The Valley of the Suck! (Character Art)
polycounter lvl 7
Hey everyone, I am an aspiring 3-D artist and.. Well.. I wanted to start this thread and see if I can't get better at where I want to take my art! (I didn't post this in Sketchbook because it is going to be an on going bunch of critiques and such..)
With that being said I could really use some help! My goal at the moment, is to just become a decent character artist. I've got a strong grip on modeling, unwrapping, and texturing... though my sculpting skill is sub par. Small Imgur Album of some of my work -> http://imgur.com/a/SQcNt#0
Right now though..I suck. I really do, there is no denying it. I am trying and trying to master Zbrush but I am just killing myself trying to sculpt everything out. I feel like I know everything I need to do, and can visualize it in my head, but my hands just don't want to translate it with the tools given to me.
If you have any advice to offer I would be more than happy to take it! Where to start... for instance.. Is hard to figure out from google!
I figured I'd start learning the face and eventually move down the body as I learn to make characters, and once I have an understand of the human body I will attempt some not so realistic sculpts.
So here we go! Just going to try and do something daily, and then pick it up a notch during the summer. Maybe dedicate an hour a day to each part of the face until I can brush it out real fast.. Any recommendations/what you did to get where you are?
Zbrush feels really foreign..but here is what I did today.
If you listen close you can faintly hear him say "Kill me.."
I am going to dedicate my 1-2 hours tomorrow to learning how to sculpt out a better proportioned head before starting. It looks alright when I started but then as I worked on the face it ended up smaller than the rest and...yeah. Okay! Well, Proportional base bust is a good place to start. Let me know anything else you think of!
Thanks for reading my wall of text and I'll see you tomorrow!
With that being said I could really use some help! My goal at the moment, is to just become a decent character artist. I've got a strong grip on modeling, unwrapping, and texturing... though my sculpting skill is sub par. Small Imgur Album of some of my work -> http://imgur.com/a/SQcNt#0
Right now though..I suck. I really do, there is no denying it. I am trying and trying to master Zbrush but I am just killing myself trying to sculpt everything out. I feel like I know everything I need to do, and can visualize it in my head, but my hands just don't want to translate it with the tools given to me.
If you have any advice to offer I would be more than happy to take it! Where to start... for instance.. Is hard to figure out from google!
I figured I'd start learning the face and eventually move down the body as I learn to make characters, and once I have an understand of the human body I will attempt some not so realistic sculpts.
So here we go! Just going to try and do something daily, and then pick it up a notch during the summer. Maybe dedicate an hour a day to each part of the face until I can brush it out real fast.. Any recommendations/what you did to get where you are?
Zbrush feels really foreign..but here is what I did today.
If you listen close you can faintly hear him say "Kill me.."
I am going to dedicate my 1-2 hours tomorrow to learning how to sculpt out a better proportioned head before starting. It looks alright when I started but then as I worked on the face it ended up smaller than the rest and...yeah. Okay! Well, Proportional base bust is a good place to start. Let me know anything else you think of!
Thanks for reading my wall of text and I'll see you tomorrow!
Replies
Next you want to identify whats holding you back. Your knowledge of the head or your ability to perform the task in the software.
From looking at your image I'd say you need to be working on general shape of the head. At the moment it's very round in the front viewport, and square on the side.
So get your shapes correct and repost.
Loads of heads are different. So its sometimes good to use an actor as a reference. Don't worry about likeness. As long as you have a foundation face to work from. It also help others when giving you critique.
As long as you're true to it and keep coming back you will have a plethora of advice from the forum.
Good luck. : )
Don't mind all the small details. Focus on the big picture first. Lower subdiv level. Remember the landmarks for a face. And try to place them correctly. Understanding planes of a face will help a lot as well.
This is what I meant.
These knowledge and understanding come from studying them. If you know good topology flow of a face, try drawing that on a face photo. It helps.
And stock up on references.
http://www.pinterest.com/PyrZern/reference-faces-n-hair/
Also there are a couple of usefull videos for certain areas of the head aside of the plane orientations that might be helpfull.:
the mouth
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A Webinar about the whole face which i really like
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Not trying to advertise here (why should i) but on Ryan Kingsliens website you find a free ZBrush lecture that is quite extensive and features a whole section on the head you might want to check that out (free registration is necessary).
http://www.ryankingslien.com/#featured
https://www.pinterest.com/einaryoris/anatomy-references-for-artists/
This is a big one. If you start at too high of a subdivision, your sculpt will become lumpy and be difficult to smooth out. You should start as low as you can and put in as much detail as possible before subdividing.
Noted about lowest sub division, will definitely not go into any detail today. Focus on the shapes. Should I be working off of just the sphere? No dynameshing
Will check out those videos as well! (I have seen the mouth one, but haven't had time for the seminar. Def will try to find time today, or tomorrow for sure.)
I had seen this video ...http://youtu.be/Z5SroGW4D_o and I just felt he had made it more complicated than it needed to be. I personally really like Dynamesh, even though I am a total noob and make every thing feel clumpy and unshapely.. But whats your opinion on how he does it? Is this a "Better" way? Or just whichever I prefer? (Only the first 5-10ish minutes, actually shaping the head is where I will be starting)
What I usually do, drop a sphere, dynamesh it right away to like 2-3k points. Shape it. Dynamesh it again. Add landmarks. slowly dynamesh your way up. Each time you up the dynamesh points, sculpt everything you couldn't before.
Took it slow, used the reference that Pyrzern tossed to me
really wish I had more time today to work on it, but my term paper took a good portion of my day, and then working took the rest!
I had to stop because zbrush camera kept freaking out on me and I was about to throw my tablet.
http://www.stanprokopenko.com/blog/2009/07/draw-ears/
You can use this to gauge how proportionate your face is. Currently the eyes are far too high. Another thing that helped me when I started sculpting humans a while ago was studying the bone structure underneath. Then the muscle. It sounds like a drag, but find a good sculpting tutorial set (I recommend Scott Eaton, guy is a god at it) and look at how some professional artists work to sculpt muscle in, that's how they build form.
Right now though, it seems like you're coming to grips with zBrush. Take your time learning the ins and outs, keep posting man. My suggestion is you look at the skull for now. That way you can think of where to plot the eye cavities, where the temporal fossa allows for that noticeable brow extrusion, all that stuff.
I may be getting a bit ahead of myself, but the guys about you are completely right. Building reference is the best way to do it, unless you possess photographic memory!
Thank you! I'll try~ I am struggling with getting past this point because I have to learn the anatomy...and zbrush is a pain in the butt!! >.>
OOOOHHHH! Duh! Okay, thank you!
Thank you! Will try to start with the skull, so maybe just sculpting a skull this afternoon (Well, attempting to.)
Scott Eaton is sooo expensive though. I would love to take those courses but they're all just expensive for a broke kid!
ETA: I had a digital tutors subscription for a month but found it wasn't as helpful as I thought it would be. Since I have an understanding of a lot of the Zbrush tools and features it all comes down to just practicing and understanding the anatomy. So the tutorials they provide don't end up being very helpful~
~ Tomorrow is skull time!
Found a cool site "Anatomy4sculptors.com" Will definitely use it to learn the bones and muscles in the head.
Anyhow Todays 45min session:
This might somewhat help you as well. It's when I personally went through almost the exact same thing last year. I got loads of awesome links, tips, and resources. Some of those will help you no doubt.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122731
What helped me a lot is to just stare at people I meet on the street and study their faces for head anatomy. The more you look, the more you see of it. Also looking at a lot of Ref and other people's work (Hazardous stuff in particular helped me a lot recently fixing the face).
What I also did was sub to Digital Tutors for a while and practice with their tutorials / looked at their files you can download while subbed. Helped me a lot, especially learning zBrush.
What else ... I feel the Clay Tubes, Inflate, Standard, Smooth and Move Elastic Brushes are probably your best friends in terms of brushes if you are new. At least that is my experience.
I really need to expand my horizon of brushes!
This is how I tend to organize my thought process:
Proportions first.
How tall is the head compared to its width?
How does the distance from the top of the head to the eyes relate to the distance from the eyes to the chin?
How wide is the mouth in relation to the jaw?
What is the distance from the top of the brow to the bottom of the nose?
How does this compare to the distance from the chin to the bottom of the lips?
Lines are very powerful here. Look for collections of points in your reference that are in alignment. You can often draw a straight line from the edge of the nostril, through the pupil, to the corner of the brow. A vertical line often connects the inside corner of the eye to the edge of the nostril, as well as the corner of the mouth to the pupil. Take a straight-edge to your reference, and try to identify as many of these relationships as you can.
Form second.
Anatomy third.
Keep in mind, that all of this should function like a loop. Constantly checking each of these parameters. Make adjustments when necessary, and continue with the loop. As you continue to work this way, you will build up knowledge that will inform future work. Eventually, you will start to see how different people deviate from your normal measurements, and this knowledge will aide you in achieving a likeness.
Brushes
Now as far as brushes are concerned, less is more. Especially when you're just starting out. I prefer to use the following:
Clay buildup - This is my bread and butter. I do the majority of my work with this brush. It is great for blocking out form. Once you're satisfied with larger forms, you can decrease the brush's depth to refine. However, it has its limitations. It is not so great at cutting in things like creases and crevices.
Standard - Like the name suggests, a great all around brush that moves things around evenly. Much better than clay buildup for things like creases and wrinkles.
Dam standard - Use this to tighten creases and to define hard edges.
Trim dynamic - Gets you nice planar forms.
Inflate - Just what it says, use it sparingly.
Smooth - I tend to overuse this. You should use it sparingly, or you will end up re-sculpting a lot of your work.
That is all for now. I hope it is helpful. Keep on practicing!
I would suggest not going to such high resolution that early in the sculpt.
Always have reference on hand.
http://clz.deviantart.com/art/Different-Angles-of-a-Skull-370926521
Lastly, I wouldn't worry about other brushes. For practicing and getting used to Zbrush you can get a lot done with Move, Smooth, ClayTubes, and Dam_Standard. In doing a skull you can get really far with just the Move tool and resizing it.
Keep going as practice and reference are the best ways to improve.
If I'm ever having a bit of trouble, I look at speed-sculpts of what I'm trying to replicate. 9 times out of 10, it provides insight and inspiration into the sculpting process. This may not be beneficial to everyone, as we all learn in different ways, but seeing how someone else makes their model, then trying to use the same method, can help tonnes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A7eNi1qDlM
Very! Thank you a ton!
I was doing low-subdiv for awhile on that skull, I subdivided one too many times somewhere in there. I'll try to be better about that, I just want to get into detail sooo bad! Even if I don't have the skill/knowledge to handle it yet.
I actually have that reference! I used it on this skull actually, along with anatomy4sculptors.
Thanks to everyone for the brush stuff, glad to know I am on the right track with that.
I am going to do another skull today if I can find the time, term papers and all are killing me right now. I plan to try and make the jaw a separate piece this time around and keep working on the forms
ETA: Still struggling with all the tools ;\ But learning.. Need to get into understanding the anatomy, not just referencing it the entire time.. ya'know? Once my finals and term papers are over I will have more time to sit around looking at naked people :P
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/ZBrush-Digital-Sculpting-Human-Anatomy/dp/0470450266"]ZBrush Digital Sculpting Human Anatomy: Scott Spencer: 9780470450260: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
I went and looked back at my skull.. I think I accidentally modeled it in ortho O_O
ETA: This brings up a good point, why do we even model in perspective? What is OKAY and what is NOT okay to model in ortho/perspective? Google searching isn't bringing up much, though maybe i am searching the wrong things.
just take out a pencil and paper and draw, being able to draw in all angles in 2d will help you get a better understanding of form
so just back to the nitty gritty basics and yep... hopefully this helps
and to the perspective thing, i would say you need both perspective and ortho, so switch back and forth, and i think the importance of perspective is because well... what we see in the real world has perspective and if we want to match it or make something similar, we need that ability to see it in 3d, but thats just my 2 cents
Nothing from yesterday, work and finals as I said earlier are killing me
ETA Its Dr. Richer artistic anatomy right?
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Artistic-Anatomy-Dr-Paul-Richer/dp/0823002977"]Artistic Anatomy: Dr. Paul Richer, Robert Beverly Hale: 9780823002979: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Do people actually prefer to use these buttons as short cuts? Like, I almost like using the keyboard more than these side panels.. I just have to get used to it I suppose?
Any tips for shortcuts ? I have ctrl+Z (switchin it to spacebar I think for quick access) then ctrl/alt/shift for the other three
Got the big book on anatomy
I would also recommend using some other material. Red materials can strain your eyes quickly and you wont be able to see everything properly. By using some gray color, you can see more easily values on the surface, and the color wont strain your eyes as much. Just keep working, it is nice to see your progressing!
Personally I like to vary between the Bumper Viewer, FastShader, SkinShade4, MudboxGray and BasicMaterial. Also play a lot with lighting when working on more detailed sculpts
Keep going at it. It takes a while to get there, but you will slowly see your progress. When I look at how my female mesh looked 3 months ago and how she looks now, I nearly fell out of my chair
Haven't had issues with strain, mostly just my wrist from all the key pressing and typing I do
Will try the other materials!
Ill try slowing down, take two+days'
Question :
When do you know when to move on? The skull isn't perfect by any means, but is it more important to get a full understanding of that before moving on to the actual face? Or should I start applying muscle layers? Or move to understand all the other bones?
Thanks in advance for advice
The texture work here is pretty bad. Not only is it very low resolution, but you can also clearly see all the UV seams ;/
I know, I wasn't exactly aiming for a PBR mushroom butt :P
This was just something I tossed together relatively fast. The texture is seamless if I hadn't overlayed the fabric texture
Its all just on a 1024x1024 map, Hes actually quite small, Less than a meter tall so if he was to be in a game world even, He wouldn't be that high res due to his tiny-ness. I just did close ups for fun.
I had to take a break from anatomy or i'd go insane! Really.
-stares blankly at the wall wondering why he didn't think of this to begin with-
Good idea... :P