Recommendations/Suggestions for laptops
polycounter lvl 5
I recently decided to look into getting a laptop, and I am sort of out of the loop on whats really good these days. I have looked at newegg, alienware/dell, asus and a few others but still not sure what would serve me best for 3d work. Any suggestions or recommendations would be great. Thank you for your time 
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Replies
sager has some of the best quality workstation class designs around without the branding markup.
http://www.sagernotebook.com/
To be honest I don't have to many specifics, just aiming to get my moneys worth with about a maximum budget of about 1800$. Sorry if that isn't that helpful. Thanks for directing me to sager. Looking at their workstations at the moment.
Before anyone can give you decent advice, you need to figure out what you want.
Size?
Weight?
Battery life?
What will you use it for?
Screen quality?
Integrated GPU?
OS?
if your not going to use an external monitor then go with the 17. if you use an external monitor the higher end 15 would work.
go for the best graphics card you can get the rest can be upgraded later.
the other option imo is to get one of the boutique gaming laptops. they come with support and usually test all there systems.
the build quality and parts on the big brands are usually hit or miss. and replacement parts are very expensive.
Size? 15-16"
Weight? Not to worried about this.
Battery life? This im not quite sure about.
What will you use it for- Strictly just going to use it for producing game art/freelance. 3D modeling, Marmoset, Photoshop, etc.
Screen quality? High quality
Integrated GPU? Undecided.
Thanks for the advice. I definitely wont be using a external monitor so I think I will be going with the 17 like you suggested. I am starting to lean towards sager after spending some time looking at their workstations and doing some comparing.
Ok so you will probably want something with an I7 processor.
You will probably want to find something with an IPS screen then. I'm not sure if they are common with laptops over 15", and I don't think Sager offers any laptops with IPS screens(though I don't know a whole lot about Sager).
A lot of laptops have TN panels for the screen, which means bad viewing angles and poor color reproduction, not a good idea for any sort of art work.
It can be hard to tell which panel a laptop has however, and often times if a laptop offers an IPS panel, its labled something asinine like "TrueColor upgrade".
Check this article out though, it has a nice list of laptops with IPS screens: http://www.laptopreviews.com/laptop-guide-advantages-of-ips-display-laptops-and-where-to-find-them-2011-12
If you're doing mostly 3d art, you probably want a dedicated nvidia GPU.
17" with I7, dedicated GPU and IPS screen puts you at:
Dell precision 6700
Dell Precision 6700
HP Elitebook 8760w
HP Elitebook 8770w
These are all going to be in the higher end of your budget, and it looks like these usually come with FireGL or Quadro cards, which are good for CAD and things like that, but maybe not the best for game orientated artwork.
Thanks for all of the info. I was not aware of majority of laptops having TN panels vs IPS screens nor the advantages/disadvantages so that information helps a ton. Reading the article you linked as I write this. I am not dead set on Sager yet, still looking at all the options and it sounds like having a IPS screen is definitely worth having.
edit: Checking out the laptops you listed at the end of your reply.
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYCTOProcess?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&LBomId=8198552921666495151&categoryId=8198552921644768015
If you don't care so much about an IPS screen, you'll have a lot more options. TN screens can vary from borderline unusable, to fairly decent, so it really comes down to *which* TN panel you're getting.
If it has an IPS screen you can pretty much assume its going to be a quality screen.
Oh nice. I had looked at lenovo laptops prior to making this thread but didn't know to much about lenovo regarding quality. Sounds like you are satisfied with yours. Going to do a little bit more research then make my decision.
thanks for the feedback! I will check that laptop out as well. So many options.
Thanks for the heads up. I will keep that in mind.
The screen isn't an IPS one but I did get a 95% gamut super glossy screen which is a very high quality screen(I honestly love it). The reasons why I didn't go for the 17" NP9170 was; A)More portability and B)I had decided to invested in a 27" inch IPS monitor(LG one, was on sale for around $300) to connect to it(It's a 1080p monitor, going 1440p would've been an extra 300 bucks I didn't have). So far the setup is working brilliantly.
If you have any questions about my experience with my sager so far, drop me a pm.
Its hard to say, I've got a Lenovo X220 which I really like(12.5 inch, IPS screen) but I want something with a dedicated GPU, so I'm looking for something similar to what you're after, but I haven't decided myself (or I haven't been able to justify buying another laptop just yet...). All things considered the Sony looks decent, though if you want a more powerful GPU, one of the Sagers, or the higher end HP/Dell would be better.
What sort of work do you do? Do you do a lot of super high poly modeling, sculpting, etc? Will this be your main workstation? If yes to both, probably better to go with something higher end than the Sony.
If you want to do more causual 3d work, the Sony is likely more than enough.
I bought an Asus G75VW almost a year ago and it still runs like new. It's a 17" inch with 16GB RAM, GTX670 M, and a 3610QM. Dual fans, rear venting, and runs quietly even with multiple programs open. Easy access to the 2 HDD bays and RAM if you ever want to upgrade it too. If I remember correctly it was around the $1600 mark with tax included.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/14/samsung-series-7-gamer-review/
this is one of the reasons to avoid sony, lenovo etc. they do not really have any clue when it comes to 17 workstation business. they are consumer electronics. the idea that there customers want to upgrade system components does not even exist in there support plans. trying to deal with these companies is very painful and very expensive. you will have to ship your system to them and pay for full parts and service on any replacements that you get. that is really expensive. and in many cases if something breaks a few years after you buy it the only support option is to trade in your system for credit on a new system.
dell is ok. they have a support plan for there workstations and it is easier to get parts and long term repairs. but they still generally require you to ship your system to them and pay for full parts and service on any upgrades or repairs. the other problem with dell is they have a huge markup. there systems and parts are way over priced. you will notice you can not get a geforce card only quadro. that is a huge markup and waste of money imo. there workstation customers are almost exclusively large studios that will pay the markup. often these systems are leased and returned for new upgraded systems so they are not actually paying the sticker price.
sager's main focus is on 17 workstations / gaming systems. when you need to deal with support they know exactly what you want and what parts you need. they are focused on long term support so if you have a 3+ year old system and the video card dies you can get a replacement. also they are very lenient on there support contract and you can buy parts and upgrade them yourself which is a huge savings. there systems are designed so you can easily upgrade system components on your own, which is not the case with most 17 systems. even the video card in some cases can be replaced easily which can not be done with most of the other systems on the market.
so you need to take into consideration
branding markup.
the cost of parts, services and the flexibility of your warranty.
long term support availability.
these are some of the reasons why people end up with sager. after a year or two you start to realize how important these thing are if you want to seriously use a mobile workstation for the long term. there are other reasons why there system designs are better but that is probably more information then you need at this point.
you will notice on the new NP9570 the panel 1,2,3 is detachable and gives you easy access to remove and upgrade even your video card. the cooling designs generally run at a much lower temp then other systems i have seen. temp is a big issue with highend 17 laptops.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834312431
It's a Lenovo with both an integrated gpu and a dedicated one.
At first glance you will see:
intel i5 3230M(2.60GHz)
17" LED lit LCD
6 Gigs of RAM
NVIDIA Geforce GT 635M (2 gigs)
USB 3.0 + 2.0
HDMI & VGA
$650!!!!!!
Now the screen wont be the best out there... those are rgb led lcd's which you can find in the Dell Precision workstations (I own one of these and can vouch for it) but the price tags are usually extremely high.
So for $650, you can get a solid laptop thats not a huge investment (cause lets face it, tech is growing at an extremely fast rate) and often we find ourselves replacing tech as it becomes outdated.
So with a $650 price tag, it leaves you open to buy more premium secondary devices to make it a great combo. For example: Wacom Cintiq 13hd ($999) or a Lenovo wacom enabled portable touchscreen ISP USB powered monitor which starts at $350. Whats important about these is that they can go with whatever system you need them for. I cant do anything with all those old laptop parts other than sell them.
If you are still interested in the Sager, I can vouch for those as well. I have one thats still working strong after about 8+ years, but it did get outdated pretty fast... so mostly it collects dust.
If really want the best of the best, check out the offerings by Dell for their precision line of mobile workstations. The key is that those come with great support. When my precision had an "accident", they sent someone out and fixed it up with new parts as part of the coverage.
My advice is, get something cheap but capable like the lenovo I posted, then spend the rest on premium secondary products to aid you in your work. Wacom cintiqs or lenovo thinkvisions.
What are you trying to do, swap a CPU(rarely ever cost effective with any computer, laptop or pc) or swap the GPU or something? Even with the most upgradable laptop, you're still extremely limited in the amount and type of components you can put into it.
With the OP's budget, he should be able to afford everything he wants in a laptop from day one. A real upgrade to the sort of machine he's talking about would have to be an entirely new machine in a few years with a different generation of CPU etc that won't fit into his old machine anyway(no matter who makes it).
Exactly. Its not worth trying to upgrade laptops over all...by their own design they are less about upgradability and more about being replaced altogether.
To further compound your point, intel's haswell processor will come out sometime this year, so any cpu now will be outdated by that in less than a year. For this kind of hardware its better to buy cheaper with the intent to replace as oppose to big investments for the long haul...
@Baron flame
That makes it tempting to get a sager then if you are really enjoying the current setup you have. I wouldn't be buying a separate monitor but it sounds like the screen you got for the laptop is working fine though. Sager seems to be the best bet as far as getting the best bang for your buck or at least that's what I am starting to think.
@earthquake
The primary work I do is high poly modeling, sculpting, and sometimes UDK thrown in. This most likely would not be my main workstation, I have a decent desktop. Looking at laptops mainly for mobility so that I if go out of town or something like that I have the ability to still work on 3D or to even work in another room or outside if I chose to. I am still looking at that sony laptop but leaning towards sager now. I aiming to not have to upgrade this laptop at any given point.
@slayer89
I had looked into ASUS laptops but after talking with a handful of people they suggested to stray away from gaming laptops and more to laptop workstations. Though its still a possibility.
@Andreas
I can only imagine how awesome it would run with a SSD.
@fonfa
Looking at the link you provided currently. From what I can tell its a pretty solid laptop.
@gray
Wow you have some very valid points. From what I can gather between everyone's post, and the research that I have done over last night and today sager seems to be the safest bet. Id rather get a laptop from a place that understands how they work etc vs a place that doesn't exactly know much about them. I am hoping to avoid having to upgrade/repair anything for at least 2-3 years but I suppose the repair part comes down to luck.
@dataday
You also have a lot of valid points haha. Technology rapidly changes no doubt about. Did not know there was going to be a new Intel processor coming out that, that is interesting. I will definitely be taking into account what you said.
Hmm. Sounds like a lot of good things will come from these new chips. Thank you for the info. I am starting to think investing in a laptop around the 1000$ range if not less is the safest bet since it wont be my main workstation. Will most likely be making a decision here in a day or so don't want to rush it.
the lower the price point for a general purpose laptop its less of an issue because you paying for mid grade performance and parts that will be obsolete in a few years so you just buy another low price system.
but when your looking at 17 workstations at 2k$+ then your configuring high end geforce and quadro cards, 32gig ram configurations and the newest cpu buses. this means that the mother boards in these systems are much, much better and more extensible then your average laptop. if you get the specs for these boards they are more in the class of atx mobos which are designed for a longer window of upgrade possibilities. you can generally stretch a atx workstation for 5+ years through one major upgrade cycle where you swap out the graphics card and ram. you can use the same strategy with a well designed 17. they offer bios upgrades for new hardware support so you can stretch the better system bus for quite a while.
in this case you pay more up front for the best performance and parts. the systems are designed to be upgraded. its not cost effective to buy a whole new system at those prices every two years the way it is with a cheap laptop. you can upgrade the graphics card and a few other components and have the next generation of highend performance for much cheaper then it would cost to buy a whole new system.
the other issue is that on the highend graphics cards there is a much higher level of failuer then there is with desktop cards. the engineering is much tougher. the heat profiles are much higher. video card failure is a known problem. if you buy a 2k$+ system and your graphics card dies out of your short parts coverage. say 2 years. with any of the major manufacturers like sony etc your looking at over 1k$+ to do a gpu replacement for parts and labour. that is assuming they even have the parts available. they generally do not after 2 years your only option is credit for a new system. with sager and a few others you can get parts 4+ years on with little markup. and the systems are designed to be upgraded for that long.
so the strategy is to keep the laptop with a better bus for longer just like you do with a desktop workstation.
you spend for one upgrade cycle on the graphics card and upgrades which is much cheaper then buying a whole new system but you get the new system performance.
for the price of a workstation you want the security that the manufacturer can replace parts with low markup 2+ years on. and that there support is designed to facilitate that sort of business.
Ok, if you plan on running UDK a lot I definitely wouldn't go with the HP or Dell with FireGL/Quadro cards. You're going to want a mid-high end Nvidia gaming GPU. The 620m and 640m options for the Sony is likely not enough to run UDK very well. So Sager is probably your best bet with a 670m or something like that.
On the other hand, as a secondary system to do occasional 3d work, that Sony with 620/640m will be totally fine.
One more thing: Try to get Win7 Pro if you can. Win8 is a real shit show.
I plan on getting windows 7 since I have only heard bad things for windows 8. Thanks for pointing out that quadro cards would not be good if I am doing UDK work. I was not aware of that. I have narrowed my decision down to either the Sony or a Sager.
the only thing i would change is switch to a 60-120 solid state drive for the os. then throw in a cheap huge sata in the second drive bay to put all your work on.
15's when you get highend graphics like that run a little hot. so you will need to get a cooling pad for 20$ or so.
also you might want to get a 2 year warranty and upgrade right before it expires. sometimes they will give you a discount. and see if they will give you a quote on a replacement video card.
you should be able to throw a new graphic card and the other 16 gigs in a few years and have a nice system for a few years after that.
edit:
also you might want to bookmark the clevo / sager forum over at notebookreview.
if you have questions thats the spot some of those guys know there shit.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/
np9150 general questions thread
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/717869-np9150-general-question.html
Thank you for the awesome feedback/advice and giving me the two links. Looking at both links while I make my final decision. Thanks again.
Awesome thanks for the heads up.
@Baron
My original plan was just to buy straight from Sager, unless I found a reason not to. I also agree with you and gray on the NP9150. In the end I think that will ultimately get me what I need.
Np9370
i7-3740 3.7Ghz on boost
GTX680m(SLI Ready, only one card ATM)
16GB RAM
256GB SSD
750GB HDD
17" screen (The cheapest one you can get, Regrettably)