hmm, i keep hearing that HL2 has a great story.
I certainly enjoyed its gameplay, as in shooting dudes and shooting mattresses onto dudes. controlling antlions was cool too. gameplay was well balanced and diverse enough not to get boring.
and i did enjoy realistic lighting (for its time), all the Havok fun, the atmosphere of many levels and combine designs.
but... story? could someone explain to me what are the aspects of HL2's plot that made it 'great'?
oh, and the whole Eli/Kleiner convo at the end of ep2 exposed once again (at least to me) that having a completely silent protganist just doesn't work in this kind of story.
i mean seriously, i'm Muad Dib, the great hero and saviour but nobody even cares what i think on a matter that could change the fate of whole mankind?
throughout every conversation in HL2 games i felt utterly irrelevant, like a 7 years old kid hanging around the adults.
You're right, Blaisoid. The story doesn't seem that interesting on paper(from an objective view) and the interactivity in the dialogue is non-existent. It gets you involved though, you want to know more, it has that mystery thing where they hardly tell you what's been going on and makes you want to explore the story and what not.
In my opinion you are describing other FPS, not Half-Life. Half-Life is a huge adventure, well, 2 was anyhow. It's not a twitch shooter at all, it's an experience, that just happens to be in FPS. You 'click on dudes' in Skyrim too... I find those two games very similar really. The scope, atmosphere and story is incredible, and that is the focus.
I didn't play Skyrim either, because I just don't enjoy clicking on dudes all that much! Personally I've never played a game of which I think the story was any good at all - but that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that, Beethoven's 9th doesn't have a story and it's still quite good. As for atmosphere, I consider Half-life decidedly weak compared to Eastern European games such as STALKER, Metro 2033 or The Void, but that could just be me. I mean, HL2 isn't even subtle, from the moment you're in the train everything's Orwellian, scary speeches are being given, soldiers have gas masks and alien robots and the Combine might as well just call themselves 'The Bad Guys' for how obviously evil they are and how badly Valve wants to drive that point home. Whereas in, say, STALKER you're just tossed into the wilderness and told to have fun, and you'll be ravaged by wild dogs and imploded by anomalies and that's how you learn to fear, by gameplay, not by theatrics.
Anyway zweb I think hl2 is riddled with flaws but you aren't really being that fair too it. Maybe it's a better game than you remember?
No games are better than I remember - whenever I go back, they're always worse - or I like them less, at least. I'm not saying it's a bad game, mind, not at all, it's just one I don't particularly enjoy. For so far as I can be said to enjoy video games at all these days, I'm just getting too old for them.
I didn't play Skyrim either, because I just don't enjoy clicking on dudes all that much! Personally I've never played a game of which I think the story was any good at all - but that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that, Beethoven's 9th doesn't have a story and it's still quite good. As for atmosphere, I consider Half-life decidedly weak compared to Eastern European games such as STALKER, Metro 2033 or The Void, but that could just be me. I mean, HL2 isn't even subtle, from the moment you're in the train everything's Orwellian, scary speeches are being given, soldiers have gas masks and alien robots and the Combine might as well just call themselves 'The Bad Guys' for how obviously evil they are and how badly Valve wants to drive that point home. Whereas in, say, STALKER you're just tossed into the wilderness and told to have fun, and you'll be ravaged by wild dogs and imploded by anomalies and that's how you learn to fear, by gameplay, not by theatrics.
No games are better than I remember - whenever I go back, they're always worse - or I like them less, at least. I'm not saying it's a bad game, mind, not at all, it's just one I don't particularly enjoy. For so far as I can be said to enjoy video games at all these days, I'm just getting too old for them.
+1 zweb
but i'd add that i dont really find the stalker types that much better in this way. I think theyre just as full of tropes and heavy handed, it's just they do it in a very eastern european way which is more fresh to western consumers.
edit: oh right and i should go on topic shouldnt i. I don't look forward to hl3 because i didnt find hl2 enjoyable or engaging or deep or particularly original, although i can't wait to see the amount of different hats my faceless and voiceless protagonist can choose to wear during the campaign.
srsly though did anyone else notice half the concept drawings of the main char are demonstrating different hats or was it just me
Zwebbie, it's strange to read that you've enjoyed playing Stalker but describe Skyrim as 'clicking on dudes'. I think if you drop prejudice and give it a shot you'll be pleasantly surprised :}
but i'd add that i dont really find the stalker types that much better in this way. I think theyre just as full of tropes and heavy handed, it's just they do it in a very eastern european way which is more fresh to western consumers.
edit: oh right and i should go on topic shouldnt i. I don't look forward to hl3 because i didnt find hl2 enjoyable or engaging or deep or particularly original, although i can't wait to see the amount of different hats my faceless and voiceless protagonist can choose to wear during the campaign.
srsly though did anyone else notice half the concept drawings of the main char are demonstrating different hats or was it just me
I think you have developed a rare case of hatophobia
I actually look forward to HL3, but come on it's been years since last HL, but I also look forward more to what Valve will bring out with it, updated sdk tools, new interesting game mechanics and so on.
but i'd add that i dont really find the stalker types that much better in this way. I think theyre just as full of tropes and heavy handed, it's just they do it in a very eastern european way which is more fresh to western consumers.
Well, I'd agree that STALKER isn't really a beacon of creativity either, and the whole explanation at the end is just plain bad, but I think what differentiates it from Half-life, and most Western games, is that it at least dislikes you. It does always prop up guys or mutants when you least want it to, and it doesn't mind if you get killed by anomalies every now and again. Half-life, by contrast, loves you. It's a dystopia, but you can easily tell who the good and bad guys are, all the citizens love you, and Alyx is there to compliment you every time you solve a physics puzzle. The environment in STALKER is often trying to kill you in one way or another, in Half-life it's packed with goodies and traps that you can utilise, so that your surroundings are (with the possible exception of Sand Traps) your ally, and that's not really all that scary. It also has a tendency to show you new types of enemies, and then it wraps its arm around your shoulders: "do you see that thing? Man, it's scary, isn't it? Well, you're safe now, don't worry. But one day we'll let you fight it - you'll know when you find tons of rockets lying around." The game itself is never antagonistic, and that's why I think there's a bit of a ludonarrative dissonance with its dystopian theme. Which isn't to say it's easy - Half-life can be hard when you ramp up the difficulty - but it feels excessively fair.
Mind, if STALKER dislikes you, The Void downright despises you. Almost every player will have to restart the game after a few hours, because it doesn't tell you its rules, it lets you find them out for yourself and then when you think you understand them they're shown to have more consequences. But while everybody and their mother have played STALKER by now, The Void is rarely ever mentioned by anyone, despite being on sale just about every other week, so it's a bit harder to talk about.
Zwebbie, it's strange to read that you've enjoyed playing Stalker but describe Skyrim as 'clicking on dudes'. I think if you drop prejudice and give it a shot you'll be pleasantly surprised :}
Well, I did play Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas, so I like to think I've got a fair idea of what to expect from Skyrim. I've heard Fallout 3 described as a theme park before, and I think that's a fair criticism for all Bethesda games. FWIW, though, I probably would have enjoyed Skyrim greatly, say, 5 years ago, but I don't really play many games at all these days.
Guys, can we drop the term 'clicking on guys'? Other then sounding like a euphemism for the worst Porno ever, it's no better then describing all the FPS game as 'Doom Clones', which is downright silly and frankly degrading to say the least.
Also, I would like to challenge anyone to say what exactly can we do differently then 'clicking on dudes'? I click in Limbo, I click in Halo, I click in Mass Effect, I click in STALKER and I sure as fucking hell click in flash games, you might as well say sex is essentially who spongy bodies exchanging bodily fluids and that it doesn't feel good, if we're going to be so dry and cut about it.
I mean are you guys honestly telling me the mass IQ challenged posters on Kotaku are more capable of dissecting game-play and narrative elements between similar FPS games, than people who worked on some of them games on this forum?
HL1 & HL2 really raised the bar when they came out - not cutting away to a pre-rendered cinematic or taking control away from the character to show an event or to keep the player focused on dialogue was pretty revolutionary at the time.
HL1 & HL2 really raised the bar when they came out - not cutting away to a pre-rendered cinematic or taking control away from the character to show an event or to keep the player focused on dialogue was pretty revolutionary at the time.
That was a fine line to walk, in many cases, while playing HL2, I missed out set pieces to look at because I was too busy looking for more...'functional' things, like Combines or Flying Turtles.
For example, when near the beach, and driving the Go-Kart, before stopping at the Train Station near the rebels place, you can hop into a building up the road, and use a pair of Binoculars to 'peep' on your Rebel house, if you do, you will see G-Man talking with one of the Rebel Captains.
In Raven-city-full-of-monsters, the pipes tremble when being climbed by them monster monkeys, which I didn't see the first couple of time playing the game until I focused on it.
Also, in EP1, when running away in one of the long corridors full of ships, one of the ships flys off and crashes into the side of the steps, sending the Combine who is shooting you, flying off in the air, problem was I couldn't see the guy the first time, second time I killed him before the crash, and third time, I stood in the place, took a couple of hits before the scene event unrolled.
Basically, the idea was good, but other then HL2 itself, HL2 E1 and E2 didn't implement the scene pieces as well as they could have, and I spend more time 'looking' around me, trying to not miss out of anything rather then playing and enjoying the game, add with the fact we had less 'controlled' pieces where the player was either tied up or in a small room, and voila.
BTW, Batman Arkham City and Metro 2033 have the same issues, with the prior having it's Bat-Vision thingy ruining most of the moments for you, while the latter forcing you to sometimes slow down and scavenge stuff.
that is part of the hl experience, is how you get rewarded with little bits of story by looking around, instead of having it bluntly thrown in your face.
also your mention about having to scavenge stuff in metro taking away from it, well i think it adds to the metro atmosphere, cuase it shows how desperate things have gotten when everyone including you needs to scavenge for rubbish weapons, and ammo.
HL2 introduced large scripted events that happened without taking control away from the player - it upped the ante compared to HL1 and basically set the standard, everybody was flipping their lids about it at the time. I can see where people are bored of that now, the COD games are almost completely scripted events.
i dunno. being a pretty avid HL player including some of the more script-heavy custom levels, i guess hl2 just had almost no impact on me in that area. The only thing that hit me as unique was the grav gun tbh.
i do distinctly remember hl2 popularizing the idea that you can improve a cutscene by letting the player run around bored inside a contained area during it, throwing notebooks and boxes around like a chimp because it is the only method of interaction available. of course this has now become an fps standard
i do distinctly remember hl2 popularizing the idea that you can improve a cutscene by letting the player run around bored inside a contained area during it, throwing notebooks and boxes around like a chimp because it is the only method of interaction available. of course this has now become an fps standard
Don't take control away from the player! Everything must be dynamic! If I wanted to see good storytelling or meaningful writing I would read a wikipedia article about a book!
Don't take control away from the player! Everything must be dynamic! If I wanted to see good storytelling or meaningful writing I would read a wikipedia article about a book!
just dont pretend a cutscene the player can meaninglessly jump around in isn't a cutscene
just dont pretend a cutscene the player can meaninglessly jump around in isn't a cutscene
Of course it's not a cutscene! This is why classic western games like half life are vastly superior to games like final fantasy or metal gear solid. These are grownup stories about men hopping around rooms!
Replies
I certainly enjoyed its gameplay, as in shooting dudes and shooting mattresses onto dudes. controlling antlions was cool too. gameplay was well balanced and diverse enough not to get boring.
and i did enjoy realistic lighting (for its time), all the Havok fun, the atmosphere of many levels and combine designs.
but... story? could someone explain to me what are the aspects of HL2's plot that made it 'great'?
oh, and the whole Eli/Kleiner convo at the end of ep2 exposed once again (at least to me) that having a completely silent protganist just doesn't work in this kind of story.
i mean seriously, i'm Muad Dib, the great hero and saviour but nobody even cares what i think on a matter that could change the fate of whole mankind?
throughout every conversation in HL2 games i felt utterly irrelevant, like a 7 years old kid hanging around the adults.
No games are better than I remember - whenever I go back, they're always worse
+1 zweb
but i'd add that i dont really find the stalker types that much better in this way. I think theyre just as full of tropes and heavy handed, it's just they do it in a very eastern european way which is more fresh to western consumers.
edit: oh right and i should go on topic shouldnt i. I don't look forward to hl3 because i didnt find hl2 enjoyable or engaging or deep or particularly original, although i can't wait to see the amount of different hats my faceless and voiceless protagonist can choose to wear during the campaign.
srsly though did anyone else notice half the concept drawings of the main char are demonstrating different hats or was it just me
I think you have developed a rare case of hatophobia
I actually look forward to HL3, but come on it's been years since last HL, but I also look forward more to what Valve will bring out with it, updated sdk tools, new interesting game mechanics and so on.
Mind, if STALKER dislikes you, The Void downright despises you. Almost every player will have to restart the game after a few hours, because it doesn't tell you its rules, it lets you find them out for yourself and then when you think you understand them they're shown to have more consequences. But while everybody and their mother have played STALKER by now, The Void is rarely ever mentioned by anyone, despite being on sale just about every other week, so it's a bit harder to talk about.
Well, I did play Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas, so I like to think I've got a fair idea of what to expect from Skyrim. I've heard Fallout 3 described as a theme park before, and I think that's a fair criticism for all Bethesda games. FWIW, though, I probably would have enjoyed Skyrim greatly, say, 5 years ago, but I don't really play many games at all these days.
Also, I would like to challenge anyone to say what exactly can we do differently then 'clicking on dudes'? I click in Limbo, I click in Halo, I click in Mass Effect, I click in STALKER and I sure as fucking hell click in flash games, you might as well say sex is essentially who spongy bodies exchanging bodily fluids and that it doesn't feel good, if we're going to be so dry and cut about it.
I mean are you guys honestly telling me the mass IQ challenged posters on Kotaku are more capable of dissecting game-play and narrative elements between similar FPS games, than people who worked on some of them games on this forum?
I dont really feel where hl2 fits into that,
For example, when near the beach, and driving the Go-Kart, before stopping at the Train Station near the rebels place, you can hop into a building up the road, and use a pair of Binoculars to 'peep' on your Rebel house, if you do, you will see G-Man talking with one of the Rebel Captains.
In Raven-city-full-of-monsters, the pipes tremble when being climbed by them monster monkeys, which I didn't see the first couple of time playing the game until I focused on it.
Also, in EP1, when running away in one of the long corridors full of ships, one of the ships flys off and crashes into the side of the steps, sending the Combine who is shooting you, flying off in the air, problem was I couldn't see the guy the first time, second time I killed him before the crash, and third time, I stood in the place, took a couple of hits before the scene event unrolled.
Basically, the idea was good, but other then HL2 itself, HL2 E1 and E2 didn't implement the scene pieces as well as they could have, and I spend more time 'looking' around me, trying to not miss out of anything rather then playing and enjoying the game, add with the fact we had less 'controlled' pieces where the player was either tied up or in a small room, and voila.
BTW, Batman Arkham City and Metro 2033 have the same issues, with the prior having it's Bat-Vision thingy ruining most of the moments for you, while the latter forcing you to sometimes slow down and scavenge stuff.
also your mention about having to scavenge stuff in metro taking away from it, well i think it adds to the metro atmosphere, cuase it shows how desperate things have gotten when everyone including you needs to scavenge for rubbish weapons, and ammo.
HL2 introduced large scripted events that happened without taking control away from the player - it upped the ante compared to HL1 and basically set the standard, everybody was flipping their lids about it at the time. I can see where people are bored of that now, the COD games are almost completely scripted events.
nope, havent even played episode2 yet.
if you're all so excited, you could preobably try to lure gabe with some food
[ame="
Don't take control away from the player! Everything must be dynamic! If I wanted to see good storytelling or meaningful writing I would read a wikipedia article about a book!
Of course it's not a cutscene! This is why classic western games like half life are vastly superior to games like final fantasy or metal gear solid. These are grownup stories about men hopping around rooms!
Probably thee greatest demo showcase i've ever seen in gaming history to this very day!
Lol, who knows.
He says "Fr33man! Tell your friends!"