PBR texturing practice, looking for advice/critique.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Started practicing PBR texturing, hoping to get some guidance and critique. I'm a beginner to texturing, so I hope to learn a lot. Model was downloaded on a free 3d models website somewhere.

Using Metalness approach. Normal is just a flat map and Metalness is just a white color, so I'm not including them here. Trying to keep it all simple for now.

Roughness

Albedo

Trying to simulate something like this:

Any help and tips are appreciated.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

An update on the texture.

almighty_gir · Mar 2014

one thing that's really useful to do in marmoset is make a sphere and put it next to your mesh, then make a simulation material for that sphere. this simulation material would have, for example, the same orange colour from your albedo, the same metalness value, and then you move the gloss/roughness slider until you find the roughness level you're happy with, then you paint that value into your gloss map.

it's a really quick way to prototype materials.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

almighty_gir wrote: »

one thing that's really useful to do in marmoset is make a sphere and put it next to your mesh, then make a simulation material for that sphere. this simulation material would have, for example, the same orange colour from your albedo, the same metalness value, and then you move the gloss/roughness slider until you find the roughness level you're happy with, then you paint that value into your gloss map.

it's a really quick way to prototype materials.

Really interesting, thanks for the advice

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Quick update.

stevston89 · Mar 2014

The wear is just too consistent and not very believable. I would make most of the wear a lot more subtle and have some wear in less predictable areas. Things like scratches and dents. Also I would add a small lip at the seam between the two material shifts. It feels very unintentional/ unfinished as is.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

stevston89 wrote: »

The wear is just too consistent and not very believable. I would make most of the wear a lot more subtle and have some wear in less predictable areas. Things like scratches and dents. Also I would add a small lip at the seam between the two material shifts. It feels very unintentional/ unfinished as is.

What do you mean by "small lip" ?
Thanks for the advice, I'll try to fix things you mentioned.

stevston89 · Mar 2014

Just an edge or something. Maybe make one of the surfaces slightly raised. It looks like it is in the ref you have.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

stevston89 wrote: »

Just an edge or something. Maybe make one of the surfaces slightly raised. It looks like it is in the ref you have.

Oh, interesting, I never even noticed.

Ssjtroll · Mar 2014

Hey, one of the big things I think that looks off about your scratches is that some of the deepest ones do not make sense. They will be the majority around the contours of the mask. Also there are more than one deep scratch, there will be alot of other scratches around the area. masks-for-army-of-two--UDU2Ny03MzYwMC4yMzc0NjY=.jpg

masks-for-army-of-two--UDU2Ny03MzYwMC4yMzc0NjY=.jpg

help-needed-iron-man-mkvi-helmet-painting-iron-man-scratched-avengers.png-187361d1369140006

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Ssjtroll, thanks. This is very helpful.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Trying out different scratch/wear style.

stevston89 · Mar 2014

That is looking better. I would remove the pattern from the wear areas.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

stevston89 wrote: »

That is looking better. I would remove the pattern from the wear areas.

My problem is that I have no idea what the material behind paint is supposed to be. Is it brushed metal or something else? I tried to make it look like something from references, but I don't think it's any good now... Any thoughts?

stevston89 · Mar 2014

Doesn't matter what it was before, because it is scratched it's now scratched metal. I would recommend some scratches in the normal map of the worn areas. Some deep scratches, but mostly subtle ones.

Ssjtroll · Mar 2014

I agree with stevston89, the metal would be scratched and not as shiny. What might add more that you are looking for is there is usually a layer of primer under paint, mostly dark gray. Having that around some of the edges of the paint, or maby even if that was not fully scraped off in some areas might add some more break up for you.

Keep it up, it's looking good!

Subtle 1rony · Mar 2014

yeah, starting to look much better than before. I agree with stevston89, it needs some bump detail from a normal map like gouges and small scuffs and scratches. Maybe make the paint material bump out slightly, as if it were an additional layer over the metal. Looks like good material definition practice!

JohnnyRaptor · Mar 2014

the metal under the paint is probably heavily scratched, unless whatever the impact was that removed the paintlayer left the surface under the paint untouched.

If you look at the first ref image of iron mans helmet in the hands, you notice the scratched areas are heavily damaged and not smooth and clean.

Also, you may want to add a small lip/thickness to the paint borders where the metal is showing.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Thanks for the critique, guys. I didn't have a lot of time to work on it today, but I tried to add all things you mentioned. What do you think?

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

A little update, now with maps. I'm not sure what to do with this piece next, looking for an advice.

Ssjtroll · Mar 2014

I would start by moving into putting dirt in your diffuse and spec. Also get a few layers of scratches in the metal.

sltrOlsson · Mar 2014

What have you done with that poor normal map? That looks like it could be a pretty cool rock cliff. No offence.. Just put some thought into how that surface would behave when it comes to the normal map.

Ssjtroll · Mar 2014

Yeah, good thing you caught it sltrOlsson. I missed that normal completely

MDiamond · Mar 2014

almighty_gir wrote: »

one thing that's really useful to do in marmoset is make a sphere and put it next to your mesh, then make a simulation material for that sphere. this simulation material would have, for example, the same orange colour from your albedo, the same metalness value, and then you move the gloss/roughness slider until you find the roughness level you're happy with, then you paint that value into your gloss map.

it's a really quick way to prototype materials.

That's a totally awesome tip for learning this workflow, thanks.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

sltrOlsson wrote: »

What have you done with that poor normal map? That looks like it could be a pretty cool rock cliff. No offence.. Just put some thought into how that surface would behave when it comes to the normal map.

I used CrazyBump for generating the normal map from photoshop masks and images. I have little to no experience with the software, I'm sorry if it looks like crap

I'll try better next time.

Any tips on how to properly generate normals from images/masks like in my case?

stevston89 · Mar 2014

Sculpt the details in. Not to be a jerk, but if you are going to have large areas of wear it's best to sculpt that on before texturing. In a bind however I recommend painting specifically to get the details out. So for a chipped paint edge going and paint a white line on your edge then put it on a black background and bring that into crazybump. Same thing for scratches but do the reverse. Paint black lines for the scratches and give it a white background. I just find it works better to get specific details rather than generalized ones.

Edit: Texture overlays do work, but only if they make sense in context. You could use a brushed/ scratched metal overlay for example on your piece.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

stevston89 wrote: »

Sculpt the details in. Not to be a jerk, but if you are going to have large areas of wear it's best to sculpt that on before texturing. In a bind however I recommend painting specifically to get the details out. So for a chipped paint edge going and paint a white line on your edge then put it on a black background and bring that into crazybump. Same thing for scratches but do the reverse. Paint black lines for the scratches and give it a white background. I just find it works better to get specific details rather than generalized ones.

Edit: Texture overlays do work, but only if they make sense in context. You could use a brushed/ scratched metal overlay for example on your piece.

Thanks a ton, I'll definitely try to sculpt details in next time... I shouldn't have used a free 3d model in the first place,haha. I won't make the same mistake again.

sltrOlsson · Mar 2014

You already have your maps to create a good base for crazybump. What ever you want to make push down you put to something dark and what ever you want to push up you make lighter.. Then use the heightmap option.. Try the different sliders out. You can load your model so that you can get a good feel for how it will turn out.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

sltrOlsson wrote: »

You already have your maps to create a good base for crazybump. What ever you want to make push down you put to something dark and what ever you want to push up you make lighter.. Then use the heightmap option.. Try the different sliders out. You can load your model so that you can get a good feel for how it will turn out.

Can I ask what is heightmap used for?

Sorry for noobish questions, btw, but I am a noob

sltrOlsson · Mar 2014

Tutorial by the creator of CrazyBump. It's more for organic normals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_5suERXhRw

This is not a tutorial for PBR, but there is still some good tips and workflows in there. Check the "bump map" section, second post. Bump map and heightmap is basically the same thing.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=46&t=373024

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

sltrOlsson wrote: »

Tutorial by the creator of CrazyBump. It's more for organic normals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_5suERXhRw

This is not a tutorial for PBR, but there is still some good tips and workflows in there. Check the "bump map" section, second post. Bump map and heightmap is basically the same thing.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=46&t=373024

Thanks a bunch. Can't wait to learn more about it all.

Count Vader · Mar 2014

I like the way this looks so far! Not sure you even need a normal for the scratching though

Cint128 · Mar 2014

I know you have settled on metal now so go with that, but I'm half convinced this is actually supposed to be carbon fiber. Thas just judging from the pattern and they way it has worn/scratched looks more like a resin.

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Cint128 wrote: »

I know you have settled on metal now so go with that, but I'm half convinced this is actually supposed to be carbon fiber. Thas just judging from the pattern and they way it has worn/scratched looks more like a resin.

I'll definitely look into it. It's not too late to change the material yet. I guess it does look like carbon.

But in that render reflectivity and gloss of the material look very different, more like a metal than a carbon fiber. Maybe it's just a layer of polish or something...

What do you think?

JohnnyRaptor · Mar 2014

hey what is that screenshot from btw Cint128?

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

JohnnyRaptor wrote: »

hey what is that screenshot from btw Cint128?

It's from Batman: Arkham Origins CG trailer, I think

SuperFranky · Mar 2014

Tried something different for a change, following a tutorial I saw online. I'm attaching all the files to use in marmoset, so you could test it out for yourself and see how it looks under different lighting setups if you want.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30803397/wall.rar

Can't wait to hear your critique

Albedo

Roughness

Metalness

Normal map(inverted for some reason,I just flip it in marmoset)

PBR texturing practice, looking for advice/critique.

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