The Walking Dead is not an AAA game, it's a low budget game sold at a budget price, digitally. The sales figures they release in January say the games made $40 million in sales (presumably of all episodes combined) which is an enormous success for a small budget game.
However to put that into perspective Skyrim made $450 million in sales in its first week, god only knows what it has made since it's launch in 2011. The game had a budget of $85 million. If it had only made $40 million in sales not only would it have been a crippling financial failure, it also likely would have killed off the entire franchise
if skyrim cost 85 and made 450, and walking dead made 40, then what was the cost of development for walking dead. even if it was like 5 million they still made off better
if skyrim cost 85 and made 450, and walking dead made 40, then what was the cost of development for walking dead. even if it was like 5 million they still made off better
You think making $35m is better than making $365m?
ROI is a useful measure of performance efficiency but it is not the exclusive yardstick for success.
Edit: Also those were the Week 1 sales figures for Skyrim. On (roughly) the same timeline as TWD, Skyrim had sold $620m putting its ROI fairly close to TWD (using your 5m dev cost figure), while netting $500m more than TWD in revenue. Again, ROI is not everything.
When I mentioned the success of The Walking Dead game, I meant the fact it sold near 9m episodes, compared to a triple A game like Skyrim (which sold near 14m apparently). If a small budget game can reach sale figures like that with a black lead character then why can't a triple A game? This brings me back to the question of whether these people who control what race or gender a lead character is going to be know what the consumers actually want.
I've not read through the thread, so feel free to ignore this if it's already been addressed.
My only issue with this is that your title says "Sterotypes in video games" and you immediately limit yourself to only the stereotypes of females and "ethnic" (which I'm assuming means anything but white) groups? Why not also include the stereotypes of "non-ethnic" or males? I see this double standard over in the tropes thread as well. Is it because the white male demographic really just doesn't care if they're being stereotyped; as we're not as hyper sensitive about it as we're told we're supposed to be?
When I mentioned the success of The Walking Dead game, I meant the fact it sold near 9m episodes, compared to a triple A game like Skyrim (which sold near 14m apparently). If a small budget game can reach sale figures like that with a black lead character then why can't a triple A game?
Selling 8 million copies of a game that costs $25 at max price is not the same as selling 8 million copies of a game that costs $60.
Angry Birds has sold well over 100 million copies to date, do you think it would be able to do that with a $60 pricepoint? Is this an indicator that the Angry Birds developers know better than Telltale and Bethesda what consumers want?
As I mentioned earlier customers are also risk averse and just as developers are more likely to take risks with games that are inexpensive to develop, consumers are more likely to take a chance on an inexpensive game. Trying to form any conclusion by comparing games in different genres, with very different target audiences, at different price points is going to be tenuous at best.
I don't want to send the message that TWD's success is not a good sign, any new information about what players in ANY market enjoy is of huge benefit to the industry, however that is not the same as evidence that the same ideas can be applied to AAA titles and still enjoy competitive success.
This brings me back to the question of whether these people who control what race or gender a lead character is going to be know what the consumers actually want.
Every consumer who is unhappy with their choices thinks developers/publishers/marketers are just imbeciles who "don't really know what consumers want"...
Edit: Sorry I didn't realize your only point about TWD was that it had a black lead character? If that is your only criteria then there are examples of that already in AAA games, Prototype 2 and Crysis 3 come to mind. However they aren't much better for generalizing...
Prototype 2 failed to outsell the first game. The studio that made it was essentially killed off as a result. However the game launched during a period when overall videogame sales were plummeting so it is possible that the games poor performance was beyond anyone's control.
Crysis 3 is an unusual case because the lead character is never shown in any of the marketing material without his suit which makes it impossible to distinguish his race unless you've already played the previous games.
Edit 2: Starhawk also had a lead black character. Abysmal sales. sold 200,000 copies (compared to its predecessor in the series which sold 1 million) before the studio laid off 25 employees and said they were going to focus on indie titles instead...
like others have said, the thing about the portrayal of women goes both ways. I see far too many muscular morons in games, not every man is a dumb blunt instrument (wearing 200 pounds of armor and carrying a big gun).
I absolutely agree; I really hope we can get past the muscle-bound skin-head power-armour space marine sticking to chest-high walls in this coming generation! :thumbup:
I absolutely agree; I really hope we can get past the muscle-bound skin-head power-armour space marine sticking to chest-high walls in this coming generation! :thumbup:
You mean we haven't already? There's more male protagonists that are lean than there is shuffling mountains of muscle now. The Assassins Creed guys, Corvo, 47, Adam Jensen, Geralt, Max Payne, Wei Shen, for the other side... all that comes to mind are the Gears, maybe Master Chief too
I'd ask why the muscle bound guy in armour and buxom woman in a bikini image of games remains when it's not that prevalent.
One thing that I have noticed is that female "armor" has gone from impractical but plausible to impractical and implausible – instead of chainmail bikinis, which are quite possible to make in real life, female armor seems to now be made up of smaller pieces that are somehow stuck to the skin and are never dislodged no matter how active you are.
You mean we haven't already? There's more male protagonists that are lean than there is shuffling mountains of muscle now. The Assassins Creed guys, Corvo, 47, Adam Jensen, Geralt, Max Payne, Wei Shen, for the other side... all that comes to mind are the Gears, maybe Master Chief too
I'd ask why the muscle bound guy in armour and buxom woman in a bikini image of games remains when it's not that prevalent.
True, but we do have another Gears of War coming out next month. And not to mention Japan seem to be emulating their art style unfortunately so we're getting games like RE5 etc.
I'd ask why the muscle bound guy in armour and buxom woman in a bikini image of games remains when it's not that prevalent.
This is just a little too ironic for me, lol, your name is marine and your profile pic is of a chick's ass in a bathtub.
I think its still quite prevalent, minus the armor thing, and I don't really see it in decline either. In fact i'm inclined to think it's so prevalent that most of us don't notice it anymore.
I'm starting to think this post may have ran its course, thanks everyone that commented, got some really good advice, insights and views for the paper. Really surprised with the amount of responses and by the mix of opinions, I'm taking the advice of streamlining the topic to be more specific; I'm planning to discuss more about the player-publisher/developer relationship when it comes to lead character design (I've planned it out to be more specific).
Replies
ROI is a useful measure of performance efficiency but it is not the exclusive yardstick for success.
Edit: Also those were the Week 1 sales figures for Skyrim. On (roughly) the same timeline as TWD, Skyrim had sold $620m putting its ROI fairly close to TWD (using your 5m dev cost figure), while netting $500m more than TWD in revenue. Again, ROI is not everything.
My only issue with this is that your title says "Sterotypes in video games" and you immediately limit yourself to only the stereotypes of females and "ethnic" (which I'm assuming means anything but white) groups? Why not also include the stereotypes of "non-ethnic" or males? I see this double standard over in the tropes thread as well. Is it because the white male demographic really just doesn't care if they're being stereotyped; as we're not as hyper sensitive about it as we're told we're supposed to be?
Angry Birds has sold well over 100 million copies to date, do you think it would be able to do that with a $60 pricepoint? Is this an indicator that the Angry Birds developers know better than Telltale and Bethesda what consumers want?
As I mentioned earlier customers are also risk averse and just as developers are more likely to take risks with games that are inexpensive to develop, consumers are more likely to take a chance on an inexpensive game. Trying to form any conclusion by comparing games in different genres, with very different target audiences, at different price points is going to be tenuous at best.
I don't want to send the message that TWD's success is not a good sign, any new information about what players in ANY market enjoy is of huge benefit to the industry, however that is not the same as evidence that the same ideas can be applied to AAA titles and still enjoy competitive success.
Every consumer who is unhappy with their choices thinks developers/publishers/marketers are just imbeciles who "don't really know what consumers want"...
Edit: Sorry I didn't realize your only point about TWD was that it had a black lead character? If that is your only criteria then there are examples of that already in AAA games, Prototype 2 and Crysis 3 come to mind. However they aren't much better for generalizing...
Prototype 2 failed to outsell the first game. The studio that made it was essentially killed off as a result. However the game launched during a period when overall videogame sales were plummeting so it is possible that the games poor performance was beyond anyone's control.
Crysis 3 is an unusual case because the lead character is never shown in any of the marketing material without his suit which makes it impossible to distinguish his race unless you've already played the previous games.
Edit 2: Starhawk also had a lead black character. Abysmal sales. sold 200,000 copies (compared to its predecessor in the series which sold 1 million) before the studio laid off 25 employees and said they were going to focus on indie titles instead...
I absolutely agree; I really hope we can get past the muscle-bound skin-head power-armour space marine sticking to chest-high walls in this coming generation! :thumbup:
You mean we haven't already? There's more male protagonists that are lean than there is shuffling mountains of muscle now. The Assassins Creed guys, Corvo, 47, Adam Jensen, Geralt, Max Payne, Wei Shen, for the other side... all that comes to mind are the Gears, maybe Master Chief too
I'd ask why the muscle bound guy in armour and buxom woman in a bikini image of games remains when it's not that prevalent.
True, but we do have another Gears of War coming out next month. And not to mention Japan seem to be emulating their art style unfortunately so we're getting games like RE5 etc.
This is just a little too ironic for me, lol, your name is marine and your profile pic is of a chick's ass in a bathtub.
I think its still quite prevalent, minus the armor thing, and I don't really see it in decline either. In fact i'm inclined to think it's so prevalent that most of us don't notice it anymore.
I see only a beautiful heart. It's about love, really.
Thanks again.