Learning Japanese for playing games
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Hey guys,
I know there are some Japanese speakers here, and some Japanese residents too so this thread is kinda directed at you guys.
I'm currently learning Japanese, for what may or may not be a silly purpose given the time and dedication needed to properly learn Japanese. That said, I generally enjoy learning stuff so I'm finding the experience pretty fun regardless.
I've found myself wanting to import more and more games from Japan that are unlikely to see English language releases, most recently the Monster Hunter 3rd versions for PS3 and PSP. I received them last week and I would just love to be able to play them and understand what is being said. I know for MH it doesn't matter all that much, but there are a lot of more story driven games which I wouldn't have a chance at following given my current level of knowledge.
So, I've been studying it daily for a little while now, not 'binge studying', just a little bit a day and I'm doing ok. I've got Hiragana/Katakana down just fine, and know a little bit of dialogue using just those syllabaries. In fact, even at this stage when I fired up Monster Hunter I could make out a few of the English style words written in Katakana.
What I'm stuck on though, is Kanji. Not where to find resources, because there's a bunch of them all over the net and some awesome iPhone apps, but more 'how' to learn it. So this is what I wanted to get advice on from you Japanese speakers. How would you suggest learning Kanji? Starting out with the 'simpler' ones in terms of stroke count, or starting with the ones I'm more likely to encounter on a daily basis.
Also, pronounciations... how do you know when to use 音読み and how do you know when to use 訓読み?
I know there are some Japanese speakers here, and some Japanese residents too so this thread is kinda directed at you guys.
I'm currently learning Japanese, for what may or may not be a silly purpose given the time and dedication needed to properly learn Japanese. That said, I generally enjoy learning stuff so I'm finding the experience pretty fun regardless.
I've found myself wanting to import more and more games from Japan that are unlikely to see English language releases, most recently the Monster Hunter 3rd versions for PS3 and PSP. I received them last week and I would just love to be able to play them and understand what is being said. I know for MH it doesn't matter all that much, but there are a lot of more story driven games which I wouldn't have a chance at following given my current level of knowledge.
So, I've been studying it daily for a little while now, not 'binge studying', just a little bit a day and I'm doing ok. I've got Hiragana/Katakana down just fine, and know a little bit of dialogue using just those syllabaries. In fact, even at this stage when I fired up Monster Hunter I could make out a few of the English style words written in Katakana.
What I'm stuck on though, is Kanji. Not where to find resources, because there's a bunch of them all over the net and some awesome iPhone apps, but more 'how' to learn it. So this is what I wanted to get advice on from you Japanese speakers. How would you suggest learning Kanji? Starting out with the 'simpler' ones in terms of stroke count, or starting with the ones I'm more likely to encounter on a daily basis.
Also, pronounciations... how do you know when to use 音読み and how do you know when to use 訓読み?
Replies
http://lrnj.com/
I took Japanese for one semester and as far as I remember, this game was helpful for written stuff. You fight monsters which ask you Romanji's of Katakana, Hiragana and Kanji letters.
My eyes, they burn!! ;P
I'll give it a shot though.
Also http://www.japanesepod101.com/
This is good advice. One of the simplest example is the tree and forest Kanji's probably:
tree:
forest:
It's good advice for some of the kanji, but you can't build a 100% logical system from it. Well you can, but it won't exactly be logical logical, just a messed up logical based on stories you made up
And that's not a bad way of learning it, that's what the Heisig method teaches.
A common type of example would be something like "frame";
枠
It consists of a 木 (tree) to the left,
and a 九 (nine)
above a 十 (ten) to the right
One can easily imagine how a tree can be associated with wood, and wood is a common material used to make a frame. The 9 above the 10 can be used to signify "90", and a typical wooden frame is made up of 4* 90 degree corners.
That's the basic amount of complexity you should expect to encounter with this Heisig method.
Later on you run into things like:
詳 (detailed)
Which consists of "言 (say)" and "羊 (sheep)"
It forces you to start making up crazy stories involving sheep talking in detail, or talking about sheep in detail or whatever your mind can come up with.
The crazier your story, the easier it will be for you to remember.
It's definitely a fun exercise to come up with different stories for every Kanji, but it does take a long while!
Note: I chose rather easy Kanji for both examples... when you see things like 澱 (sediment), things get really messy! I studied the first 300 kanji using Heisigs method before I gave up learning that way
I ended up learning Kanji based on their usage in sentences. Or at least, attempting to. I still use some of the techniques I learnt from Heisig's method in identifying Kanji, I'm just not following it exactly in that order and I'm trying to learn the pronunciation, meaning, context of use and the reading all at the same time (which goes against the core of what Heisig's method is all about; to learn the meaning of kanji separately from it's pronunciation or usage)
Anyway, whatever you decide to do, you just gotta keep at it. Just like art or indeed, most skills in life
I'd read about that method of learning the radicals first and then looking for them in Kanji. The problem I found though is as Yozora said, some of them are just too abstract to make any kind of connection.
So assuming I do just go for the 'learn everything on each Kanji' method, what order should I learn them in? Should I just go with the JLPT order or start with ones I see more often in magazines/manga/games etc?
猿＝さる・SARU
海猿＝うみざる・UMIZARU
Just learn how to find them so you can play your ｇame. If the app has a bookmark feature, then bookmark them for study later.
Basics like: Left, right, up, down, over, under, around, North, West, fire, water, sword, give, take, return, stuff like that will get you far. You won't get the story, but you will be able to play. Translate key words (in different colors) and menu items. Then build on that. Good luck.
With that said, i shall ask again, will any one of these websites take that approach?
Lamont - That's an interesting point, I'll look out for that.
I'm using an app called 'Japanese' to learn Kanji. It has the whole 12000 or so, but it includes the 'daily use' category of 2000 which I'm going through slowly (about 5-10 a day). One thing I can't figure out though, is what it means in the kun-yomi reading where the hiragana is greyed out...why is it greyed?
Also, how would you know when to use which reading, or does that change depending on the context or compound?
i think it makes a lot more sense to learn kanji by grade. most games only have joyo kanji up to grade 3 or 6, depending on the target audience.
Do you mean grade as in 'school grade', or grade as in JLPT? The app I'm using organises lists for both school level and JLPT.
£6.99, it's here: http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/japanese/id290664053?mt=8
I use that for Kanji, and I used this to learn Hiragana/Katakana.
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/japanese-phrases-lessons/id303488128?mt=8
Which is also £6.99.
I also just picked up the Mirai App:
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/istart-japanese-mirai-japanese/id337246927?mt=8
Which is awesome for vocab, but I wouldn't use it to learn the written side of things.
Not the cheapest apps by far but they've been amazing. My method for the Hiragana/Katakana was just learn like 2 rows a day along with a few words they make up, and then do the quizzes in that second app I linked until I had it fully memorised. It also helps to cover the multiple choices and try and remember the words without the 'clues' of which it might be.
Also I enjoy the Tofugu site, plenty of tips on there. I believe they have a subscription based learning guide too but I haven't checked that out yet.
My two biggest tips so far though are firstly, mnemonics pretty much work better than any other memorising technique (for me at least), and secondly, try to abandon romaji as quick as possible, turn it off in all the apps if you can... it makes the Kana recognition come quicker.
Apologies if you're already way past all this, I just thought I'd share my tips as a complete beginner.
been out of Japan for about 2 years (excluding a trip or two), so my kanji skillz have been dropping like shit. but still, I've been able to keep up with Monster Hunter 3 and what not for psp..sure, I don't understand the story behind why this cute monster has to die (I might if they TOLD me!), but I know that it's a monster and not a mushroom :P
meh.. if you wanna put all your talent points into kanji, don't forget to put at least a few into speaking and listening! ;D we don't know when these games will go all-audio! ;D
I'm actually looking for a native tutor near to me to learn speaking, I know some exist since I've seen them in coffee shops chatting away to their student but I haven't really done much searching around. It's difficult finding a true native speaker rather than some university student who makes a quick buck teaching his/her version of what they have learned at uni.
@XenoKratios - This is a start for grade level. Word on the street is there's 5 JLPT levels, so that part is a little dated.
http://kanjicards.org/kanji-lists.html
http://phobos.spaceports.com/~kigokoro/kanji.htm
School books show the kanji, a cute picture, then show the stroke order, then a few spaces for writing it (a few spaces with a 2x2 box for each kanji). Then later in the book they have a sentence with furigana next to blank space for them to write the kanji.
Then when you get to later grades, it's just the kanji, stroke order and repetition.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.Obenkyo&hl=en
Learning the kana is the easy bit, but yes definitely try to do that as soon as possible and stop using romaji
The best way to advance in Japanese is to learn Japanese grammar, forget about Kanji for now. Grammar is what is going to let you piece together phrases, regardless of how many kanji you can remember.
Like anything, the best way to learn is through repetition. And just so you know; most Japanese people don't get those monster hunter games so good luck... Otaku here spew highly specific slang that is by and large undocumented. Ever thought about playing though Secret of Mana or Chrono Trigger in Japanese? It might be a little easier on the brain.
The best advice I can give is don't be afraid of starting right at the start.
Here's the book I used to learn Japanese grammar: (no romaji... which is a good thing)
http://www.thejapanshop.com/Understanding-Basic-Japanese-Grammar/dp/B003V5A4U2
Anything like this will be a massive help.
Yeah I think I'm gonna try a few different games, certainly to start with. Apparently there's a Professor Layton version that shows the furigana with the kanji which might be helpful.
I'll get into the grammar more too. I'm starting to get an understanding of it, it's just very weird seeing the same sentences used for different situations (unless I misunderstood) for example:
Tomorrow I will listen to the radio:
あしたラジオをききます
Sometimes he listens to the radio
てきできラジオをききます
Will she listen to the radio this evening?
こんばんラジオをききますか
Also in the Japanese app you can check conjugations by searching for the formal verb (kiku)
but ye, of course.. never questioned his priorities, just said that It'd be a good idea to keep speaking in mind
what the...
my eyes just exploded
Does anyone know any good Japanese learning podcasts? I'm currently at the stage when I'm learning how to write and read hiragana and katakana, so I'm trying to get a strong vocabulary and perhaps get a better understanding of the grammar. Learning both writing systems and kanji (oh god, that makes me shit my pants) will probably take me a while, so I figured out I could listen to audio lessons while I tinker with 3D.
I found this podcast series, which seems pretty decent when it comes to the basics: http://learnjapanesepod.com/all-podcasts/
One thing that bothers me, is that they seem to focus mostly on full phrases (though I haven't heard their later podcasts yet) rather than the grammar structure.
Also, Hawken, kudos for linking to that book. I will check it out
kinda cool, some fluent american guy and his japanese friend(s) teaching different topics over 30 or so minutes of video..
You boob. Enjoy!
Andreas: I'm a moron :poly136: I completely missed that one haha
for example, when watching one of my favourite animes, Kyou kara Maou! with acclaimed artist and caracter designer, Mokotashi-Chan, (his drawings bring the characters a bubbly warmth thats unrivaled.) we see that the warm and sometimes clumbsy effigies of the young girls will eventually win over anyone`s cold hearts. they may have clueless demeanors, but through there unflinching adoration of our male protagonist (Kokoshi-Chan), they win his heart. which is more than i can say, for her stuck up counterpart, Lei Mei-San, who is cruel and cold to our protagonist at every turn in this riveting tale of love triangles.
im certain many of you, like me, are vying for a valuable spot on segas sonic team, assisting in, creating another sonic game where we can continue the story between sonic and his friends, and the many tribulations and jealousies that lie between them. (why hasnt sega continued from next-gen sonics first outing, where in the ending, he kissed a human girl? i want to see the plotline resolute.) im confident the casual talk ive picked up from anime will help me ascertain this role.
PS. does sega hire westerners?
-fenstermayhew out
even I had two interviews at a game company in japan, the only reason (I'd say) I didn't get the job was because I came to both the interviews dressed in a vest and dragon pants and later a full white outfit, white shirt and white "wind god" pants..
note to self: next time, wear a suit to the interview, as is standard in japania :poly142: