Is it just perfectionism?
Hello
I hear often from persons who see my art and WIP pictures, that I have potential, no matter if it 2D or 3D. The most of the stuff i create, which other people really like, I don't like. Till now (around 3 years of modelling exp. and 2 years of painting learning) I had just 2 projects I really like. Okay I know that they are kinds of artists outside which can't see her finished work, but I want later a job in the game industry - currently I start to study "Interactive Media & Design" on a German university. But how could I work on a creative industry when I don't love what I exactly create?
Don't misunderstood me, I don't have a lack of ideas. Moreover, I like to entertain people with that what I do.
Is this just perfectionism or have this from time to time every artist? :poly131:
Greetings
Steven3D
I hear often from persons who see my art and WIP pictures, that I have potential, no matter if it 2D or 3D. The most of the stuff i create, which other people really like, I don't like. Till now (around 3 years of modelling exp. and 2 years of painting learning) I had just 2 projects I really like. Okay I know that they are kinds of artists outside which can't see her finished work, but I want later a job in the game industry - currently I start to study "Interactive Media & Design" on a German university. But how could I work on a creative industry when I don't love what I exactly create?
Don't misunderstood me, I don't have a lack of ideas. Moreover, I like to entertain people with that what I do.
Is this just perfectionism or have this from time to time every artist? :poly131:
Greetings
Steven3D
Replies
Fact is, if you think your own work is perfect, then you have no incentive to improve. Know that there is always somebody better than you are. Strive to always be better. If people like your work, that's a good thing, it means you're doing something right. If you think your own work is perfect, you're doing something wrong.
Haha
I was heavily depressed for half a decade and this imposter syndrome (although mild) is something I still suffer from. I wouldn't call it emo or bs. Regardless of what wikipedia may say about it, it's caused by chemical and hormonal imbalances, both of which I had when depressed. It's something I still struggle with to some extent (along with social anxiety disorder) although I'm no longer depressed. It's not something I make light of when others experience it.
You just have to keep at it. Keep working hard and hopefully you'll realize how good you are (or aren't). Worst case, see a doctor about getting med treatment. I still need to do that myself, for the SAD issue.
HA! Can't tell if you're joking or not (limitation of the internet be damned!), but it's a real "thing". The link Justin posted outlines it pretty well.
OP: Im pretty sure you could poll the forum and find that at some point in thier early development most of the people on this board have felt like frauds waiting to be found out. You'll get over it
Theres also the possibility that the OP is just one of those artists that never rest on their finished works and instead feel more accomplishment from the execution of technique and workflow during the project. Its a very common thing for traditional artists to focus more on the process of creating than the finished product. Perhaps the same could be said for some digital artists as well.
Issue is it can always be improved based upon time, be it due to something new you saw and want to integrate it as part of your work, or more power to render something a little different.
I look at the stuff I have produced and its almost as though soemone else did it for me.
hard to explain that really.
I never felt that way when I was a waterclour/airbrush srtist though. strange how 3d messes with your head.
Eh no time to worry about crap when you have deadlines xD
thanks for the replies.
Because this I am now on polycount. I think, if a professional artist would say me i have potential, I would true him more than a artist who work maybe since 3-8 years as hobby :poly121:
But I see i am not so un-normal, I may just too less experienced :poly124:
Greetings
Steven3D
I'd imagine it rings true for a lot of artists.
In a professional level its the same, Crytek UK had a level go out for GamesCom recently and I was really proud of what the team managed to accomplish, but whenever I see footage or screenshots all I do is cringe. Its important to be critical of your own work in a constructive way, just make sure you don't drift into negativity as that won't help yourself and most importantly. The team.
Get into the swing of looking at your own work and asking yourself "why exactly do I not like this?" its important to understand what's wrong and why. Is it a high level issue or are you getting bogged down in the details? Is the composition just not there?
Also, you will always find people who like your work. I have seen stick men that people come out and praise, your not looking for gratitude your looking for the constructive criticism.
So to sum it up, your work will never be good enough. But its the most important part of being an artist.
I mean who do you think you are? Some kind of 'King' of Normals? I bet your enjoy projecting in your cage, full of self righteous rays, and I bet you would starve children in Africa if you could, if you could get your hands on some kind of Anisotropic sword which shade's you from cageless environment.
Uhhh, perma...
I never said it was a condition/disorder. I said it was a "thing." A "thing" that Im sure you once felt yourself when you were first starting out, I know at your level that might seem like ages ago but Im sure there was a time when you received praise that you felt you should not have gotten because you felt you weren't good enough yet.
But I never went so far as to call it a disorder that's why I sepcifiaclly said thing with quotation marks around it... You kinda jumped the gun there.
Not many folks have it all
Amen.
Then attack those who are considering the value of the research already performed, and when questioned become oppositional.
Lastly, while pointing out the fallacy of creating sympathetic tragedy, you back up your opinion with tragic facts about your ability to attract negativity from your peers, which is of course unnecessary to illustrate your point because...
All problems are CONTEXT SENSITIVE
You got health concerns? I feel bad for you, but that's probably why your ability to succeed at art is nothing to for you to whine about. Problems only exist when somebody wants what is gotten from solving them, and when this becomes a strong concern, every participating factor influences it.
Starving people in third-world countries wouldn't complain much about how hard it is to make friends, because that's not their major concern.
But people with 'first-world problems' don't need to worry anywhere near as much about food, shelter, and other necessities and so their major concern now becomes: career, capability, social-standing, expectations, relationships, aspirations, boredom, psychological disorders.
So a problem's a problem, how about we be a little more proactive about solving it instead of your approach of:
"You depressed? Well aren't you a little emo sack of shit!"
sounds a lot like
"You starving? Seriously go get some food!"
I hope you find my post humorous as we'll get to laugh together! I love Internet fights and what I've quoted above is the most classic way of stating you've lost it.
now Per might not have the warmth of a Disney movie's mother sometimes, but I am not sure the conclusion you draw is what he meant, nor can I know. However, my interpretation of "emo BS" was more like
You depressed? It's okay, you are a human, do not seek for too detailed physiological explanations of behavior (diseases being cause of xyz) the one disease you got is being human and it's not gonna go away (does not decrease with age and ...). Seek for the "results you want", what gets you from a to b. Positiveness vs "xyz prevents me from b".
The emo BS here being focusing too much on the negative "blockers". And I would say that this is a valid suggestion.
http://www.snotm.com
Of course I do not mean to twist his words and indeed he may mean exactly as you say. It's simply the impression I got from him claiming that whatever he was disagreeing with was "Emotional Bullshit" and from his subsequent reactions to other peoples' replies that he was less interested in discussing how psychological concerns can be a whole lot of "emotional bullshit to deal with" and instead that "everything you're talking about is 'emo' (see slang: person who is identified by uncharacteristic expression of emotion) 'BS' (see slang: bullshit - no worth, absolute lies).
One thing I dont like is the whole feeling I have to be a perfectionist when it comes to building HP stuff. Im always like, ok I need to make this super perfect which slows me down a TON. Really need to get over that and build HP stuff faster and looser as being super exact and perfect wont really be noticeable and certainly wont show up in the end baked result.
I'll definitely give you that, but it's hard to be specific on something that is kind of murky in the first place.
lol... The STD thing was a joke right. Right?! RIGHT!?...
I think this may have been a miscommunication (probably on my part) between what you meant by "emo bs" and what I mean by "emo bs".
I tend to view it as a "Woe is me pity me because my life is so hard waaaaa."
type of thing, which I didn't get from the OP.
I just took it as he was wondering if anyone else got the same sort of feeling or if he was just crazy.
Either way you're stance is pretty clear now and I don't necessarily disagree with it.
Although the more I think about the more Im not even sure that the OP was necessarily talking about Imposter Syndrome in which case Im gonna kinda feel like a big ol floppy dick.
I don't see how your tone doesn't count. It makes up a great deal of communication. I didn't need to imagine anything, if I was I'd have been the only person arguing with you throughout this thread.
Ok I re-read it and this is how it went:
[other people] Let's discuss this problem.
[other people] I know, how about this.
[perna] sorry you're wrong it's bullshit.
[other people] uhh, ok. Lets keep discussing this though.
[perna] what you don't get it? Ok I'll clarify, I don't think it's a problem so it's not a problem and you guys are all wrong. Also since I know I'm sounding a bit like a jerk I'll put a disclaimer at the end of my post that insults everybody I disagree with while claiming that I have won the discussion.
[other people] Hey dude you're not helping and we don't appreciate your attitude.
[perna] I feel forced to reply, I will clarify why I don't think this problem is a problem and I'll make some jokes. Then excuse my difficulty in communicating my point on others difficulty to communicate, when the inherent nature of this problem is clearly ambiguous.
[me] Hey man do you realise that a problem is a problem no matter how trivial and you're not helping since you tone make it hard to take you seriously.
[perna] somebody still disagrees with me? I better insult them and claim they are an example of everything I'm arguing against.]
Of course I could be wrong, this could all be in my imagination even after reading the posts three times, maybe a fourth time would improve my reading comprehension. I apologise if you disagree as I don't know you much better than what you post as would be the same from my end.
Once again I must apologise for my bad communication if you think there was charged emotional content in my previous posts, of which I was attempting to remain neutral (with exception to the last paragraph talking about internet discussion). It could have been when I talked in all-caps but I was trying to highlight my argument. I can understand how you think my definition of 'problem' was an attempt to force my ideas on you, however I don't see how that's much different to your attempts to berate others for approaching a problem that did not fit your definition.
I agree with you on bringing as you call it 'Africa' into the debate. I did not want to use it in my argument and I'll admit it is my own failing that I couldn't think of a better way to illustrate my point. Please don't think I wanted to continue discussing it as I only wanted to use it to provide distinction between problems people of the world deal with and how we approach them.
As nice as it sounds it's actually a bit hard to imagine and may well be incredibly boring as most problems are invented by people. Animals for instance, just go about their lives performing what their instincts tell them to and when they can't do what is needed they move on or die.
People invent all their problems:
If I was walking along a river and saw something I wanted but I had no idea how to cross safely, I now have a problem that previously wasn't there before. Now a trait pretty much unique to humans is the ability to communicate that one has a problem they don't know how to solve on their own. So I complain to you about it (thinking you might know more about crossing rivers). You reply "who cares? not my problem. I think you're just lazy, and don't even attempt to try and convince me that this thing you want is good or that solving your problem could help others cross rivers."
I don't feel better or more capable about getting across the river and the problem still remains
please
No, this is why you stop visiting GD and just visit P&P (and the other art-related sub-forums).
I do not wish to make anybody conform to my ways of thinking. When I saw the discussion breaking down and your irritation of other posters misinterpretation and reaction to negative vibes I felt compelled to bring up how we could approach this in a way where we're not all hating on each others attitudes, y'know I thought I was trying to help. Of course I'm just as vulnerable to biased communication and no matter how much I tried to keep my posts neutral and objective, it was still bad enough to keep the argument going.
Maybe, maybe not. I post here because it makes me feel like a part of the game industry. I'm competent at a "general discussion" but I'm definitely amateur in comparison to the regular P&P posters.
That might be a good reason to gd less and draw more. There's nothing wrong with your skill level (whatever it is) but if you self diagnose as not good enough for pnp, then you should know you need to spend more time learning to kick ass.
I agree, i know I like talk but I should probably send my "community participation" in another direction.
In fact I pretty much refused to post here until I posted some art in P&P, no matter how bad, I didn't believe I had the right. I was thinking about this in light of this thread and started to wonder if GD should have been split into 2 camps: introduction/questions about industry/education and actual normal GD for nosh and arguments.
The first would be good as I see so many new guys coming in asking the same questions and they're referred to the same stickies and always asked to show their work and they often fail to deliver on that. But if they want to continue with polycount they will get sent to P&P for some actual results before...
The second should be behind a wall only opened after a certain amount of participation in P&P. I only say this because just like I believe now about myself, many of us after encouraged to go back there instead of hanging out here and that there is a certain mindset and experience grown by producing work within polycount that would make any discussions and arguments in GD much more coherent.
But I would understand if other think that sounds like a terrible way to split the community too.
Emo Baking Software
Great for long fringes and the gives great looking skinny jeans.
Regardless of settings, the AO maps always come out black though.:'(
Critic: meh, yea it's ok.
Emo: WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET YOU TO LOVE MY ART!?
Critic: Make better art.
Emo: But what if I make mediocre art with my FEET and I have ADHD!?
Critic: Then in the category of "ADHD foot artists" you would be in a class to yourself.
Emo: FUCK YEA! I ROCK! I'm the greatest!
Critic: You are also the worst, it's not a complement. You're more likely to get a job in the circus side show than as a production artist, but good luck.
Emo: Maybe if I break my hands...
Critic: Maybe spend less time trying to qualify and disable yourself and spend more time working to become better?
Emo: I KNOW! I'll get in a car wreck! Then will have enough of these qualifiers to be considered better than average...
Personally I think this comes from parents praising their kids too much (or never) it becomes impossible for the kid to discern genuine praise. "I know you like it but do you like like it?" When "I like it" means "it's bad, try harder" hearing a honest critique sends them to the top of a tall building.
Yeah, I know. But mostly I write under the projects that I want real critic :icon15:
I wish... it seems like it's illegal now to say negative things about people's work, no matter how constructive the intentions are. I sometimes feel like we're limited to pictures of memes, and references to male orgasms to describe how much we like someone's work.