Finding things with ease?
polycounter lvl 6
Hey fellows, since 2012 it seems as though I have been one who has been having trouble finding new opportunities. Things seemed to occur quite often back in 2010 and 2011, but now things are no good.
I took two tests recently, one I over detailed (that was the one that I asked about retaking, but another one presented itself when I was about to start)
and the other I think I either submitted too much and/or they said they got someone else with more exp again; thus I seem to be in a pickle with no positions whatsoever.
I've been going to as many mixer type deals, but nothing seems to be occurring. People keep giving me rather flattering compliments, it is rather flattering, but it doesn't lead to new ventures.
There aren't even any part time jobs in the area I am currently residing in., this is no good at all.
How do you fellows suppose that I get out of this pickle? Someone once suggested that I to grad school. but I feel as though that would be no good.
Also I made the realistic type of dude for the test, (albeit it was only 900 tris). but I got the test without having realistic type of guy, so I am rather perplexed.
I took two tests recently, one I over detailed (that was the one that I asked about retaking, but another one presented itself when I was about to start)
and the other I think I either submitted too much and/or they said they got someone else with more exp again; thus I seem to be in a pickle with no positions whatsoever.
I've been going to as many mixer type deals, but nothing seems to be occurring. People keep giving me rather flattering compliments, it is rather flattering, but it doesn't lead to new ventures.
There aren't even any part time jobs in the area I am currently residing in., this is no good at all.
How do you fellows suppose that I get out of this pickle? Someone once suggested that I to grad school. but I feel as though that would be no good.
Also I made the realistic type of dude for the test, (albeit it was only 900 tris). but I got the test without having realistic type of guy, so I am rather perplexed.
Replies
Also I think things are rather hard right now anyway, not much work coming my way either
The last test I took was for both a 3D and 2D character artist. Perhaps I could try that for awhile. This year it seems as though I am finding things, but they get messed up, last year it was jack squat, the year before that it seemed as though good things happened all the time, and the year before that it only seemed as though it was small things. So I am not sure, what is up.
Hard to believe a fellow like you would be having trouble finding things.
yeah odd you say you are not so confident in 2d as your work really stands out in that area.
Perhaps its the same with me and sculpting, people think I am ok at sculpting but I find it really tricky at times.
re the demo reel you have up, I think the renders need a bit of work. They seem blurry and the lighting is not that kind to your work.
Some breakdowns and still images would be good to see.
I think that there is always a reason why you are not getting the work and mainly it's the portfolio/presentation.
From a critical perspective, I worry that some of your stylization might be a crutch. I would do one or two pieces where you tone things back and focus more on technical skill, like realistic (relatively) proportions and having five fingers on each hand. I'm not saying change your style, just show that you're capable of doing that type of work.
On your real, take "loading" out. Someone who's not tech savvy might see it and get annoyed, not realizing that it's a joke. "Loading" is also the largest thing on the screen and at the bottom, so your eye skips over the titles entirely.
Also, fix Betacaratine's (love the names XD) crotch.
your 3D work just looks sloppy and sketchy and very unpolished, not to mention lot of your topology looks distorted to the point where they are not up to commercial production standard.
anyways, you seem to be asking the same questions again and again expecting different answer. may be you want to hear that no one likes your style but i for one couldnt care less about any style. execution is all that matters in my opinion, and in most commercial studios, all they want to see is whether you can create something with high production quality that they can sell.
right now your 2D work meets that production quality, but your 3D work is too far behind.
The first page that shows up should be your 2D work, as it is definitely your strongest point. Your 3D work screams quantity and not quality... it looks like a lot of your 3D work is half-finished and rushed, to be honest. Your presentation isn't doing it any favors either. Too much negative space in each shot.
I probably should take down the demo thing, it's rather old, but the question is should I make another because folks always say that a new one wouldn't be necessary. Then again I do have more than enough dudes to make another one. But on the other hand would it really be worth the extensive render time.
JadeEyePanda
Well, in an attempt to impress it seemed as though I over detailed it, and that was no good. They said maybe try again later.
Equanim
Well not persay, the last test that I took was something that was a tad realistic but lower poly than normal, I was able to do that, they also asked for something more poly-pocket anime esque, I did that as well. (check my sketch book)
At the last full time position that I held, I was asked assist in commercials that were rather realistic. I am not waiting for a certain project.
With all of this said, I think I should take down the old reel.
MM
I am not sure if folks are seeing the same thing I am seeing over here,
when have I have asked the same question over here.
This is rather confusing, I mean, what would be good topology, some folks say I don't add enough polygons, some folks say I add too many. I am not sure what you are referring to, part of me is thinking that this could be tough guy based. I just don't see how this 2D is production and 3D isn't.
I am most perplexed
well since you keep persisting that "this could be tough guy based" what ever the hell that means, i took the time to download some images from your site and wrote down some notes.
the main issues are:
1. inconsistent sculpting quality, or just sloppy sculpting/modeling in general.
2. inconsistent & unplanned topology causing issue like bad stretching.
3. presentation is poor, bad image cropping, bad image quality and sloppy editing in general. in some cases i can even see images from another windows creep into your main image.
lot of these issues are no problem for sketchbooks or wip stuff that you would hide away in a blog or something, BUT for final portfolio these are too rough and unfinished to attract any potential employer.
your textures could also use lot of work but i dont feel like going through all that feedback if you are too stubborn to accept what has already been said by me and others here.
Jon Jones has a great list of portfolio tips
http://www.jonjones.com/2013/06/25/resume-and-portfolio-tips-twitterblast/
BTW, don't send him to your site as you have violated #12. I don't want your house burned down.
I fixed most of the things that you mentioned.
The reason why there are so many loops on Gas Giant's rings was due to the fact that I had a hard time retaining it's shape in marmoset with limited spans, and where there wasn't enough it wasn't necessary to have them there because that area wasn't effected by the rig.
Whenever I try to save a could.
As for the fan art, I copied the sample art verbatim, the claws were rounded and the toes were pointed. That wasn't the issue with the test, the issue was that I over-detailed the texture on the low poly model.
I was actually planning on starting another model to replace the marionette character due to the fact that it is two years old today.
What I don't get is condescending anger that many of the users seem to possess here.
I fixed some of what you said here, there is no need to be nasty about it.
I know for fact somebody is "I hate that guy, I wish people would say things about me"
I was just asking about where one can find things, and folks are going into a whole tizzy about everything.
Get your portfolio closer in that direction both in modeling quality and presentation, and I think you'll find more opportunities.
Where are people being nasty, man? You asked why it was hard for you to get a job, and everyone has been trying to help you...? How is that being mean?
I sincerely don't understand.... everyone is trying to help you address what would help you get employed?
Critique is a common part of this industry. You need to take that critique and use it to empower yourself.
Woah now, you need to settle down.
In both test situations, I talked to someone from the studios at various and they told me
"Yeah we do characters like this, we will give you an art test"
They gave me a test.
I mean I didn't even know much about the places, in both cases, someone told me "hey these guys are looking for characters, you should talk to them."
Not to be rude but it always seems as though the techno tough guys , exactly like this or that. Or I can never do anything, there opinion, there seems to be an underlying anger to it.
RexM
It's not the critique it's underling, look at the a couple of the previous posts.
I just mentioned that I disagreed on things, and certain people got mad. I mean I fixed many of the things people mentioned
I was asking where I could find more opportunities, because I have been finding them, but I need to get over the others taking the test.
If people are not answering your question like you would like it to be answered ... then it might be because the question was not clear in the first place. Could you maybe reformulate your question in one sentence ?
That being said, people offered valid critiques on your work because they thought this is what you asked for. (for instance : MM clearly pointed at the precise kinds of execution problems in your portfolio pieces that would, indeed, cause a studio to turn down an application/art test)
As for other opportunities : well, first and foremost, it's important to build a body of work even before thinking of art tests to take. That is to say, your chances of getting the job thanks to a submitted art test are much higher if you can also show a great series of portfolio pieces of the same caliber to back it up. In a way, an art test is just a way for a studio to make a final check on the skills and reliability of an artist.
In that regard, Derek was totally right. Simply head over there :
http://cg-sammu.net/
http://www.joshsingh.net/
http://media.steampowered.com/apps/dota2/workshop/Dota2CharacterArtGuide.pdf
These folios and the Valve art dcument show you exactly the kind of quality that is expected from you for a job at a company like Riot games. Therefore the only thing you really need to do is work, work and work until you feel like you are just as good as these guys - both in terms of technical execution and artistic expression (gesture, anatomy, dynamism of the pose.) And of course, once you are there, these skills do not apply to just Riot games - they would help you for any other game job.
The critiques offered by MM are a great place to start.
Once you have portfolio pieces a that level posted online, then job offers will either come to you straight to your email, and/or the application process will go very smoothly in case of art tests.
It's a long road but it's worth it !!
Good to hear from you again
I was saying that because I thought that he thought that I was being a rude fellow, and not understanding what was expected and I was just stating that I was given the test.
I fixed several things in which people said were wrong with certain pieces, and I was planning on replacing one of the pieces on my site with another character that I was about to create.
As stated before I was on the spot for the tests, and I just took them. And of course, I am trying to build a better body of work, I've added more texture to recent dudes that I've made and made sure that they were engine rendered.
I just don't know anymore. I am just trying to make good portfolio types you know? And want to find new things. The reason one went down was because I added too much, maybe I should just work on things now.
I just want to find a new position to go to because things have been no good in terms of that as well, it just seemed so much easier to find things two years ago.
Once you've done that, reapproach your current stylized work and apply your new knowledge to make them even better and spice up your portfolio with the best of them, that way you can show that you posses an understanding of realism, technical knowledge and show off your creative best.
That's uh, what I think anyway. I have no job in the industry so what I said might pretty much be the salt of the earth but, it seems like the better approach based on previous job experiences and the idea of what one looks for when hiring someone for a specific job/position. That's what I do when I apply for things anyway, reinvention and presenting your best and your knowledge.
1. If folks had to be detailed as these dudes no one would be finding anything.
2.Why would I have been offered the test in the first place?
3.I've been to a couple of mixers in NYC and nobody was ultra detailed, but they had super positions due to networking and the schools they attended actually having good placement programs. In fact, they though I was a detailed fellow, and that is not the case.
4. From what I've seen 2D types of places are far less lenient with sort of things, when one is specifically trying to be a 2D kinda guy.
What I want to know is where can I find some things, and see what is occurring.
No. the inconsistencies are in your mind only.
1. it is not about quantity of details but quality of details. your characters dont have to be more detailed than they are already. they just need polish so you dont have the errors as i mentioned above.
2. you were offered a test to see if you can do better than what you have on your website, and you couldnt...
3. the problem is you observation is bad, you fail to see the problems in your own model and therefore cant distinguish between something that is polished in quality and something that is very rough.
4. you are correct, your 2d is not actually up to par with the average 2d concept artist. i was just being nice when i said your 2d was production quality. it is definitely better than your 3d but not good enough to get you hired as a dedicated 2d artist. obviously there are exceptions depending on what the job requires in a particular studio.
here is the bottom line, a better more experienced artist can take one of your existing 2d concept and make a far better 3d model than you did.
so how to improve?
A. do some anatomy studies to practice replicating anatomical shapes accurately (work on better topology at the same time)
B. do some hard surface modeling to practice replicating mechanical shapes exactly from reference (work on better topology at the same time)
C. do some realistic texturing to practice replicating real world surface properties and materials
while you do all of these, post your progress in polycount and get feedback and ACCEPT the feedback.
however, if you keep saying that there is nothing wrong with your work and the problem is always something else like "tough guy based", or "meaty guys" or "muscle fellows", or "folks angry with you", or etc etc. then you will just be ignored as a troll from now on...
Go to my website.
See that? "Page not found" do you think I have a job in the industry? Probably not. You're right.
If you manage to navigate to the only piece I have on there, notice the belt in the wireframe, probably the least detailed piece in the presentation render, and it takes up a good 1/6th of my poly budget. Think thats good topology? no, its not, you're right. Noone is going to look at a portfolio like mine and go, "wow, I really want to hire this guy, he obviously has his stuff put together". Likewise, while you have a good setup to your site, your 3d is obviously not your strong suit; Like you were told previously, your characters lack any fundamental sense of anatomy, movement, weight, or character. You've got the basics, but nothing super solid.
Your 2d is good, better than your 3d, but like MM said, not something I would choose you over every other talented artist competing for the spot.
Noone is here is attempting to be mean, be condescending, or god forbid, hurt your feelings. Everyone on Polycount is either professional, amateur, student, or exactly like you, and every single member of this site has something to say that can help you progress.
Simply, take a step back, rework your site, and rework your skillset, learn anatomy and how it translates to 3 dimensions, learn how light is cast in a physically based manner and use that knowledge to present your pieces in a realistic manner, work, work, and more work.
I (among others) quite often, forego sleep for days on end to push my skills. Don't let anyone tell you that you aren't talented, because you can do something that not everyone can do, but don't let that go to your head, you are not bernici, and even the masters have something to learn from those of us who have not made it that far.
Tl;Dr
Stop being defensive, dissect critique, apply it to your work in an effective manner, regardless of what your ego says about your work in comparison to everyone elses, drop the attitude, and let these people help you.
Cheers,
Payton
Nobody is expecting you to implement every piece of feedback, and different people will offer different advice and share different opinions, because everyone has a unique perspective. There is no conspiracy here to give you contradicting advice or anything like that.
Calling people tough guys, rude, etc when they are trying their best to be helpful (and have not been rude or out of line in any way) really hurts your reputation, and is going to make finding work all the more difficult, this is a very small industry after all. Be polite, thank people for the advice and implement what you can, where you get into trouble and where your threads generally go down hill is when you get ultra defensive and start responding negatively to the people who are trying to help you.
Speaking as a hiring manager and as a guy that runs art teams for a living, reading the way you react to people in this thread says a lot about what you may be like to work with. If your lead asks you for X, Y, or Z changes on a task, I'd be concerned that your first instinct would be to get defensive and counter-argue. Ain't nobody got time for that. I realize this is an internet forum and not on the job, but if the advice you asked for was freely given and you're generating excuses and trying to argue and label people as attacking you, that isn't presenting you in the best light.
My advice would be to let this thread sit for a day or two, then come back and read it through with a clear mind and conscience, then consider the advice in the spirit in which it was intended. Ponder this concept: Attention is respect.
It seemed as though I was being a no good fellow.
I wasn't really angry at people giving critiques or saying that I need improvement; infact I am very grateful for these ones.
It seems as though I was more upset at the situation, of not working in this type of environment, like I used to and being set back while being put in a really bad situation.
I was just looking forward to working for that place, however I was met with disappointment after putting my best effort into a test.
To tell you the truth, it is more so fact of being stuck in the same situation that I honestly got upset about in some of the threads more so than anything.
Honestly I just part of the production like I used to instead of being no good.
I am really sorry fellows, and thanks for everything.
Bury yourself in your work, just plug away at the fundamentals, get your groundwork up to scratch ( you have some fantastic advice from some top notch artists here) and you will start to find that your finished pieces will elevate in turn...I know its a lot easier to say than do, but I find that channelling your frustration back into your work and using that energy as a positive force rather than letting it become negative really helps....fuck....I'm talking about the Hulk method again
I think that this is the real answer to your question... you find jobs by being the guy that people want to hire, by working on your folio, honing your skills and staying positive. You have some fantastic visions for character design man, just learn to craft them in a way that works for the medium you have chosen. Great things will happen, it may take time, and its not easy but that really is the way to get a job in this industry.
sorry I'm rambling, but after everything that you have gone through on PC this looks like the beginning of a new leaf for you and I really hope it is man...now get on with it
You have an amazing style and I have faith that you will get work again soon.
If you want to talk privately and ask any questions or would like advice on anything, hit me up. I'm happy to be here for ya if you need.