First Gun Model - Some advice pls!
polycounter lvl 6
At the request of a Steam friend I have started working on my first v weapon model of a M1911 colt pistol. Big part in thanks to 3DLees great thread (http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122581) I have come up with a peliminary mesh I am pretty happy with but I would like to clarify a couple of points and maybe get some general advice about the best way to proceed.
You can see the model in Max in the photos below. As I am sure is normal for a weapon like this, the model contains a large number of separate objects or elements (objects atm, elements later) In MOST cases I have simply snapped the verticies of one element to the surface or verticies of the adjoining element HOWEVER in a few cases this was not practical without adding more polygons so I have one or two elements (trigger, sights) whos polygons intersect with the polys of a neighbouring element (see last photo)
I seem to remember reading/hearing that it was bad to intersect polys and that it should be avoided, so simply in my case here what should I do? Can I leave some small intersection/overlap in some areas or should I make sure that everything is cropped off correctly even if this means increasing the polycount?
When the mesh is done I must unwrap the model, it seems to me it would save a lot of time if I unwrapped it once BEFORE applying all the symmerty modifiers, and then apply them all and merge and then do a final unwrap. Is this the best method?
Also with objects like this it is possible to unwrap with almost 0 poly distortion HOWEVER this often means having more unwrap pieces, and therefore more seams and more uv waste. With these type of unwraps is there any rule of thumb concerning how to balance number of pieces against distortion? Or is it just a case of the quality you are looking for and the price you are prepared to pay to get it?
Finally the high poly. My idea was to add hard details in Max and (lettering, grip patterns etc) and soft details (wear/scratches) in Mudbox. For the Max bakes it seems to me that it would be easiest to simply break off the pieces I want to add high-poly details to into separate objects, add the details and then bake each one separately. Maybe it would take a little more time but I am thinking the results would be better than trying to bake all as one. Is that about right?
For Mudbox it will just be a case of re-quadrifying the mesh as best as I can before I export, but once again I think I will delete all the little elements I don't intend to sculpt.
Does anyone have any other advice or suggestions about making weapon models? Any pitfalls to avoid? Anything I am doing wrong atm?
Any advice would be really appriciated, thanks to anyone who replies!
You can see the model in Max in the photos below. As I am sure is normal for a weapon like this, the model contains a large number of separate objects or elements (objects atm, elements later) In MOST cases I have simply snapped the verticies of one element to the surface or verticies of the adjoining element HOWEVER in a few cases this was not practical without adding more polygons so I have one or two elements (trigger, sights) whos polygons intersect with the polys of a neighbouring element (see last photo)
I seem to remember reading/hearing that it was bad to intersect polys and that it should be avoided, so simply in my case here what should I do? Can I leave some small intersection/overlap in some areas or should I make sure that everything is cropped off correctly even if this means increasing the polycount?
When the mesh is done I must unwrap the model, it seems to me it would save a lot of time if I unwrapped it once BEFORE applying all the symmerty modifiers, and then apply them all and merge and then do a final unwrap. Is this the best method?
Also with objects like this it is possible to unwrap with almost 0 poly distortion HOWEVER this often means having more unwrap pieces, and therefore more seams and more uv waste. With these type of unwraps is there any rule of thumb concerning how to balance number of pieces against distortion? Or is it just a case of the quality you are looking for and the price you are prepared to pay to get it?
Finally the high poly. My idea was to add hard details in Max and (lettering, grip patterns etc) and soft details (wear/scratches) in Mudbox. For the Max bakes it seems to me that it would be easiest to simply break off the pieces I want to add high-poly details to into separate objects, add the details and then bake each one separately. Maybe it would take a little more time but I am thinking the results would be better than trying to bake all as one. Is that about right?
For Mudbox it will just be a case of re-quadrifying the mesh as best as I can before I export, but once again I think I will delete all the little elements I don't intend to sculpt.
Does anyone have any other advice or suggestions about making weapon models? Any pitfalls to avoid? Anything I am doing wrong atm?
Any advice would be really appriciated, thanks to anyone who replies!
Replies
Judging by that screenshot you're gun is 10k tris, this is too much for a low even though I gather it's not the final low. You want to be looking for more like 5k for a pistol, 8-10k for a rifle, but that can change depending on attachments, engine, number and size of texture maps etc.
I would say do not bring the gun into mudbox/zbrush, you don't want to be putting details that small like scratches on the normal map; it never comes out looking that good, just messy, you want to concentrate more on the specular and gloss map for scratches and blemish.
It's good to model using symmetry initially as much as possible, it just saves time, then you can model half the model, unwrap half the model, then finalize it after.
Here's some links to good tutorials as mentioned above, they also have good modelling tips and tricks videos witch are definitely worth the watch.
Ben Bolton Knife Tutorial
Millenia Weapon Tutorial
Racer445 Tutorial
Hope that helps, and good luck!!
Thank you very much for the help, sry I couldn't pick up the thread again sooner, I had to go away.
The tutorials were very interesting and helpful... had I taken the time to watch them before starting I would have probably approched things a little differently and would have saved myself some time. Having said that I don't think I am too far off the mark as it stands.
I am close to finishing my low poly model. As you can see from the photos the gun itself is at 4999 tris. The mesh optimization was not quite so perfect as in Arenovalis shotghun tutorial but I think maybe this is simply because I am modeling some smaller details into this that he did there. Does it look ok in the photos?
The 4999 will go down a little after I unwrap my pieces, apply my modifiers and do the final tweeking, but on the other hand I do still need to add in the extra polys for the emblem on the grip. Perna, I modeled this part because it has quite a significant gap around it and because it sticks out quite far from the grip itself and I didn't want to rely on the normals alone for all that. The screws were just an oversight on my part...
I think once I have atached everything I can or intend to atm the final model will have 21-22 different elements to it.
All of this is not including either the magazine or the bullet and shell casing. The magazine is 314 tris, the bullet+casing 352 and the casing alone 256.
The thing is I havent researched the animation much yet so I am really not sure what will and will not be visible in the final version. Atm the magazine and casing have been completely modeled inside and out, but I am not sure if this will be needed in the final model.
With the magazine and casing would it be better to leave them "hollow" and simply put them into a sepatate noculled material? Or will the 150-200 polys I save doing this not make it worth while?
Even if I have to use the magazine, bullet AND casing (although I imagine I could split the bullet up and use it as both in the animations) the whole thing would still be under 6000 tris which I think is acceptable, and yeah I still think the final version will be more likely to be 5500 or less.
I still have work to do on the high poly, this is where I messed up my workflow somewhat and would have saved time if I had done it differently. But so far i think this isnt going too badly for a first try!
Thanks again for the advice, guys!
EDIT* I forgot to add the grip groves to the rear of the slider where the you pull it back, added them now and the tri count has gone from 4999 to 5313... hopefully will still be acceptable when LowPoly is finalized.