as well, for sure.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    With the new keymap coming up for 2.74, and the greater interest in the game asset pipeline, things are looking good indeed.

    Pior have you seen this boolean approach yet: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0RmIxBdB0"]BoolTool 0.1 Demo 2 - YouTube[/ame]
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    Ok frankly, after reading this page, I do agree that the software does seem complete.

    http://www.blender.org/features/


    But I have one question, how come that a software which offers so much is free?

    Is there a way in which artsit and CG companies can create their own script and tools like in Maya? If yes, I cannot understand why it is less used but if no, we should give them full support to the team so they could include integration of Custom Tools.


    I mean what will happen the day a visonnary will decide to do a succesful movie or game within Blender?

    Autodesk will buy it?
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    Blond wrote: »
    Ok frankly, after reading this page, I do agree that the software does seem complete.

    http://www.blender.org/features/


    But I have one question, how come that a software which offers so much is free?

    Is there a way in which artsit and CG companies can create their own script and tools like in Maya? If yes, I cannot understand why it is less used but if no, we should give them full support to the team so they could include integration of Custom Tools.


    I mean what will happen the day a visonnary will decide to do a succesful movie or game within Blender?

    Autodesk will buy it?

    They get a lot of money from donations, as well as selling tutorial videos.
    I think they also keep development costs low by outsourcing a lot of the work to people for free, who are willing to work on it just for the sake of improving the tools they use.
    People can also sell addons for it, but I don't think the Blender Foundation themselves sell any (that would undermine the whole "free" thing. Features they work on are directly integrated).
    Also, the Blender Foundation has made many short movies with Blender already. Games have been released by users as well using its integrated engine, though I don't know of any particularly good ones.
    And you can create your own scripts and tools for it. It uses Python.

    I think the main problem big studios have with it compared to stuff like Max and Maya is that 1: Max/Maya and their workflows are heavily integrated into most software, and so it makes for a far cleaner and more reliable production pipeline. 2: Many studios have already been using Max/Maya for years, and have many custom tools and pipelines already in place for use with them. And 3: It would take too much time/money to retrain employees and rebuild tools and such to work with a new core piece of software.
    Blender only actually became "good" within the last several years.

    Max/Maya are not necessarily better, they're just very heavily dug in already.
  • Yadoob
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    Yadoob polycounter lvl 7
    Blender has an "history" which makes it look less profesional (often seen as beginner or hobby software). Doing add-ons for Blender is quite easy but it's a bit tricky to do commercial add-on. It's evolving since the opening of BlenderMarket wich tie more dev and users : https://cgcookiemarkets.com/blender/

    And NO Autodesk can't buy Blender since it's opensource, I think that's the main "pro" for Blender :D : no softimage nightmare !

    But Blender isn't free, the Blender fundation still needs funding, right now I think they have like 4000€/month (correct me if I'm wrong) to hire dev and develop Blender. Compare to a autodek's licence, I think we can be way more generous to them :)

    PS : here's the new grease pencil edit stroke in action :
    [vv]113610809[/vv]
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Dataday : yup, that's what I use :)
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    Do they accept Payapl, I feel like being a good samaritan.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    http://www.blender.org/foundation/donation-payment/

    For the price of a Mudbox subscription you can be really cool once a month instead.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Blond wrote: »
    Do they accept Payapl, I feel like being a good samaritan.

    Just buy some stuff from: http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/ it all goes right back into the general fund.

    Also, like previously stated... it cost money to develop but not to use. Donations, store sales, tutorial sales, grants, volunteers, steam workshop revenue sharing...ect
  • Martin_H
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    Martin_H polycounter lvl 6
    ironbearxl wrote: »
    Vertex Paint -> Paint -> Dirty Vertex Colors?

    teapot_vc.jpg



    I know that script and imho it is not a replacement for a properly baked curvature texture like xnormal can create. It only works with vertex colors and if you are working on a sub-d hardsurface mesh you'd have to merge down the modifier stack to get a result close to what you want. Also I think the mesh resolution has to be very even or else there will be weird shading. For some uses it's better than nothing, but really no replacement for xnormal. But thanks for the suggestion anyway!



    Anyone know a good way to use midi controllers with blender? Perna had a video where he was using a midi controller with 3DS Max and I hope something similar can be done in blender too. It would help in customizing hotkeys without changing existing ones for example.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Anything is possible with source code access ;)
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 18
    Yadoob wrote: »
    PS : here's the new grease pencil edit stroke in action :

    o.O Jeez are you kiddin me?! Thatsa nice!
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    So long Autodesk! It's been fun :D

    Been playing around with it some of yesterday, very easy to pick up and the fact that you can change the UI so easily to suit your workflow is nice. Can't wait to find out about more hidden gems in the program :poly121:
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    Torch wrote: »
    So long Autodesk! It's been fun :D

    Been playing around with it some of yesterday, very easy to pick up and the fact that you can change the UI so easily to suit your workflow is nice. Can't wait to find out about more hidden gems in the program :poly121:

    one thing that is not that obvious but pretty important : alt + strg + space

    set your own coordinate system.
    g - x will move on global coordinate
    g - x - x will move on the one you created
    works the same with rotate and scale

    also
    i can only advise everyone new to blender to enable dynamic spacebar menu in the addons menu
    it will replace the search function (space) with a search function + almost every command that exists in blender. Pretty handy for people who do not yet know the shortcuts for everything.

    and since you´re already looking through the addon menu, enable f2
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImSNOuvkKsw"]TIP: Using the F2 Add-on - YouTube[/ame]
  • Martin_H
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    Martin_H polycounter lvl 6
    @SnowInChina: thx, didn't know the ctrl+alt+space trick. Trying it out I also noticed, that you can set the transformation orientation to "normal", so that you can press r,z,z to rotate a face around its face normal.

    Do you know these?
    g, shift+z to move on the x-y plane, leaving z unchanged
    s, shift+y to scale on the x-z plane, leaving y unchanged
    etc.

    F2 is also looking great. Thx.
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    yes, now iam using blender since quite a few years now (also professionaly), so i wouldnt say i know everything, but quite a bit
    my post was only meant for those who want to transition from whatever they were using to blender

    of course there are a lot more cool tools and features, but it would take a lot of time to list them all
  • Yadoob
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    Yadoob polycounter lvl 7
    o.O Jeez are you kiddin me?! Thatsa nice!
    Yep, the animation corrections will be easier if you work in a team.

    Mat_H : Recently, Ton asked the gaming community more features ideas since the first set was almost finished, I didn't find curvature map yet but you can add it I guess : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuS_F0ZKX-zTdGxKOEMtRmI2Tno4UUlPZzVfNXB6RHc#gid=0

    I currently translate (in """English""") some small tips hidden in Blender gathered on an other forum : http://blenderlounge.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=190&p=1376#p1376
  • SurlyBird
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    SurlyBird polycounter lvl 13
    Another way to support Blender development is joining Blender Cloud:

    https://cloud.blender.org/join

    A little bit about the cloud initiative:

    http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Org:Institute/BlenderCloud
  • KeithC
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    KeithC polycounter lvl 7
    I pay for a CGCookie account; which gives me access to all the help I need for Blender, as well as other areas....such as Unity training, etc. Good, low-cost, investment.
  • SurlyBird
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    SurlyBird polycounter lvl 13
    Yep, Keith, I agree. CGCookie gives you a great return on your investment. Good stuff on not just Blender, but, of course, the Blender stuff is really excellent.
  • Zack Maxwell
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    Zack Maxwell interpolator
    Yes, CGCookie has the best tutorials I've seen for Blender by far.
    Already being subbed to that devalues the Blender Cloud subscription quite a bit, unfortunately. May as well just donate.
  • CJE
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    CJE polycounter lvl 13
    Wow, I had no idea blender had some come so far.

    So aside from the learning curve, would it be viable to use Blender in a production environment?
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    CJE wrote: »
    Wow, I had no idea blender had some come so far.

    So aside from the learning curve, would it be viable to use Blender in a production environment?

    That would depend on the production enviremeant I have worked with people who use blender but have always had problems with getting their content into game engines or into Maya fully intact due to FBX still being a little shaky.

    But if you are in a envirmeant where you know it can export to the final target without issue and you don't need to collaborate with max and Maya users, why not use it in production.
  • CJE
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    CJE polycounter lvl 13
    Hmmm, that's unfortunate. I freelance and mainly work with .FBX for import and export of final deliverable.

    It is a .fbx issue or an issue with Blender's FBX support?
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    It's an issue with Blender's FBX support. The FBX SDK that Autodesk provides, while free in cost, is incompatible with Blender's GPL license, so the Blender developers have to reimplement the spec from scratch. It generally works well enough if you're just delivering a mesh and some textures. You might run into some issues if you have to deliver a weight-painted rig or any animations, but then again you might not. You'll probably want to do some pipeline tests to make sure everything works OK, i.e. take something you've made into Blender, fix up any problems, export it again, and see how well it shows up when you import into Maya or Max, and if it doesn't work right you should try and file a bug at developer.blender.org.
  • CJE
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    CJE polycounter lvl 13
    It's an issue with Blender's FBX support. The FBX SDK that Autodesk provides, while free in cost, is incompatible with Blender's GPL license, so the Blender developers have to reimplement the spec from scratch. It generally works well enough if you're just delivering a mesh and some textures. You might run into some issues if you have to deliver a weight-painted rig or any animations, but then again you might not. You'll probably want to do some pipeline tests to make sure everything works OK, i.e. take something you've made into Blender, fix up any problems, export it again, and see how well it shows up when you import into Maya or Max, and if it doesn't work right you should try and file a bug at developer.blender.org.

    Ah.

    I'm usually just delivering a mesh with UV's/Smoothing Groups/Textures anyways. Does it handle preserving triangle orientation well? Usually I will convert a poly to a mesh (thinking in Max lingo) in order to preserve the triangular orientation when going into the engine.
  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 10
    Blenders FBX used to be a massive problems. But now since they updated it works very well and I have not found any bugs or glitches yet.
  • AtomicChikkin
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    FBX was a nightmare, but it's high time the import/export was fixed. I actually abandoned it all together when trying to work from Maya-Blender and vice versa.
  • kat
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    kat polycounter lvl 17
    CJE wrote: »
    Ah.

    I'm usually just delivering a mesh with UV's/Smoothing Groups/Textures anyways. Does it handle preserving triangle orientation well? Usually I will convert a poly to a mesh (thinking in Max lingo) in order to preserve the triangular orientation when going into the engine.
    For game-engine import, if you're talking about triangle/edge orientation then once you've 'tessellated' the structure its pretty immutable. If you're wanting to keep quadratic (or nGon) structure you might encounter issues depending on there being a default orientation or edge flow (bottom-left to top-right instead of bottom-right to top-left for example). You shouldn't encounter issues with basic bone based rigging and articulation but you might using morphs. As Jed said, it's best to test.

    Importing into other 3D apps is a different kettle of fish though.
  • michalczyk
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    michalczyk polycounter lvl 17
    Until about 2 years ago I have been using 3DSMAX since 1997. I tried blender and liked it, and after few months of experimentation I decided to use it instead of max. It satisfies my needs just as well.
  • Martin_H
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    Martin_H polycounter lvl 6
    @michalczyk: That's quite an encouraging testimonial for Blender. What exactly made you switch? Any areas in particular where you prefer Blender over 3DSMax?

    @Yadoob: Thx for the link. I think for games it is currently not a very high priority since we have xnormal. But a round edge shader for baking worldspace normals would be nice. I have seen a thread with an OSL implementation, but that doesn't work with GPU rendering yet and also seemed to still have some problems, but I think it's something to keep on the radar. Here is the thread I'm talking about:
    http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?329295-Bevel-shader/page6
  • michalczyk
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    michalczyk polycounter lvl 17
    Martin_H wrote: »
    @michalczyk: That's quite an encouraging testimonial for Blender. What exactly made you switch? Any areas in particular where you prefer Blender over 3DSMax?

    Well, initially I wanted to lower my costs of operation so I started to look for alternatives to 3DSMAX. Blender and Lightwave were both strong candidates on my list, but since Blender is free I decided to try it out first.

    I don't think there are any areas in the program itself that I particularly like better in Blender compared to 3DSMAX. It was simply a realization that for my needs Blender can do just as good a job as 3DSMAX, and since it's free why not use it instead.

    Later I read online that Blender CPU rendering under Linux is almost 50% faster compared to Windows. I tested this and now I do all my artwork on a Linux workstation. Because there is no Photoshop for Linux I now use Gimp instead, which also works well for me (it's actually more stable than Photoshop, though some of its functionality is a bit lacking). So overall switching to Blender saved me a lot - not just in software costs but hardware as well :)
  • charkiewlson
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    Loving this game, thanks,,
  • Martin_H
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    Martin_H polycounter lvl 6
    @michalczyk: Interesting. Did you try rendering on GPU or do you need CPU-only OSL shaders in cycles? Depending on your hardware rendering on GPU can be like 10 times faster than on CPU. Recently some nodes that only worked with CPU have been ported (SSS and 2 volume nodes I afair). If those where the ones you needed you might want to give GPU another go.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    GPU rendering is also about the same speed on Windows and Linux, since they both depend on the Nvidia CUDA drivers which are extremely similar.
  • michalczyk
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    michalczyk polycounter lvl 17
    Martin_H wrote: »
    @michalczyk: Interesting. Did you try rendering on GPU or do you need CPU-only OSL shaders in cycles? Depending on your hardware rendering on GPU can be like 10 times faster than on CPU. Recently some nodes that only worked with CPU have been ported (SSS and 2 volume nodes I afair). If those where the ones you needed you might want to give GPU another go.

    Yes, GPU rendering is much faster but I haven't tried it as my hardware does not support it. I look forward to it though, once I get around to upgrading my system.
  • xrg
  • Lamoot
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    Lamoot polycounter lvl 7
    Blender 2.73 is out.
    Download
    Release Notes
    A major upgrade was given to the Grease Pencil tool, which inter alia brought the ability to edit and animate strokes. The first developments from the Gooseberry Project like a Sequencer Backdrop, Cycles viewport world background and others were added. Cycles got various improvements and speedups, as well as support for cameras inside volumes, the UI got a new 'minimalistic' fullscreenmode and Input Method Editor support for textbuttons (used for complex Chinese and Japanese character input), the Knife-tool was improved, Freestyle got a SVG exporter, and many more features which are worth checking out!
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