T-90 Tank - Hoping to finish this soon.

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Hello guys,

First time to post on Polycounts. I started this high poly model of the T-90 Russian tank about 2 months ago, and I was hoping this would be a good (and ambitious) learning method for me to get used to high poly modelling since I am currently a student waiting to graduate. I was hoping this forum would give me the inspiration and push me to finish this very detailed model.

Would love to read your comments, suggestions and criticism, and I hope you enjoy my work.

Thank you!
EDIT: I uploaded using an Image share Website instead of using normal attachment.

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

These are some of the references I am using so you guys can see what I have done thus far.

joeriv · Mar 2013

Upload your images to a image hosting site, and add them with the IMG tag.
Really it's so much more nice to open a thread and see what is in it.
And now I list my message because I wanted to check something and I lost it.

-Work on your renders, the most important thing now, is get some shots off the overal/shape/proportions (the hard part) instead of 4 zoomed in screens of some detail.

-The first 2 are also not to great to look at, the last 2 are a bit better, but if you at the end want to do a nice hp render, might want to work a little more on that.

Model itself:

The outer thing around the wheels is actually some sort of like hard rubber/plastic like material, and has softer edges then the actual metal.
Even if they aren't soft in your ref (depends on how worn they are) it might not be a bad idea to really soften those a bit because the whole tank already is metal, so some softer shapes in there is always nice.

Just in general you could loosen your edges a bit, this gets said a lot, but in this case it's not only because of the normals, but it almost starts to feel more then a lowpoly with lots of detail then a highpoly.

Especially some parts, for example have a look at the actual wheel (the metal part and the outer part) and compare that to your 3d version:

I know how much work it is, and fixing those things,but really, not only will it look a lot nicer, and just look nice if you nail it.

But it will also feel like the tank is actually made out of thick metal, instead of the almost "made out of aluminium" look it has now.
if that sort of makes sense, kind of hard to explain

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

joeriv wrote: »

Upload your images to a image hosting site, and add them with the IMG tag.
Really it's so much more nice to open a thread and see what is in it.
And now I list my message because I wanted to check something and I lost it.

-Work on your renders, the most important thing now, is get some shots off the overal/shape/proportions (the hard part) instead of 4 zoomed in screens of some detail.

-The first 2 are also not to great to look at, the last 2 are a bit better, but if you at the end want to do a nice hp render, might want to work a little more on that.

Model itself:

The outer thing around the wheels is actually some sort of like hard rubber/plastic like material, and has softer edges then the actual metal.
Even if they aren't soft in your ref (depends on how worn they are) it might not be a bad idea to really soften those a bit because the whole tank already is metal, so some softer shapes in there is always nice.

Just in general you could loosen your edges a bit, this gets said a lot, but in this case it's not only because of the normals, but it almost starts to feel more then a lowpoly with lots of detail then a highpoly.

Especially some parts, for example have a look at the actual wheel (the metal part and the outer part) and compare that to your 3d version:

I know how much work it is, and fixing those things,but really, not only will it look a lot nicer, and just look nice if you nail it.

But it will also feel like the tank is actually made out of thick metal, instead of the almost "made out of aluminium" look it has now.
if that sort of makes sense, kind of hard to explain

Very good criticism mate, thank you. I know how much needs to be done but I will do my best to fix issues along the way. updates coming soon.

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Ok managed to fix the rubber segment of the wheels, but I think they are a little too big?

Zweistein · Mar 2013

Your geometry seems to be off all over the place, especially so - the wheels. You trust that drawing too much and it's not too accurate, so, in order to improve your model, you need to check the stuff with photos.
A great walkaround of T-90 can be found here - http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/yuri_pasholok/t-90/
Please note, that the tank on that photos is late production T-90K, while your drawings seem to be for T-90A. There are some difference between them, like one has cast turret and another one welded, but most stuff around the hull and some stuff around the turret are the same.
Here's a couple of good shots showing roadwheel geometry - 1, 2
and there you can see the dimensions of a rubber tire - the outer diameter is 750 mm and the width is 190 mm.

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Zweistein wrote: »

Your geometry seems to be off all over the place, especially so - the wheels. You trust that drawing too much and it's not too accurate, so, in order to improve your model, you need to check the stuff with photos.
A great walkaround of T-90 can be found here - http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/yuri_pasholok/t-90/
Please note, that the tank on that photos is late production T-90K, while your drawings seem to be for T-90A. There are some difference between them, like one has cast turret and another one welded, but most stuff around the hull and some stuff around the turret are the same.
Here's a couple of good shots showing roadwheel geometry - 1, 2
and there you can see the dimensions of a rubber tire - the outer diameter is 750 mm and the width is 190 mm.

Thanx for the input. I didn't model most of the tank using the drawing reference, in fact it was mostly from T-90A photo references.

Could you be more specific on the geometry that is "off" so I can have a look at it. Thank you for the links as well that will be very helpful.

Zweistein · Mar 2013

RetroBasel wrote: »

Thanx for the input. I didn't model most of the tank using the drawing reference, in fact it was mostly from T-90A photo references.

Could you be more specific on the geometry that is "off" so I can have a look at it. Thank you for the links as well that will be very helpful.

Hm, some of the "issues" I see might be caused by unfamiliar angle of view and aren't really there, but still, if it's helpful in some way:

- glacis (big armor plate at the front of a hull, upper one) should have an angle of 68 degrees from the vertical line. On your model, it looks like the angle is greater (well, I suppose the drawings should have covered you on that, but still, it looks odd)
- external dozer blade mount (the plate with six bolts at the glacis middle front) - the shape is kinda oversimplified and the bolt spacing looks odd
- headlamps look small
- signal lights (small periscope-like thingies behind headlamps) - check the lens size
- driver periscope might be too depressed into the hull (looks short) Same goes with the anti-neutron liner bits around the periscope
- anti-neutron liner mountings are way too small and of wrong shape. Also, they should all be of same size, while on your model the ones to the front of driver periscope are noticeably bigger than to ones to the side
- integral dozer blade looks pretty basic and unfinished
- mud flap edges (beside being too sharp) should be more straight, not bent like that
- stamped ribs on mud flaps look small-ish
- bolts on side ERA plates are kinda unscrewed and protrude too much
- side ERA plates possibly are too tall, making them more "square-ish"
- drive sprocket is way too small, and it's shape... see photos
- ventilator axis cap (large plate with five bolts at the hull rear) shouldn't be flat

And, as joeriv said before me, you should loosen the edges, especially at the places like fuel cells and boxes on track shelves.

Last, but not least, I am sorry if I sound like tank nerd asshole, you really did nice work with the model, and it's way better than the most I've seen.

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Zweistein wrote: »

Hm, some of the "issues" I see might be caused by unfamiliar angle of view and aren't really there, but still, if it's helpful in some way:

- glacis (big armor plate at the front of a hull, upper one) should have an angle of 68 degrees from the vertical line. On your model, it looks like the angle is greater (well, I suppose the drawings should have covered you on that, but still, it looks odd)
- external dozer blade mount (the plate with six bolts at the glacis middle front) - the shape is kinda oversimplified and the bolt spacing looks odd
- headlamps look small
- signal lights (small periscope-like thingies behind headlamps) - check the lens size
- driver periscope might be too depressed into the hull (looks short) Same goes with the anti-neutron liner bits around the periscope
- anti-neutron liner mountings are way too small and of wrong shape. Also, they should all be of same size, while on your model the ones to the front of driver periscope are noticeably bigger than to ones to the side
- integral dozer blade looks pretty basic and unfinished
- mud flap edges (beside being too sharp) should be more straight, not bent like that
- stamped ribs on mud flaps look small-ish
- bolts on side ERA plates are kinda unscrewed and protrude too much
- side ERA plates possibly are too tall, making them more "square-ish"
- drive sprocket is way too small, and it's shape... see photos
- ventilator axis cap (large plate with five bolts at the hull rear) shouldn't be flat

And, as joeriv said before me, you should loosen the edges, especially at the places like fuel cells and boxes on track shelves.

Last, but not least, I am sorry if I sound like tank nerd asshole, you really did nice work with the model, and it's way better than the most I've seen.

That is ok mate I actually accept criticism well but I am not as knowledgable as you're in modelling or understanding the structure of tanks, hence this is my first time modelling one. So that is why I needed input on my work to improve it and so far you're helping me plenty. So thank you for that, I really appreciate it and I appreciate all the help I can get from others as well.

and by the way, I have to google most of the terms you wrote, haha!

Envart · Mar 2013

Many of your edges are very tight and won't bake down very well. The bolts in particular should be flared slightly at the base to help with this. Unless you're using massive textures, or lots of tiling, you may have difficulties obtaining a satisfactory bake.

NormalMap?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=normal_slopes_hatred.jpg

NormalMap?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=normal_slopes_hatred.jpg

Some technical study may help.
http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap?action=show&redirect=Normal+Map

Keep up the good work man!

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Walrus wrote: »

Many of your edges are very tight and won't bake down very well. The bolts in particular should be flared slightly at the base to help with this. Unless you're using massive textures, or lots of tiling, you may have difficulties obtaining a satisfactory bake.

Some technical study may help.
http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap?action=show&redirect=Normal+Map

Keep up the good work man!

Thanx for the help mate. unfortunately for this piece of work i am only going to make a high poly model and i might not bake it at all. however, i might do that in the near future, so i will keep those tips in mind when i work on the rest of the tank. thanx again

RetroBasel · Mar 2013

Ok I managed to make small changes to the tank. Hopefully I will continue to model as I fix issues with it.

Here are some of the fixes. I worked on the rubber segment of the wheels and so far I think it looks better now. also I smoothed some of the edges on areas i marked.

I also smoothed edges for some areas here.

Will update maybe tomorrow. Thanx guys!

T-90 Tank - Hoping to finish this soon.

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