Modo vs Maya,Ur thoughts?
polycounter lvl 10
Just watched some videos here:
http://www.livestream.com/snefer
I can't believe something like this does exist.It really has very powerful modeling tools,though Autodesk added some new modeling features to their latest maya version,I don't think it comes close to what I am seeing in these vids.I am not sure about Modo's rigging and animation tools though.Has anyone tried Modo's animation and rigging tools and how does it compare to Maya?
http://www.livestream.com/snefer
I can't believe something like this does exist.It really has very powerful modeling tools,though Autodesk added some new modeling features to their latest maya version,I don't think it comes close to what I am seeing in these vids.I am not sure about Modo's rigging and animation tools though.Has anyone tried Modo's animation and rigging tools and how does it compare to Maya?
Replies
Maya's probably a little more "complete" in its rigging tools, but modo isn't far off.
Maya's also likely to be a bit more stable. Modo's only had full animation in it for 2 versions now... but modo's systems are very powerful and flexible, more so than Maya's.
And for straight up modelling, I don't think anything can really beat modo at the moment.
My advice is give modo a try, it's really worth sinking your teeth into. And if it doesn't sit well with you, then fall back to Maya.
This must be a joke. Modo rigging is really, really, really, really, poor compared to maya. Animating in it is the same. I hope this is a joke.
@BARDLER Exactly!!After watching those vids,I feel like Autodesk is just ripping us off with what they incorporated into Maya.This reminds me of Blender's modeling tools which are ahead of Maya but I found problematic in terms of convenience and speed.Maya may not have advanced modeling tools but the way u can get things done is way faster and convenient than Blender.I am just hoping that the same problem doesn't apply to Modo,cause speed and ease of use are also essential and not just the powerful tools.This is what I have noticed most apps not made by Autodesk lack but Modo's modeling tools are just too good to ignore.
@Farfarer What app are u using?Are u using Modo presently?I did watch some of the animation demos for Modo and I think its very similar and might be slightly better than Maya in some regards.
-U can modify ur model drastically after rigging and animating and the modifications will reflect in ur rigged and animated 3d model without problems.
There is a possibility u may not need to rig ur model in order to animate.I haven't done much research on modo's rigging tools but will be looking into it.Thanks.
@Jedi Would like to hear from ur experience why u feel the rigging and animation tools are poor.
@dustinbrown I completely get where u are coming from though I think u can achieve much more if u try out new tools especially if they will help ur workflow when it comes to speed.Also,I would rather prefer to work on my own than in a studio environment.
I am also of the opinion that if one is extremely good at what he/she does(which I am striving for),a studio will hire u irrespective of what app u use.If the app u use is different from what they use but can make their workflow faster.I am pretty sure they could incorporate it into their pipeline bc of the quality of work u have demonstrated u can make with it.
Studios are always looking for how to get things done faster and on time,the app that can get things done faster the better.One more thing that is appealing to me now about modo is the software is licensed to you and not ur computer which means u can use it anywhere from ur account.So u could own urs and use it at the studio u work in and at home for private jobs.
At $1,500,it seems like a great app with maya,mudbox,zbrush rolled into one compared to maya at $3,500 + .I will still research about its rigging tools.One of the things I have learnt is that the fact that a software is popular and widely used does not mean its the best.There may be other lesser known apps that can get the job done better and faster and ignoring them because they are not popular might rob u of the chance of becoming better,faster and more equipped at what u do.The snefer dude who uses modo in those livestream videos I watched has worked on some AAA games which I am sure he used modo for.
He found what worked for him and his work speaks for itself.
Of course,its still possible to make vids low res in this time and age.
Kinda wondered why ur post was offtopic there and I am guessing u never tried modo?
Now, if it was for a studio then that's an entirely different story. Max/Maya are the most dominant applications and its worthwhile to know at least one and if you have time both. I am of the opinion that the studios do not care what software you use as long as you have a good understanding of the said software to replicate your art through their preferred 3D package.
Nobody ever goes "oh he did this in [X]" software. But that doesn't necessarily mean you can skip out on learning the other prominently used software.
Its like trying to substitute Photoshop with some other program. Yeah it may very well be possible but everyone else in the industry uses Photoshop. There's a reason why industry standards do not go away over night even with newer and powerful programs.
I've always used the modifier stack in Max as if it was a long-winded tool, anyway... i.e. set it up, then collapse it straight away. So not having a stack in modo never really bothered me.
In modo, if I'm uncertain that I won't want to go back, I'll duplicate the mesh layer so I can grab a copy of the unedited version again if my editing doesn't go as I want. Same as I do in Max, really.
That's what I do in Maya. It can kind of get a little messy in the scene, though that's typically when I'm working on environments and decide to throw everything one scene.
I kinda wish there was a device that downloads all u need to know about a software to ur memory so u don't have to go through the learning curve dilemma.Maya 2014 new modeling features may not be so advanced but a step in the right direction.
I don't know.. I keep my Bend/FFD/Shell/QuadChamfer/??? modifiers around for ages. It'd be hard to do without (though I guess one needs to let go of the past at some point, yeah?
It looked vastly superior to where it was a year or two ago, so I forced myself to work with it for one week. (maya keymap + dynamic space bar addon)
After that week I have no interest in Modo anymore and will stick with Blender as being a secondary app. Additionally, with the right keymaps (you can make your own, use the default or download someone elses) you can have a very Maya like experience within Blender..all for free (though I do recommend supporting the developers via donations).
I highly recommend you give it a shot. It has really grown to become a strong competitor in the 3d application world. There's a new release every few months and its updated constantly with both bug fixes and feature patches. With a bit of python knowledge you can even customize the application further.
I find the sculpting within Blender to be better than Modo's sculpting...as it feels more zbrushy. Though nothing really beats Zbrush, especially now that Zremesher is in. New videos are popping up showcasing the painting capabilities in Blender (which are still in development). It has a built in compositor, game engine, and 2 node based rendering engines. The modeling tools are great as well. Ok enough plugging, try it out. It wont cost you anything but your time.
One more thing, you can use any money saved by using Blender to grab a Zbrush license or nab yourself a cintiq if you dont have one already.
Hand painted low poly in Blender:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrApuPOayoU
Seamless texture workflow:
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3d cursor workflow:
[ame="
Scale is displayed as a percentage. WHY?
I can't find the option in Modo 701 (it must of been moved or removed) to change this to units.
Why in gods name would ANYONE who knows what they're doing want their scale as a percentage vs a unit so they can work to scale..
I could make a freaking list, but what's the point.
Thats great to hear since you talked about trying to get refund.
Like WarrenM said. You can't force Modo to work lke 3ds max or maya. It works differently. I think it's really flexible once you wrap your head around it.
Does someone care to explain the pivot thing then? Because it's downright confusing. I can never get it to behave properly and have no idea where the pivot ACTUALLY is which is important for this robot I'm (trying to) modelling.
I'm also getting frustrated, I have snapping OFF, but my cylinder I'm trying to resize is snapping instead of scaling nicely. I need it smaller, but it's snapping to ZERO. NM just had to freeze the scale.
How do I get my pivot back? It's disappeared..
In maya I had a script that'd tell me if it was perfectly symmetrical or not.
I also read that the baking tools are quite useless. Similar to Blender, you don't have any cage baking.
That is just what I read. I tried the demo of 601 and it was hard to get used to it. So I didn't get deep into, since they offer only a 15 days trial.
I'd love to have solid modeling and animation tool for Unity as alternative to Maya, or Blender. But what I've read so far worries me, if this is the right tool. Some people seem to love it, and others hate it.
Another problem are the long complaining threads about Modo's bugs
I wondering how good their painting tools are, compared to 3dCoat?
I'm sick of trying to move a pivot to the appropriate place for my objects to rotate around (important for when I setup the rig). It would literally be easier AND faster to export the objects one by one, fix the pivots in maya, export, reimport. Stupid..
Currently attempting to vertex snap. It's snapping AROUUUUND the vertex I want to snap to.
What the actual shit? They think this system is usable? appropriate? decent? NOPE.
Finally got it.
Now I have two items with frozen transforms and the pivot in the exact same place. Great. Except when I select both and scale they fly off into space, I have to do them one by one.
:poly127:
As for Blender, it actually doesnt seem to have much of a problem when it comes to game assets and cage baking. However, it seems that right now its better to just create the cage in Blender but do the rest in Xnormal. Managing and exporting vertext normals (for use in smoothing edges) is being worked on now and theres currently build for testing that feature. That was one of the few missing features that many game artist felt was necessary.
In addition to that, there are a few addons which allow a GoZ (go zbrush) workflow within Blender, as well as one for Xnormal (so you dont have to actually leave blender). Not sure how stable that last addon is.
Ton R. from the Blender Foundation recently laid out a development roadmap for the 2.7x and 2.8x line of Blender. Most of it involves a more solid integration of the game engine into Blender itself as well as updated OpenGL rendering. I think the game asset creation side will be getting even more love in the months to come.
Back to Modo. The painting side of Modo isnt nearly as good as 3dCoat. In fact it still feels tacked on and clumsy to say the least. Brad over at Luxology was saying that they intended to update the painting side of Modo in an upcoming service pack. We will see if its anything significant.
Finally, for pure modeling...Nvil might be worth looking into.
You are a crazy man (or woman, you never know). I would love to have the discipline to actually keep anything in the stack for longer than two or three modifiers in there. It bugs the hell out of me ( OCD much? ) but I know how useful it would be if I could just restrain myself. I wish sometimes that I could just adjust a parameter instead of sliding stuff around. You inspire me. :poly121:
Back on topic though, I've been meaning to download a trial of Modo and play with it for the 30 days or whatever the trial period is. The modeling toolset looks to be a real time saver. As it was mentioned above Most of us are stuck in the Autodesk / Adobe industry workflow, so hearing opinions about the alternatives out there is just great
Centres are where the move/rotate/scale actions at an item level originate - the origin for that model essentially.
Pivots are where animation happens from... by default the pivot for an object is aligned to its centre, but you can optionally offset the pivot (and the offset can be keyframed).
I suspect you're confusing the two.
I can snap either pretty happily (and precisely) to anything else.
Completely not recommended by someone who spent few days with Modo! 1 star! (jokes)
Shame you didn't give it more time. Farfarer, Earthquake and Snefer are examples that Modo can be powerful tool. Maybe you still need to search for the app that suits you.
Also here's a wonderful vid demonstrating the various action centers that are incredibly handy when modeling: http://content.luxology.com/community/user_tutorials/seneca/SENECA_MODO_ACTRS.mov
Of course I can't be sure, but it sounds like action centers would help with your current problems.
I imported a scene I did in Blender without textures and Modo rendered it with full features in just 49 secs whereas in Blender with cycles,it took 5mins+ and that was with no textures,preview samples at 20.It was still very noisy/grainy whereas Modo was very clean.
I am yet to fully grasp the modeling tools but I am pretty sure as I advance further in the documentation,I will get to understand how they work.I must point out though I find the hitting esc button everytime u need to exit a tool or reselect a tool to use it a little tasking.Lets say u wanted to move around vertices to reshape a mesh.This means after moving a vertex,u have to esc or reselect the move tool to manipulate another vertex.Thats tiring and less intuitive especially if u need to adjust a number of vertices but I am assuming Modo may have a workaround or tool for that purpose?
As for Blender,its becoming my favorite choice of app and its because of the new features and brilliant addons that are easily available to users(donations are important in making all these possible btw)
I feel cycles materials are the best and very easy to use.Problem is the renderer does take time especially for complex scenes and the grainy stuff that comes with it.
I have been playing around with the realtime animation addon in Blender and I am very...very happy with it.This is going to drastically reduce animation workload especially camera movement as the addon records the movement of ur camera like u are holding it and moving it around in reallife.Thats just splendid in shaolin awesomeness.I am guessing no other app has this feature at all.
I am kinda torn between the awesome realistic fast renderer in Modo and the fast animation technique in Blender.Modo probably has better modeling tools and great realistic renderer(not tried out the rigging/animation tools yet) while Blender has very fast animation tools.
I am seriously thinking of using the glsl shaders in Blender to cut the render times in Blender and enjoy the animation tools it offers till Cycles improves but yet Modo's renderer is too good to ignore.
Modo has "sticky keys" and "select through" for easier tool usage, too.
[ame="
Sadly,I have uninstalled Modo and decided to give Blender my full attention.I have decided I am done trying out new apps and trying to find that perfect software because the truth is there is none.
I will still use Maya but Blender is very powerful right now,and the userbase have a huge collection of scripts and addons that have proven to be really powerful and very useful.These are probably stuffs u can only have access to if u work in a studio environment and they are readily available for others to tryout and use unlike Maya or modo.
I think opensource is the way apps are going to go in the near future.Powerful apps or features like ptex,opensubdivs,bullet physics,xnormal are signs that this is a step in the right direction and everyone benefits.
I have also decided if I am currently going to make any expenditure on anything cg,it will be on making my CPU more advanced and not on apps anymore unless needed.
Saw it in a 3D mag like 4 years ago and hadn't really heard about it much since until i started browsing these forums + after seeing Tor Frick using it... well its about damn time i put Max down for a bit and tried something else.
I'll be giving it a try over the next two weeks along with Houdini will post my results when i'm done.
I first started in C4D then switched on Maya 2013 because i wanted to learn what people actually use in industry.
I really liked Maya workflow and all other stuff together with modeling even though it's not that great but the mayor flow in modeling with Maya was selection! Oh man, picking and aiming verts and edges was a pain!
At that point i started to look for better modeling solution and went for Modo. At first i liked it but after a little while i noticed that i struggle to much...at that point Maya 2014 was released with new modeling toolkit.
So instead of learning Modo i give it a try to new Maya and i was seriously blown away, it all felt like the whole new better modeling software!
Sure, there is not really new modeling inventions but workflow is super awesome! So i
stayed with Maya at the end!
Modeling toolkit has really really great modeling workflow BUT requires a bit of time to learn all those crtl-shift-click-left click-middle click tricks. It doesn't come with assigned shortcuts so that is also a must for mesh editing tools at least!
So, my conclusion is:
...a question! Do you really need a LOT of modeling functions or superior workflow?
Maybe a bit of both but at the end of the day 90% of modeling time you practically only use what every other 3D software has - extrude, bevel, bridge, cut, connect... the other 10% is software specific but with some workaround you end up on the same. So, the workflow is what matters the most and in my opinion Maya's workflow is the best now..
You know..i was watching Vitaly Bulgarov videos and tuts, couple of times..one of his is on: [ame="
...watch it carefully and you'll see that he use only extrude, bevel, cut, connect, bridge, some booleans, weld...tools that every singe software has and yet he managed to create such an awesome looking stuff!
That draw final conclusion
The best modeling software is not the new,cool looking one that has a million options but the one that fits you the most!