My experience with Sims is that unless you have some kind of dedicated rig for the simulator itself, then chances are its going to need to be able to run on a pretty wide range of hardware, including a big selection of lower end machines that likely didn't have games in mind when they were acquired. They'll aim for something they can install just about anywhere, without needing new computers to go along with it. I can't see cryengine being used the same way I saw vbs and unity.
Yeah that's exactly right. I saw some demo subsea sim stuff from them as well, and thought, well that looks pretty, but prettiness only goes so far in sim work.
I agree with you in that I feel that Crytek - or more precisely the management - seems to run after the hip things (first consoles, then F2P and as a result being late to both), but did you actually follow the subscription model since it's release? Since release Crytek has updated the engine nearly every week, they also constantly keep updating the documentation and releasing assets (or updating old ones to PBR) that you can use in your games for free. And they seem to keep their promise of more source access - the last two updates included source access for multiple systems.
Of course not everything is perfect, the documentation still has areas that are lacking or are oudated, and they haven't released video tutorials like Epic, but you are exaggerating when you say Crytek does not do anything of that.
Clearly you aren't using CryEngine at all, right? We've seen several updates this week, with more example content and source code releases. I also don't see how the documentation is lacking, it's all there... If you think something's missing or not explained properly, please let me know so we can improve.
This was my experience with the engine before, and shortly after the subscription service release. I am glad Crytek is taking steps to make it easier to use their engine.
The problem with the subscription model is that you need the crowd. But the crowd use udk/ue4. Several years long the crydev community says that they need a better documentation, sample asstes etc. The cryengine was technolgy based better but the documentation and support are bad. The community has not reached the critical mass for a subscription model in my opinion and with ue4 the technology advantage is nearly non existant. Some people mentioned that the cryengine is for developer and not for people who need instruction for every step but the user for a engine are like a pyramid and its bullshit to aim for a subsription model only at the small peak. Next week i buy ue4, as non developer, only as a little hobby and when im in a dead end i start youtube/google and search for a solution. Thats the big advantage over cryengine and 10 lesser or no royalties can ever make it up.
Also $10 a month cheaper doesn't really matter when you can just unsub and resub whenever you want with UE4.
Exactly, I only plan to get updates every x amount of months (3 at current) to keep my sub costs low, works out great I can budget my engine costs and sure I don't have the latest content at the quickest time, but its highly affordable and allows me to budget things well.
The thread discussing the engine turned into a thread about Crytek's financial problems and now this thread has turned into a thread discussing the engine. :P
The thread discussing the engine turned into a thread about Crytek's financial problems and now this thread has turned into a thread discussing the engine. :P
Internet.
Besides, there is not much to tell more about Crytek troubles. Yet another company which was badly managed, by managers who doesn't have any vision or understanding of market they are trying to be on.
Crytek should just remain technology company that focus on engine development and from time to time, make game like Crysis, which brings hardcore PC gamers machines to knees, and they are grateful for that.
Some people mentioned that the cryengine is for developer and not for people who need instruction for every step but the user for a engine are like a pyramid and its bullshit to aim for a subsription model only at the small peak.
I agree. Those people forget that all those tutorials, developer support, live streams, irc chat (!), helps beginners as well as seasoned developers.
I know my way around certain parts of engine quite well, while others are total mystery. But I can always look at youtube, search formus/answer hub, ask on IRC (helped many times) or look at content examples on how thing was done.
Value you get for 20$/mo with UE4 is just incomparable to anything else on the market.
Lots of valid points by experienced people. What else to say ?
Just even with documentation I am confused about the coding part you see. I understand that Epic has both docs and video tuts about that part. But at Crydev we have neither. So that means I am supposed to tear it apart myself ?
Just always wondered about that you know. Being a non-programmer man, just how is it done ( learned) right anyway ?
Well to be fair, non-programmers shouldn't try developing a game as their first project to learn how to program properly. Game development is generally accepted as one of the more difficult areas of software development.
I think the main issue with Cryengine is that there just doesn't seem to be a need for it anymore. UE4 gives you complete engine source, a ton of great content examples, good platform compatibility, and excellent tools for making games look high budget without having to actually spend any money, and once the asset store gets opened it will become even better. Unity can compete against UE4 as well, especially for those looking for the even greater platform compatibility.
The fact is, with these two engines alone, you could make basically any game you could ever imagine. Having more choices is always a good thing and you should always assess the needs of the project and the resources at your disposal before doing anything, but it seems like UE4 and Unity have both become the "obvious" choice in many people's eyes.
I hear ya, NegevPro.
But, with all business. Crytek could get their shit together and make the Cryengine just as competitive as UE4. In a way, it still is...
They just grew too fast. This industry is crazy. It changes on a dime.
In recent weeks, there have been repeated reports and rumors relating to financial problems at Crytek. Having already given an update to staff across all our studios, we are now in a position to share more details with members of the press and public.
Internally, we have acknowledged that the flow of information to employees has not been as good as it should have, however we hope you understand that communicating details of our plans publicly has not always been possible.
Like the games industry as a whole, Crytek has been in a transitional phase. Our evolution from a development studio to an Online-Publisher has required us to refocus our strategies. These challenges go along with an increased demand for capital which we have secured.
We can now concentrate on the long term strategic direction of Crytek and our core competencies. We kindly ask for your understanding, that we won't be communicating further details about our developments and progress.
Ultimately, with our organization, capitalization, portfolio and technologies we have now laid the foundations for securing Crytek's future - not just in the short term, but also long term.
Through this period of speculation, we are thankful for the support and encouragement we've received from our community and our partners, and for the contribution all of our staff have made. We remain committed to doing what we are best known for and trying to develop the best interactive experiences and technology possible for everyone who loves gaming.
We are confident that we will be able to share more positive news on Crytek's progress soon.
Development studio to an Online-Publisher? What does that mean? Is that going to affect whatever is left of the current games, like outsourcing the development to other studios and only being the publisher? I don't get it.
I think its very important that the industry as a whole has company's like crytek. With out them and Unity there is no competition for Unreal and that engine and its support might not be as awesome as it is with Unreal 4.
There is still work to be done on the cry engine but it sounds like they are going in the right direction with it.
It sounds pretty wise to me too. They've got the engine (product) and an audience that wants to use it, but they need to give that area their full attention for it to work.
The term "publisher" seems a little ambiguous. It could simply mean their focus is CryEngine and the tools that go with it, or it could mean they want to provide a means for studios to get funding and share resources. Business wise that's basically diversifying your portfolio. Rather than your company hinging on the success of one game, the risk is spread across many. It's worked well for Valve and Epic.
I think the next Crysis is likely to be done through another studio, but the next few iterations of CryEngine will see it transform into a more consumer oriented tool, like what Epic's done with Unreal. So better support, maybe some standalone file converters, integration with third party tools, that kind of thing.
I think it is too late. The damage has been done and I find it unlikely that they will recover from this quickly. So many awesome staff have left with no intention of coming back. Even with new funds I find it unlikely that any they will be able to acquire a team of people as good as they used to have. Lets face it the chances is that they will never be what they once were.
I'm glad to hear that the Crytek UK staff is moving to the new Deep Silver Dambuster Studios to continue the development of Homefront. I wish them all the best.
Development studio to an Online-Publisher? What does that mean? Is that going to affect whatever is left of the current games, like outsourcing the development to other studios and only being the publisher? I don't get it.
they just go to free to play and publish their games on their own
I just tried the update. I don't know if I were doing anything wrong, but everything was broken and a simple FBX import ( static object, only mesh and textures) didn't work, I got an error.
The hotkeys no longer works and Parallax Occlusion Mapping hasn't been fixed yet.
I hope I am actually doing something wrong. It can't get that bad mate....
I just tried the update. I don't know if I were doing anything wrong, but everything was broken and a simple FBX import ( static object, only mesh and textures) didn't work, I got an error.
The hotkeys no longer works and Parallax Occlusion Mapping hasn't been fixed yet.
I hope I am actually doing something wrong. It can't get that bad mate....
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe someone can help you if you post this in 'technical talk' in the CryEngine subforum?
Cevat Yerli: There are expectations from some staff that aren't realistic.
I am guessing getting paid ontime is one of them
I heard you went to the UK studio and told them they were lucky to get paid. What do you say to that?Cevat Yerli: I have never ever used these words before. This is complete bullshit. I would never ever say to somebody, hey guys, you're lucky you got paid. What we have communicated to the team is, we have two choices: either we let people go immediately and pay the remainder, or we can't pay you right now and we stick together. We chose - for the team itself - for this reason not to downsize. And the majority of the team has applauded this, rather than critique.
what do you think is more likely to be bullshit that he actually said that or people applauded the fact they weren't going to get paid?
I am highly skeptical of anything this guy says,it just looks like PR spin.
Guys, cause we(i) fucked up, I'm not paying you. But we still want you all to work for us.
Seems from the glassdoor reviews, they haven't been paying on time for months.
I hate it when upper management in any business fucks up and drops all the shit onto the workforce. I mean i take it he got paid his wage while delivering that speech/?
The fact that Cevat acts passive in arrogance and manipulates his words for the companies reality for a good image that seizes to exist. Makes me feel really bad for those who are fearful to leave Frankfurt (etc.) for a better company, or are brainwashed that it may serve a good long-term decision to work with such a person whom holds their passions in their "undisclosed upfront cash deals". Sounds quite the mob-like reputation I've heard them for as a business in this industry.
Cevat comes off as a smug rich asshole that doesn't understand why people would be upset to go months without pay:
"Some people were very impatient and got angry at the smallest delay."
and
"I was surprised and upset a little bit that the intention of us keeping together everybody upset a few of them. But I understand that situation. Some people live in very tight financial planning. Thats their own privacy. They can do whatever they want. Those guys, when they get under pressure it can become emotional"
So, yes this is a fucked up situation and all the issues with paying/flying around higher ups while everyone else goes without paychecks...
However, something I find very interesting here. In virtually every other instance something like this has happened in the games industry, people would have been simply laid off, the company shut down entirely etc. While they're doing a shit job of damage control, and obviously pissed off a lot of people, they've managed to make it through this without mass layoffs (for now).
Not that this in any way excuses the behavior, but its certainly a unique situation, I can't really think of anything like this having happened before.
I wonder how many more decades of this sort of conduct our industry is prepared to accept.
Luckily it's not the norm; they didn't get away from this scott free, it's a black mark on their reputation. The ability to hire and retain senior talent has a pretty direct impact on the quality of your product.
Interesting angle, hadn't thought of it like that.
The problem here is that they've shed a ton of top shelf talent over this and as Justin said, there's a nasty black mark there now. That won't do them any favors when it comes to recruiting.
EQ: There are studios that pull the missed paycheck bullshit, they are usually smaller. When I've asked around those are the ones that other developers tell me to avoid like the plague.
If Crytek really wanted to do the right thing they should of had furloughs. If you can't pay your employees than you shouldn't expect them to work.
EQ: There are studios that pull the missed paycheck bullshit, they are usually smaller. When I've asked around those are the ones that other developers tell me to avoid like the plague.
If Crytek really wanted to do the right thing they should of had furloughs. If you can't pay your employees than you shouldn't expect them to work.
Yeah that's true, I think we've all dealt with something similar or have a friend who has a horror story. I suppose in this case its the only time I've seen it on such a large scale with the company seemingly still left standing.
I worked at Crytek for a few years but left a while ago. It sucked seeing all my friends in the Germany and UK studio not getting paid.
I know one thing and it's that without Cevat my career would probably not even exist. I'm not defending non-payment of staff - that part is ridiculous. However, founding a company which then gave close to 1000 people jobs is nothing to look down upon. I feel like they lost their way at some point and never recovered.
I know one thing and it's that without Cevat my career would probably not even exist. I'm not defending non-payment of staff - that part is ridiculous. However, founding a company which then gave close to 1000 people jobs is nothing to look down upon. I feel like they lost their way at some point and never recovered.
Boom when reality speaks the truth. I think is best that things are still running for the other people that depend on this as their income. Also not defending either, but better to save the company. Sure you will hurt some folks along the way, but at least you are still standing and can in the future provide jobs to others.
Very sad to read about so many people getting screwed over. I know many old work colleagues in the UK branch I hope they are all okay now. At least the studio did not fold. Some of the best talent in the world at that studio.
Looks like it was a question of not communicating fully with their staff about the financial woes they were undergoing.
Yerli also commented on the criticism surrounding Cryteks unpaid staff, saying: You have two choices, right? Either you delay payments and salvage the company. Or, you push your cash flow directly to the studios and you file for insolvency. Both options are really bad. So you have to make the better of the two bad decisions.
Replies
Yeah that's exactly right. I saw some demo subsea sim stuff from them as well, and thought, well that looks pretty, but prettiness only goes so far in sim work.
This was my experience with the engine before, and shortly after the subscription service release. I am glad Crytek is taking steps to make it easier to use their engine.
Exactly, I only plan to get updates every x amount of months (3 at current) to keep my sub costs low, works out great I can budget my engine costs and sure I don't have the latest content at the quickest time, but its highly affordable and allows me to budget things well.
Internet.
Besides, there is not much to tell more about Crytek troubles. Yet another company which was badly managed, by managers who doesn't have any vision or understanding of market they are trying to be on.
Crytek should just remain technology company that focus on engine development and from time to time, make game like Crysis, which brings hardcore PC gamers machines to knees, and they are grateful for that.
I agree. Those people forget that all those tutorials, developer support, live streams, irc chat (!), helps beginners as well as seasoned developers.
I know my way around certain parts of engine quite well, while others are total mystery. But I can always look at youtube, search formus/answer hub, ask on IRC (helped many times) or look at content examples on how thing was done.
Value you get for 20$/mo with UE4 is just incomparable to anything else on the market.
Just even with documentation I am confused about the coding part you see. I understand that Epic has both docs and video tuts about that part. But at Crydev we have neither. So that means I am supposed to tear it apart myself ?
Just always wondered about that you know. Being a non-programmer man, just how is it done ( learned) right anyway ?
I think the main issue with Cryengine is that there just doesn't seem to be a need for it anymore. UE4 gives you complete engine source, a ton of great content examples, good platform compatibility, and excellent tools for making games look high budget without having to actually spend any money, and once the asset store gets opened it will become even better. Unity can compete against UE4 as well, especially for those looking for the even greater platform compatibility.
The fact is, with these two engines alone, you could make basically any game you could ever imagine. Having more choices is always a good thing and you should always assess the needs of the project and the resources at your disposal before doing anything, but it seems like UE4 and Unity have both become the "obvious" choice in many people's eyes.
But, with all business. Crytek could get their shit together and make the Cryengine just as competitive as UE4. In a way, it still is...
They just grew too fast. This industry is crazy. It changes on a dime.
Pretty much.
Though I fear they have already lost too many talented people.
Edit: It sounds like people are actually getting paid now, so that's good.
There is still work to be done on the cry engine but it sounds like they are going in the right direction with it.
Good news that people are getting their pay now
The term "publisher" seems a little ambiguous. It could simply mean their focus is CryEngine and the tools that go with it, or it could mean they want to provide a means for studios to get funding and share resources. Business wise that's basically diversifying your portfolio. Rather than your company hinging on the success of one game, the risk is spread across many. It's worked well for Valve and Epic.
I think the next Crysis is likely to be done through another studio, but the next few iterations of CryEngine will see it transform into a more consumer oriented tool, like what Epic's done with Unreal. So better support, maybe some standalone file converters, integration with third party tools, that kind of thing.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/07/30/deep-silver-now-owns-homefront-new-studio-handling-development.aspx
I'm glad to hear that the Crytek UK staff is moving to the new Deep Silver Dambuster Studios to continue the development of Homefront. I wish them all the best.
they just go to free to play and publish their games on their own
Edit: They just released an update to the EaaS with early support for FBX too
The hotkeys no longer works and Parallax Occlusion Mapping hasn't been fixed yet.
I hope I am actually doing something wrong. It can't get that bad mate....
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe someone can help you if you post this in 'technical talk' in the CryEngine subforum?
Crytek boss Cevat Yerli on unpaid wages, Ryse 2 and the future.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-08-08-the-transformation-was-painful-we-paid-the-price
I am guessing getting paid ontime is one of them
what do you think is more likely to be bullshit that he actually said that or people applauded the fact they weren't going to get paid?
I am highly skeptical of anything this guy says,it just looks like PR spin.
Seems from the glassdoor reviews, they haven't been paying on time for months.
I hate it when upper management in any business fucks up and drops all the shit onto the workforce. I mean i take it he got paid his wage while delivering that speech/?
Oh my ! I feel disgusted. The more I read the more I feel sick by this.
I guess it is about time I changed my " preferences"... for good this time.
The fact that Cevat acts passive in arrogance and manipulates his words for the companies reality for a good image that seizes to exist. Makes me feel really bad for those who are fearful to leave Frankfurt (etc.) for a better company, or are brainwashed that it may serve a good long-term decision to work with such a person whom holds their passions in their "undisclosed upfront cash deals". Sounds quite the mob-like reputation I've heard them for as a business in this industry.
"Some people were very impatient and got angry at the smallest delay."
and
"I was surprised and upset a little bit that the intention of us keeping together everybody upset a few of them. But I understand that situation. Some people live in very tight financial planning. Thats their own privacy. They can do whatever they want. Those guys, when they get under pressure it can become emotional"
Probably has nothing to do with the amount of Glassdoor reviews rating the salaries at Crytek UK as "below average" then ...
I wonder if the inconvenience payment was tied to a "don't sue us or bad mouth us" clause.
However, something I find very interesting here. In virtually every other instance something like this has happened in the games industry, people would have been simply laid off, the company shut down entirely etc. While they're doing a shit job of damage control, and obviously pissed off a lot of people, they've managed to make it through this without mass layoffs (for now).
Not that this in any way excuses the behavior, but its certainly a unique situation, I can't really think of anything like this having happened before.
Luckily it's not the norm; they didn't get away from this scott free, it's a black mark on their reputation. The ability to hire and retain senior talent has a pretty direct impact on the quality of your product.
Interesting angle, hadn't thought of it like that.
The problem here is that they've shed a ton of top shelf talent over this and as Justin said, there's a nasty black mark there now. That won't do them any favors when it comes to recruiting.
If Crytek really wanted to do the right thing they should of had furloughs. If you can't pay your employees than you shouldn't expect them to work.
Yeah that's true, I think we've all dealt with something similar or have a friend who has a horror story. I suppose in this case its the only time I've seen it on such a large scale with the company seemingly still left standing.
Sounds good, just don't put "no crybabies" in the hire page this time, it caused many a facepalm in Austin.
I worked at Crytek for a few years but left a while ago. It sucked seeing all my friends in the Germany and UK studio not getting paid.
I know one thing and it's that without Cevat my career would probably not even exist. I'm not defending non-payment of staff - that part is ridiculous. However, founding a company which then gave close to 1000 people jobs is nothing to look down upon. I feel like they lost their way at some point and never recovered.
Boom when reality speaks the truth. I think is best that things are still running for the other people that depend on this as their income. Also not defending either, but better to save the company. Sure you will hurt some folks along the way, but at least you are still standing and can in the future provide jobs to others.
"We have seven people, all of the leads...,"
Man you can't miss a game that would come out of a studio like this
I feel great to see that people could find jobs and they are still in the industry.
Cheers mates !
Very sad to read about so many people getting screwed over. I know many old work colleagues in the UK branch I hope they are all okay now. At least the studio did not fold. Some of the best talent in the world at that studio.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/crytek-ceo-we-re-not-perfect-we-paid-the-price-for-transformation/0136660
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmenVEgGNQ
(Make sure you listen to the audio)