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Windows 8

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Fuiosg
polycounter lvl 5
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Fuiosg polycounter lvl 5
Is anyone using this? I was going to download it but watched some youtube videos first and that changed my mind. They seem to want to coerce users into the metro/tablet interface, which seems like an atrocious idea to me. I understand tablets are gaining ground but I can't stand that swiping crap and all the other simplifications that come with it. If they don't figure this out real quick it will probably bomb, and some sites are already saying the final build is only 3 weeks away.

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  • SanderDL
  • dfacto
    Other than the tablet interface (which doesn't matter on a desktop) are there any good reasons to switch from 7 to 8?
  • Mark Dygert
    Win8 seems like they took the worst ideas of the tablet interfaces forced them to mate with the Kinect interface and dumped whatever came out on top of Win7. You can still get to Win7 but it sits behind a giant pile of crap that is more annoying than useful. Not even on a tablet would I want Win8 and I want it even less on my desktop...

    I have 7 at home and I like it. There are things that Win7 still doesn't do, like properly handle the taskbar on a 2nd monitor properly, Win8 doesn't either, seriously guys? Maybe Win9...

    This is Win8.
    mov_rev.jpgMommie?
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    I really can't see myself getting win8 at all. It's awful. The uni installed the dev version on a few test rigs and we literally had to scrub the drives to get rid of it.

    Also on that note mark, why haven't they got native support for multi-mon task-bars? There were literally hundreds of software options for getting it, why did'nt they bother implementing it on win 7 or even vista?
  • Gestalt
    I wanted a clean install on my lappy so I decided to get the Win8 Release Preview. Horrible idea, and it's not even just people bitching about change, it's objectively a much less streamlined and manageable experience (and... sucks).

    You know the joys of the windows media center (the one that would open up the big blue screen that'd load up and take up the whole screen and wasn't just a normal window)? Well they decided to go that route with just about everything. Want to view an image? The screen becomes consumed by an image viewing app. Want to go to the start menu? The start menu is its own screen of giant icons (all but useless icons at that), and to get to it (since there is no start button) you have to hover in the corner or press the windows key.

    Oh and to get the the control panel or the quick search that used to be in the start menu, you now hover over the top right corner and wait for a sidebar to appear, and if you are searching, well, that's its own screen too!(and yes, this sidebar is accessed right over where the 'x' to exit an application would be, and yes, I've accidentally exited applications multiple times).

    Now that you've opened multiple 'apps', merely 'exiting' does not exit the application; at some point you'll move your mouse to the left side of the screen and notice a large list of crap hover into view. That is all running in the background and you are given no clue to it until the icons hover into view.

    Windows does not forget this time around. Unless you are super cautious when installing you will be encouraged to link all of your information to an account, your browser history, configuration, who knows what else. And here is a Windows 8 motif of having an annoying 'clingy' quality, like beyond the fact that apps don't close when you exit them. Want to add some pictures, maybe take some with the webcam? Instant slideshow of all pictures right on the start screen where the photo app is! Didn't want a slideshow of all your nude references smoothly transitioning for all friends and family to see? Well feel free to delete all the pictures you want because that slideshow is there to stay!(although it seems they have disappeared but I really can't be sure anymore... not that this happened to me because it didn't...)
  • MikeF
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    MikeF polycounter lvl 16
    wow, sounds like they took all the annoying crap that mobile devices suffer from and brought it to the desktop market, i'l pass.
  • arrangemonk
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    arrangemonk polycounter lvl 12
    @sander
    your calculation doesnt work, because its missing windows 2000 and windows98 se

    and windows 98 was clearly bad (se was good)
  • SanderDL
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    SanderDL polycounter lvl 7
    heh, the image isn't mine. I just found it funny. I do think Windows version are bad on/off sort of.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11

    This is Win8.
    mov_rev.jpgMommie?

    Fucking lol! :D
  • Kwramm
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    dfacto wrote: »
    Other than the tablet interface (which doesn't matter on a desktop) are there any good reasons to switch from 7 to 8?
    No. But there are reasons not to switch. Like tablet interface..

    And I honestly would not get to used to MetroUI. My 8th sight telling me that idea will scrapped in Windows 9.

    Edit:
    Just to point out why. MetroUI and WinRT GUI elements, are simply not made for desktops. In they current form they will never be adapted by general public and professionals.
    Full screen single app might be a good idea for smartphone, not for my 24'' monitor.. I like to have few windows opened close to each other, so I can quickly switch between them, I can read docs in other window, preview render or code.
    In Windows 8 ? I can see only one thing at the time, and If I want to checke something else I have to Alt-Tab. VERY FUNNY when you have opened 20+ windows..
    Edit2:
    Picture also missing Windows 2000, which was considered as one of the best. That was until it was mixed with desktop windows and WinXP came out. Which you should remember was terrible at release, and cloud not compare to Win2000.
  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    Windows 8 is actually alot better with startup times and apparent memory management. Their storage spaces feature is pretty cool, think better integrated software RAID. Sadly Metro is forced upon everyone.

    In the developer preview there was a way to change some registry entries which would have you boot straight into the desktop, but they have since got rid of that option.

    Microsoft makes alot of money on businesses that use windows, and I can't help but think forced metro will make them skip Windows 8.
  • Overlord
    Perhaps this is the year of the Linux desktop? 2937254162.png
  • ZacD
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    ZacD polycounter
    If all my software and games run on Linux I'd switch, but they don't :P
  • aivanov
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    aivanov polycounter lvl 5
    Most businesses (Microsoft's bread and butter) are usually a version behind anyways; XP is still king. So the corporate clients aren't going to buy, (they haven't bought Vista/7 yet). So I can't see how they're going to push a tablet-centric interface onto the business world 7 years down the line. They simply won't.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD polycounter
    Windows 7 builds are being tested out at a lot of companies, I'm sure it will be common or the norm in 2-3 years.
  • Talbot
    I hate it when people jump onto saying something sucks when they haven't used it.

    I know I haven't used it, but a lot of the reviews I've been seeing are that people are shocked at how much they like it after getting used to it.

    http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/17/windows-8-youll-absolutely-hate-it-at-first-but-give-it-a-chance-anyway/

    Like honestly people, stop acting like a bunch of 5 years olds that got a new food put in front of them. Microsoft has the challenging task of predicting the future. Literally. They have to start making something 5 years before it comes out and it needs to look like it came from the future.

    I could be wrong, but shit on it after a month of using it.
  • Fuiosg
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    Fuiosg polycounter lvl 5
    Talbot wrote: »
    I hate it when people jump onto saying something sucks when they haven't used it.

    I know I haven't used it, but a lot of the reviews I've been seeing are that people are shocked at how much they like it after getting used to it.

    http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/17/windows-8-youll-absolutely-hate-it-at-first-but-give-it-a-chance-anyway/

    Like honestly people, stop acting like a bunch of 5 years olds that got a new food put in front of them. Microsoft has the challenging task of predicting the future. Literally. They have to start making something 5 years before it comes out and it needs to look like it came from the future.

    I could be wrong, but shit on it after a month of using it.

    I get what you're saying, but this is what MS always does. People almost unanimously want a streamlined windows 7 with some better interaction on devices like tablets, but Microsoft "the business" wants to use it as a way of pushing their tablet/phone market while dumbing it down for professionals and everyone else. Example, signing in with your live account to use the computer? What the hell is that?

    And they can do what they want because it's virtual a monopoly, so the good bad release thing makes sense because MS pushes their stupid agenda one release, then gets a huge backlash about it the next.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 13
    Fuiosg wrote: »
    I get what you're saying, but this is what MS always does. People almost unanimously want a streamlined windows 7 with some better interaction on devices like tablets, but Microsoft "the business" wants to use it as a way of pushing their tablet/phone market while dumbing it down for professionals and everyone else. Example, signing in with your live account to use the computer? What the hell is that?

    And they can do what they want because it's virtual a monopoly, so the good bad release thing makes sense because MS pushes their stupid agenda one release, then gets a huge backlash about it the next.

    Sorry, but there needs to be a solid tablet ready OS for this generation. I don't know if you've ever tried to use windows 7 on a tablet without a full mouse and keyboard, but I have and it sucked. Now, you might say, then make your own OS just for tablets, but then I'm sure there'd be software issues.
  • Mark Dygert
    Talbot wrote: »
    I hate it when people jump onto saying something sucks when they haven't used it.

    I know I haven't used it, but a lot of the reviews I've been seeing are that people are shocked at how much they like it after getting used to it.

    http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/17/windows-8-youll-absolutely-hate-it-at-first-but-give-it-a-chance-anyway/

    Like honestly people, stop acting like a bunch of 5 years olds that got a new food put in front of them. Microsoft has the challenging task of predicting the future. Literally. They have to start making something 5 years before it comes out and it needs to look like it came from the future.

    I could be wrong, but shit on it after a month of using it.
    That article makes some good points...
    If it annoys pundits who are paid to test apps ever day and who generally embrace change, mainstream users will probably hate it even more and IT departments will do well to just skip this release for now (most of them are still in the process of moving to Windows 7 right now anyway, so most will likely skip this upgrade cycle anyway).
    That really doesn't bolster the "stop crying and start trying" speech you gave heh.

    I've tried it, for a few days and it was annoying. It actually made me want to use my computer, less.

    The only way Win8 would be acceptable is if I had never used a computer before and Win8 was the only OS I was ever exposed to, even then walking past anyone else running any other OS would quickly ruin the experience.
    "Retrain your brain, its not that hard!"
    Why?
    Why can't it be natural and easy to use?
    Why does anyone have to wrestle with it until they get tired and give up?
    Why is the argument for Win8, "just keep holding the cold thing until it feels warm".

    It might work as a tablet interface but comparing it to other tablets that are out already it doesn't seem to offer much that would win people over to something different. They just do the same stuff, differently and not really in a better way.

    "Hey use us... We adequately copy the features in current products... and frustrate your experience in other new and different ways... yeah..."
  • Mister Sentient
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    Mister Sentient polycounter lvl 14
    Fuiosg wrote: »
    I get what you're saying, but this is what MS always does. People almost unanimously want a streamlined windows 7 with some better interaction on devices like tablets, but Microsoft "the business" wants to use it as a way of pushing their tablet/phone market while dumbing it down for professionals and everyone else. Example, signing in with your live account to use the computer? What the hell is that?

    And they can do what they want because it's virtual a monopoly, so the good bad release thing makes sense because MS pushes their stupid agenda one release, then gets a huge backlash about it the next.

    That Live login thing sounds awful. I hope it's an optional thing otherwise I won't be upgrading any time soon. Don't get me started on Games for Windows Live.
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 16
    ZacD wrote: »
    If all my software and games run on Linux I'd switch, but they don't :P

    That hasn't stopped people from going mac, so linux should be equally viable ;)
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    eld wrote: »
    That hasn't stopped people from going mac, so linux should be equally viable ;)

    The reason for that is simply that OSX doesn't run on non-Apple hardware. If it did, I'd be using it right now.

    Linux is the other half of that. I have Ubuntu running on a computer at home and I love it. But... no pro apps for it. If it had enough of the pro apps I use, like zBrush, 3dsmax/Maya/Modo, Photoshop, etc, I'd use it in a heartbeat.

    Windows has so many users because it runs on a fuckton of hardware, and it has all the apps people need. If any of that were to change, if Apple would decide to sell OSX for non-Apple hardware, or if we saw more pro apps for Linux, I don't know how Windows will even survive.

    Hell, give it a few years (decades?) until Gimp and Blender catch up to their pro counterparts, and I can see myself switching to that.
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 16
    Lots of misinformation here.

    1. It does have a second taskbar with dual monitors.
    2. It has been more optimized than 7. It's a bit more peppy on my test system.
    3. The sign in is ONLY if you use windows live features like app store or calendar. You can use and install system without!
    4. You can still use windows picture viewer in normal mode. It does not have to act like full screen app.
    5. Full screen start menu only displays on first monitor. You still see desktop on second and can move mouse across to.
    6. Taskbar has explorer pinned by default so you can get to most libraries or files quickly enough without using start. (I know 7 had as well).

    Bads
    1.Can't turn off metro in preview release. Final version??
    2. Turning off is pita. Have to mouseover right corner of start screen and then go straight up to settings. Then to power..
    3. Full screen apps do leave you wondering if you actually turned them off.
    4. Lots of default libraries are not installed by default including older .nets or c++ 2008. Took me forever to figure out why Max was failing to install at first. Maybe final version addresses?

    Thoughts:
    1. The peppy boost probably isn't enough for people to overlook Metro, and ram is cheap. But optimization people like me will appreciate.
    2. Having the ability to run on arm processors is going to open up competition beyond amd/Intel. Though x86 software will fail until converted.
    3. Dual monitors make metro manageable.
    4. Metro will shine on tablets. Not desktops. Again, if Ms can get this through their head before release and offer option to disable or make a mini me option that isn't full screen.
    5. If wacom can get their drivers working nicely with 8, Intuos 5 will rule on it with its multitouch. Might even make Metro beneficial.
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    m4dcow wrote: »
    Windows 8 is actually alot better with startup times

    What's the big deal with startup time anyway? I start my computer just 1 time a day anyway.
    Even better, user Hibernate. You come back to work and all your work is just the way you left it. Why care for startup time really?

    Otherwise there's a few neat things in Win 8 but nothing really that impressive. People use Win XP to created 3D. Should be possible to use Win 7 for a while. And if MS can ditch Aero within 2 version the same might happen to Metro - especially since it got quite bad scores from usability studies (gotta click a lot more on the desktop than in Win 7).
    Same with OS X - there's still a lot of Snow Leopard users and stuff still works for them. Nobody forces anyone to upgrade - at least not in the immediate future. Sit back, relax, get some popcorn and watch people struggle with the new OS.

    P.S. has anyone ever seen someone using a Windows tablet in the wild? I've seen people with androids and iPads, but a Windows tablet? (not that I think win 8 will help with market penetration...)
  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    Kwramm wrote: »
    What's the big deal with startup time anyway? I start my computer just 1 time a day anyway.

    No big deal, but it was just an example of something that has been improved upon in Windows 8 since prior to my post everyone was like "Fuck Windows 8 there is nothing good about it etc..."
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    good MS has their priorities straight I guess :/
  • ikken
    fyi wacom users, the annoying pen "improvements" of windows 8 can not currently be disabled, see here
    http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9594
    apparently registry changes that helped win 7 are currently not available for win 8
    might change in the final build however.
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    eld wrote: »
    That hasn't stopped people from going mac, so linux should be equally viable ;)

    Mac have more useful software.
    I would go for linux if that have apps I use. I love this system but it always same. People not using system because there is not software, and there is no software because people not using system... (and that also a reason why MS is stucked within Windows, they can't simply break compatibility. Yet.)
  • Ben Apuna
  • Lazerus Reborn
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    Lazerus Reborn polycounter lvl 8
    Ben Apuna wrote: »

    I read that as "We've made utter shit so we'll knock the price right down and hopefully idiot's will buy it"

    Actually it's more like herding really ;')
  • Ben Apuna
    @Lazerus Reborn:

    So true, lol!

    Sadly, I think I must buy it. I'm probably going to need to support Win8 at some point :(
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 16
    Unless you have a touch screen, I really don't see the need for Win8, nor can I see it becoming something you'd have to buy.

    I REALLY dislike it. I love that they are pricing the upgrade cheaper, but there are only a handful of things I like about Win8, and they are not enough to overcome the horribly unintuitive interface. I honestly don't get why they couldn't offer an intermediate version of the desktop, where it still functioned as it basically has since Win95, and also have the Metro interface. I hate the metro interface with a mouse/keyboard.
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    Is the metro interface something you are required to use, or can you adjust settings to run it as a more current desktop?
  • Mark Dygert
    Making it easier to catch could actually be an issue. The last thing I want to do is get drunk and wake with Metro and then spend a day at the free clinic trying to get rid of it...
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 13
    It's cool of Microsoft that they want to save us some money. I will follow their lead and save some more by simply sticking to Windows 7 for now.
  • Skillmister
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    Skillmister polycounter lvl 11
    Ben Apuna wrote: »

    I wonder if that will work for those of us who got win7 free for being students.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 16
    praetus wrote: »
    Is the metro interface something you are required to use, or can you adjust settings to run it as a more current desktop?

    They have a desktop that you can use, but it only LOOKS like the current desktop. The start button has no programs, and the task bar is bare too. I think Liefhacker had a story about a 3rd party app that gives you a Win7-like start menu, but honestly, why would I do that, if I can just use Win7?

    Like I said, there should have been a transition; a desktop with a metro option. Or, have it like it is, but that 'desktop' screen would still function as windows has for almost 2 decades.

    Don't get me wrong though, I think Metro would be great... on a tablet/touchscreen. Since most people still use a keyboard/mouse, I don't know why so little was done to make those feel just as fluid.
  • monster
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 16
    notman wrote: »
    They have a desktop that you can use, but it only LOOKS like the current desktop. The start button has no programs, and the task bar is bare too.

    I'm not sure what your referencing, but the taskbar is still there and functions/looks the same as windows 7.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 16
    It was there, but I could swear I was unable to pin something to it. I could have remembered wrong (or too early of a version). TBH, the lack of a start menu (or a decent replacement) is my biggest issue.
  • joebount
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    joebount polycounter lvl 9
    For all the people who talk before using, I would suggest them to try a Samsung slate with 8, and god yes, it makes sens (better than an ipad on lots of things).
    For a desktop computer, I'm waiting to see (their special offer upgrades end in January, so plenty of time to decide).
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 16
    Again, I think it'll be good on tablets. I've tried it for a desktop, and I think it's terrible.
  • baalnazzar
    How such piece of crap can be useful? It doesn't even look nice. Do this interface have to look like that? What with nice wallpapers and desktop without any icons? I just love to have my screen nice and clean.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 16
    That was the other thing, in the consumer preview, you couldn't change your background (on metro). I hope that changes on the final product.

    You CAN remove the Metro Icons, but I'm not sure if it allows you to remove all (since I didn't try). I don't see why it wouldn't allow you to though.
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    notman wrote: »
    Again, I think it'll be good on tablets. I've tried it for a desktop, and I think it's terrible.

    pretty much what most people say. They did a usability studio and all the UI stuff that works great for tables just makes you click a lot more on the desktop version.
  • Ben Apuna
    Is anyone developing regular monitors with touch capabilities? Or are they already available? I don't really pay attention to the hardware scene unless I need something. I'd love a 22-23 inch Dell UltraSharp with multi touch.

    EDIT:

    Whoa!

    http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=au&l=en&s=bsd&cs=aubsd1&sku=230-11756
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 13
    Yeah there are already bunches of touch screen monitors out there, in different quality variants. There are also some companies making all-in-ones (think regular iMac) with such screens - I think HP makes a few types. But yes you can buy touchscreen monitors in all sorts and sizes. From 7 inch USB attachments to 20+ ones that are good enough for regular work.

    Whatever you do, stay away from the ones that use Infrared lighting in the bezel to detect fingers. They sucky.
  • Ben Apuna
    Thanks for mentioning the Infrared lighting issue Snader, good to know.
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 16
    A multitouch monitor would seem to have limited use for us. You would have to reach across the desk to interact with it. While having clean fingers. The mac touchpad would be a better option.
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