OP: don't do it, your portfolio is probably too light as it is to warrant a second look. Spend the time adding another character(and kick it up a notch) and applying again at the same place.
*edit
Proper crit. You show good understanding of the process, maps are alright but your facial anatomy looks a bit oldschool poser. Spend some time cranking out head busts and don't look back.
-my dad has suggested a few times that to get my foot in the door at a studio, I should offer to intern for free for a few months, and then if I prove myself, hopefully get a job. And I was always very hesitant, cause I wasn't very sure of this approach.
~ We get a ton of those offers at our studio from kids. It literally scares the crap out of the HR whenever they hear it.
Don't ever do this. It makes you sound scarily desperate, and will destroy your chances of being taken seriously as an artist.
My younger brother, fresh out of school, went to Mythic's office during WAR's development. He didn't know about the kind of protocol that should be followed, but he got lucky and they interviewed him and looked at his work on the spot. Of course, they explained to him that it's probably not something he should do, and we both look back on it and laugh because we probably wouldn't try anything like that knowing what we know now. He got an intern position which turned into a full-time position a month or so later, if I remember correctly, so it worked out, but I'd say he was an exception to the rule.
The people who need to look at your work are usually busy and won't care to take time out of their day to interview someone unless it's gone through the proper channels. It's got to be worth their time, and the most convenient way to convince them of that is if your work gets screened and filtered through HR/recruiting.
~ It's Paid. Nobody should ever be working for free at a skill based job.
Ok thanks for clarifying.
I totally agree, internship for me always conjures images of coffee making and lunch buying. If a company isn't paying you to work, then they've no incentive to bother making good use of you.
1) If someone tried to show up in person where I work you wouldn't even make it in the front door without a keycard. So showing up at the studio would just be time wasted.
2) As someone said before, try LinkedIn and see if the HR person is on there and you can shoot them a message and introduce yourself. IF they respond they may let you know if they've reviewed your stuff and when/if you'll hear back, or even give you an idea of how actively they're trying to fill the position. In the past I've done this after applying through a company's website and found out they were collecting resumes because there will POTENTIALLY be a position open for a future project. The job you applied for may not even exist right now.
As someone outside the industry, it's interesting hearing that you have to go through this mating-ritual-esque display. What if, quality of work withstanding, someone truly is desperate? Whether being just laid off, no other place is hiring, or some other reason. You have to do this dance and pretend you're not desperate? Selling yourself short is understandable, but applying in person - that makes you unhireable? Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
I can understand it in the case of, like mentioned above, some overzealous cosplay fan with poor work came in. But everyone else?
As someone outside the industry, it's interesting hearing that you have to go through this mating-ritual-esque display. What if, quality of work withstanding, someone truly is desperate? Whether being just laid off, no other place is hiring, or some other reason. You have to do this dance and pretend you're not desperate? Selling yourself short is understandable, but applying in person - that makes you unhireable? Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
I can understand it in the case of, like mentioned above, some overzealous cosplay fan with poor work came in. But everyone else?
Forgive any naivete on my part.
So if someone is desperate should he get special treatment over all the other applicants?
There are tons of desperate people all the time looking to get hired, but they don't go to studios in full cosplay. You may call it a song-and-dance ritual, but it's more about being professional about it and showing that you can show some composure, both of which are traits that studios tend to like
As someone outside the industry, it's interesting hearing that you have to go through this mating-ritual-esque display. What if, quality of work withstanding, someone truly is desperate? Whether being just laid off, no other place is hiring, or some other reason. You have to do this dance and pretend you're not desperate? Selling yourself short is understandable, but applying in person - that makes you unhireable? Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
I can understand it in the case of, like mentioned above, some overzealous cosplay fan with poor work came in. But everyone else?
Forgive any naivete on my part.
Showing up in person is basically interrupting someone and demanding attention - it's rude. I don't get why everyone is butt hurt about this - you're honestly rebelling against being able to quickly apply online via the internet?
I thought I mentioned it but at one studio a dude showed up, knocked at the front door because you can't get in without a keycard until official business hours; we had to interrupt the hiring manager during a phone call so he could deal with the guy. He basically told him we don't accept applications in person and he should go home and apply online.
2 things, the guy looked crushed, I guess he expected to be hired on the spot and secondly he has to go home and email the guy who is already slightly miffed at having his really busy schedule interrupted.
Desperation is bad - studios see it as "this guy doesn't really want to work here but he's got no other options"
Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
Idd. I mean, I can just picture everyone dropping their Wacom styli and jaws dropping... 'Look... a human being.... and...and...he doesn't work in the industry' *gasps all around* "QUICK, LOCK THE DOORS, BARRICADE THE PERIMETER, WE GOT OURSELVES AN INTRUDER'.
I really have to side with this query. There certainly seems to be this superiority complex and stigma of elitism within the games industry. I've noticed it before in some threads but this one has really brought out some interesting points.
I mean, get over yourselves guys... it's really just a skilled job, like any other skilled job. Pushing polys doesn't make you extra-special, regardless of what the guy on the next desk tells you.
Quite ironic, given the number of people who get kicked to the curb each month.
I agree with composure and professionalism alex, I don't advocate cosplay application - but in my imaginary world, i'd like to think companies tend to place quality of work and meshing with the rest of the team above all else (and in an industry apparently staffed with a very eclectic mix of people, cosplay doesn't seem that out of the ordinary).
As for special treatment? Doesn't that happen? Someone gets the job because they know someone, not necessarily for merit or having gone through 'proper' channels? So being desperate shouldn't exclude you from the screening process, sure. But to be put on an imaginary blacklist because you simply applied in person (let's say, with no cosplay involved)?
I really have to side with this query. There certainly seems to be this superiority complex and stigma of elitism within the games industry. I've noticed it before in some threads but this one has really brought out some interesting points.
Quite ironic, given the number of people who get kicked to the curb each month.
Sounds more like some people just have a need to justify their choices. The no walk-ins is something I've seen in every non public facing office job me or anyone I know has ever worked in.
The mean snobby game devs who actually fly you out, put you up in a hotel, pay for your moving expenses AND they don't expect you to wear a suit and tie to the interview. The only eltitism I see is coming from your end.
and no, nobody gets black listed for showing up - it's just, chances are you're probably an odd socially awkward guy - what would you want your first impression to be? A thoughtfully worded email and some bad ass art or a stammered "ummm, ahhh, I'd really like to work for you guys".
need to add that all the passive aggresive, snarky remarks are pissing me off - no we aren't scared of people and freak out if someone walks in - this is an industry where the people in charge of hiring are swamped with applications, so walking in is basically asking people to drop what they're doing and deal with you. Maybe if it was the other way around - more jobs than available work - sure studios would be happy for you to walk in but right now your just asking the guy with two phones up to either ear while he's composing emails to deal with you.
As someone outside the industry, it's interesting hearing that you have to go through this mating-ritual-esque display. What if, quality of work withstanding, someone truly is desperate? Whether being just laid off, no other place is hiring, or some other reason. You have to do this dance and pretend you're not desperate? Selling yourself short is understandable, but applying in person - that makes you unhireable? Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
I think showing up and shoving a resume in someone's face, whether it's a secretary at the front desk or an art director in the parking lot, is much more of a mating-ritual-esque display than simply applying online with a short, humble, friendly message and a link to your portfolio. It's not about being elitist or anti-social; people have a lot of responsibilities and no one wants to deal with random strangers off the street.
Think of this way: if you're in HR, it's healthy to assume everyone who applies for a job would like that position. People who show up uninvited outside the studio are showing the exact same desire but also saying, "I have the time and/or money to be here in person." Great, but who cares? What's more tenacious? Driving two states to hand-deliver a resume, or spending 40 extra hours working on a new portfolio piece that specifically follows that studio's style?
I recently interviewed at a studio; they didn't ask for an animation test, but I showed up with a small five-second shot based off stuff in their upcoming game. It wasn't a mind-blowing piece of animation but it said, "Hey, I know what you're doing here. I like where your game is headed and I can fit in making this kind of work." Regardless of whether you're applying blindly or showing up for an interview, I don't think desperation helps. Show them that you can be part of their team and make the work they need.
Bad idea. Most big companies will tell you once you get to the door that you should have applied online. For example, EA and Microsoft don't want applications delivered by hand. You will actually have a better chance of someone looking at your resume if you apply online as it will get into the database.
That being said, the best way to land a job at a video game company is still nepotism. Word of mouth, being friends with someone that works there and sometimes referrals will get you the job.
A brief history of how I got into the games industry for those interested. Applied in person multiple times for a QA position at EA. I should note I was told each time I applied that I don't need to keep dropping my resume off once a week it doesn't help. I got a call back 4 months later interviewed and got a job in QA. Worked in QA for two years and continually pestered development teams to let me work for free to show my skills, was able to volunteer a couple times being a human batch script among other non important tasks like scanning in images from magazines for an art director. Taught myself 3D studio at nights after working in QA and made a small portfolio of props and a character. Applied for a job as a junior environment artist on the internal job boards. Got the job at a significantly reduced salary as I didn't have an art degree. Worked at EA for 10 years and quit to join Microsoft 2.8 years ago. Got the job at Microsoft from nepotism, my friend had quit a couple months before to join Microsoft as a game director on a new IP and asked me if I wanted to join his team as an art director so I interviewed and got the job.
Although it worked for me I don't recommend going the QA route, if you have the financial means definitely go to 3D school and make sure you focus your portfolio on a specific discipline rather than trying to cover all the bases. Then spam every company and every person on polycount that works at a company you want to work at, but make sure to do it professionally and don't piss anyone off. Ultimately your portfolio will get you the job if there is an open position for a junior.
As someone outside the industry, it's interesting hearing that you have to go through this mating-ritual-esque display. What if, quality of work withstanding, someone truly is desperate? Whether being just laid off, no other place is hiring, or some other reason. You have to do this dance and pretend you're not desperate? Selling yourself short is understandable, but applying in person - that makes you unhireable? Does everyone in the industry have social anxiety complexes to the degree that someone willing to do something involving actual people is branded as 'that creep'?
I can understand it in the case of, like mentioned above, some overzealous cosplay fan with poor work came in. But everyone else?
Forgive any naivete on my part.
I've been thinking this through because I know how the system works, but I'm not sure why it works this way. Below is just my opinion.
First of all, I wouldn't call it a mating ritual. Every company has a process outlined on their job posting. Follow it. Secondly, if you are financially desperate you need to concentrate on applying at as many studios as possible and be willing to relocate, not spend your time driving to each one and applying in person. Also, being desperate is only a negative because that's the first impression you are leaving with your potential employer. It's best to appear confident and relaxed no matter what your situation. Besides if you start off desperate and you walk into a situation where you don't even know if someone will speak with you, you're just adding to your own stress. But if you really feel the need to show up, then call ahead so that at least one person is expecting you.
Someone used the term elitist, but that's not the case either. I've written dozens of recommendation letters, and introduced several of my students to other professionals. The main reason behind that was so that my students can start networking and hopefully get a foot in the door that way.
Anyway, here are the reasons I think walk ins are usually not welcome at most game studios:
Game studios are often working on unannounced projects. I know at Robot we have a couple of walls we cover up when we are expecting guests.
We have full schedules. At Robot we rarely have crunch time, but that means we're concentrating at the work at hand. Even lunch is usually a work related meeting.
Interviews are all day events. Most other industries you only interview with one or two people. At game companies you usually meet with the entire team or company. There's no way to walk in and get an interview.
The game industry isn't like the service or retail industry were receptionists are trained to handle walk ins, who are usually clients. In fact, at game companies we usually call them office managers and not receptionists.
Let's be honest, the game industry can attract some really weird people. Unless they are in full costume, you can't tell which camp they are in at first glance. Unfortunately, if you show up uninvited you automatically lean toward the weird side.
Finally, security. This either means you won't be able to get in, or if you do, you might scare the people inside. Sure you know you're harmless, but there is no way anyone else can know that.
I think some of my ideas can be explained better, but I think I got the point right.
[OT] Some advice on not becoming desperate.
As soon you have that first job, start saving money. 401K and a cash savings account. The last time I got laid off in 2003 I had 6 months of rent/bills saved up. While you are saving, start networking. Get to know your co-workers and go to industry meet ups. Networking can help you get your foot in the door in case anything happens. A company I worked at shut down just 8 months after I started.
Most importantly, keep growing as an artists. In the end it's your portfolio that does the talking. [/OT]
There certainly seems to be this superiority complex and stigma of elitism within the games industry.
I think this is a rather severe assumption. I have a friend who works at a large, successful studio who loves talking to potential new hires -- when he's not trying to meet deadlines. He recently gave a 2-hour lecture to university students, for FREE, and stayed an additional two hours to answer any and all questions. Does that sound like a developer with a superiority complex? But if you show up in his studio's parking lot and try to push a reel on him at lunch, he will be extremely annoyed with you.
And when this studio has interviews, he often doesn't find out until 10-15 minutes before. He has to stop what's he doing, lose productivity on his assigned art tasks, and spend a big chunk of his day speaking with a stranger. And that stranger has already been vetted by HR, supervisors, an animation test, and at least one phone interview. Now you expect him to be open and willing to dealing with completely anonymous people of unknown skill and experience who just show up at the studio?
Can we frame this another way? I find it incredibly selfish of people who think that they can just show up at a studio and demand attention that no other applicant receives.
it's just, chances are you're probably an odd socially awkward guy - what would you want your first impression to be? A thoughtfully worded email and some bad ass art or a stammered "ummm, ahhh, I'd really like to work for you guys".
Exactly my point... why does it have to be one way or the other?
What about the guy with a reasonably good folio who walks in, confidently (friendly confident, not asshole confident), finds the receptionist, and kindly says 'Hello, I'm here to drop this portfolio and job application in, would you mind passing it on to the relevant department?'.
I don't really see the point in applying for a spot somewhere while insisting your first impression send out a message that you don't want to do things "their" way.
Exactly my point... why does it have to be one way or the other?
What about the guy with a reasonably good folio who walks in, confidently (friendly confident, not asshole confident), finds the receptionist, and kindly says 'Hello, I'm here to drop this portfolio and job application in, would you mind passing it on to the relevant department?'.
"Hi, I know that there is an established method for application, but you see im special"
Unless you know someone in the place and you've organised a visit you're wasting a busy persons time. Imagine what message that sends about what your like to work with.
Don't just cherrypick from his post. That part wasn't the most important, this is:
this is an industry where the people in charge of hiring are swamped with applications, so walking in is basically asking people to drop what they're doing and deal with you.
There's obviously established routes to go. It's not giving you a heads up to go there in person, so why do it? I don't understand where all these arguments are coming from.
I know our HR is swamped with stuff right now and is basically booked the entire day. He needs to have a heads up and his life becomes 200% easier if people follow the recommended routines.
There certainly seems to be this superiority complex and stigma of elitism within the games industry. I've noticed it before in some threads but this one has really brought out some interesting points.
I mean, get over yourselves guys... it's really just a skilled job, like any other skilled job. Pushing polys doesn't make you extra-special, regardless of what the guy on the next desk tells you.
Quite ironic, given the number of people who get kicked to the curb each month.
/bows to the game art gods
Jesus dude really? Way to be childishly melodramatic and self-righteous.
What about the guy with a reasonably good folio who walks in, confidently (friendly confident, not asshole confident), finds the receptionist, and kindly says 'Hello, I'm here to drop this portfolio and job application in, would you mind passing it on to the relevant department?'.
The legacy behind the entire philosophy of showing up in person is that you are sending the message that you have the initiative to followup in person and have a genuine interest in the job. Both things that people often took as indicators of someone with a good work ethic... This harkens back to the days before there were actual systems in place for hiring people and internet based applications. As has been adequately covered in this thread in most cases ignoring the systems studios have in place to make their jobs easier tends to make people think you are being aggressive/pushy and entitled, which is assuming you can even get in the front door. Those might be useful traits in a political/corporate or sales position but are not incredibly relevant skills for artists.
There are no rules and there are always exceptions, if the studio is actually set up to receive walk-ins then your odds of sending the wrong signals go down, but one look through this thread will easily tell you that is usually not the case.
The question is this: With such minimal benefits and significant drawbacks, do you really want to gamble on that? If you have a good portfolio, I'd say no. Your best bet is to not fuck it up and do things the way the studio wants you to.
Jesus dude really? Way to be childishly melodramatic and self-righteous.
Yeah apologies I was a bit of a cunt with what I said.
I just think there can be responses and things said on this forum that smack of elitism, and some people in this thread have replied in much better ways than others.
Saying 'it's stupid to just disregard protocols when you should just follow the application process they have in place' is far better than saying something like 'We had this dude come in uninvited once....we still laugh about that creepy freak to this day'.
sometimes I get the urge to put out some free video tutorials but then threads like this make me think "why bother". Seems like people don't appreciate how much we bend over backwards to help people trying to break in to the industry.
Saying 'it's stupid to just disregard protocols when you should just follow the application process they have in place' is far better than saying something like 'We had this dude come in uninvited once....we still laugh about that creepy freak to this day'.
You're being overly sensitive and taking comments too personally. There's nothing wrong with saying it in either of those two ways.
This is polycount, not beat-around-the-bush-count.
Yeah apologies I was a bit of a cunt with what I said.
I just think there can be responses and things said on this forum that smack of elitism, and some people in this thread have replied in much better ways than others.
That's what you have to contend with though. Its might not be nice but it exists, and its worth knowing that you run a risk of reducing your chances by 'dropping in'
Sorry to break it to you TeeJay, but the games industry isn't all butterflies and rainbows bro.
I think that's what you mean.
Don't assume the rest of the world is the same.
Just because one 'survived the gauntlet of brutality and destruction' by getting an industry job, doesn't mean they need to constantly reaffirm how harsh an environment it can be... let people find that out from themselves.
It just comes across to me as people being all 'empowered' because they've made it through. Like people who've had tattoo's and say it hurt a lot just so they look macho.
I'm gonna drop out now because I've massively derailed the topic, my comments are verging on trolling... and I'm not really in any position to comment anyway.
Just because one 'survived the gauntlet of brutality and destruction' by getting an industry job, doesn't mean they need to constantly reaffirm how harsh an environment it can be... let people find that out from themselves.
It just comes across to me as people being all 'empowered' because they've made it through. Like people who've had tattoo's and say it hurt a lot just so they look macho.
More like, its people telling you how it is rather than sugar-coating it for you.
People are not saying that handing in CV's in person is a bad idea because they want you to have a harder time landing a job. They're telling you its a bad idea because its a bad fucking idea.
Pretty much all studios have a jobs/careers page on their website which lays down a pretty clear procedure for applying for a job. If you don't follow that, you're going to attract attention for all the wrong reasons. Having a blatant disregard for, or lack of appreciation for proper procedure is not a plus point to ANY employer - in any industry.
I'm crunching at the moment, and during this period of 60-70 hour weeks I've spent my entire saturday at an expo in London, critiquing art portfolios and giving people advice on how to break into the industry as an artist. Unpaid, on my own dime I might add.
There are a ton of other people on here who do as much or more - during their free time outside of work, posting critiques and tutorials, helping out other artists (many of which are students) and generally being fucking awesome. For a forum which is for the most part comprised of industry professionals .... polycount is about as far the opposite end of the scale from elitism as you can possibly get.
...ahhh Pros or nos..polycount has got it's share of toolbags, but I don't think I can ever remember a time when someone on this forum has ever turned anyone away when they asked for advice on their work..or work in the Games Industry..even after it's been answered a trillion times...
as for the OP..if you are dead set on it..call them..it would save you a trip
talk about elitism - I almost went to work at an architectural firm, why do I have to wear slacks & a tie if I'm going to be sitting in a dark room modeling houses? They kept talking about how people aren't paying for 3d visualizations any more but maybe business will pick up in 2008 - glad I dodged that bullet!
A list? There is no list. Why would you ask that? LOL, this guy... "A list!" Ha, never. Who told you? Not that there's anything to tell. Whoever told you might be on it. If there was an it. Which there isn't.
Seriously though... if somebody compeletly drops the ball it's hard to forget about it. It may cost your company money, or cost your team weeks of crunch time. It's hard to recommend them when asked. And declining to comment on somebody's previous performance is just as bad as a negative comment. And when you apply at a company everybody at that company is going to ask around.
I'm glad I've never worked with an artist that I wouldn't be happy working with again.
I'm wondering since we're talking about ruining your chances by visiting the studio to drop your portfolio. I mean showing up unannounced just to drop your portfolio seems somewhat trivial compared to let's say showing up dressed in a space marine outfit. It might be easy to forget.
I have heard of studios doing walk-ins, but these are planned events. Also, you can email and mention that you DO live in the area. Sometimes this can get you in quicker for a sit down (if the art is up to snuff).
Its just a generic email that goes to some company. And While on the hunt for work I sent out emails to companies like this MONNNNNNNNNNNNNTHS ago, hell I had one dating back almost a year and a half and I get a email back finally saying not inserted or the roll is filled etc.
I really wish there was more companies that had people you can talk to atleast in a non automated way. This industry is already retarded enough with trying to get work and how stream lined it is when filing for work on websites. But atleast some one talking to you makes you feel your not wasting your time either. Showing up is taboo but sometimes I think when a company dosent atleast respond back to you its like there ASKING for someone to come and do this.
(kitty resident evil ears and all) But For real I dont Agree with people who just show up as many people said, its time and money your wasting for people. But alot of the HR can atleast email you back and say "not hiring, not inserted, not skilled enough, whatever"
Also before any person on here says something along the lines of "if you have a god tier portfolio you wont have these problems" Click on this link in my regards to that smart ass of a answer.
In my studio's case it was also a part of the local culture. Hawaii may be a part of the US. but it's still very Asian in mentality. In many cases, it's not "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" instead it's "the nail that stands out gets pounded down".
So it would seem to my mind it's better to follow established protocols and procedures to get hired rather than making a bunch of noise and hoping that helps get you noticed in a good way.
It's not like all portfolios received by email went into a "do not hire bin". Rather it was the opposite as such portfolios were easy to keep track of and didn't take up any physical storage space (where things truly get lost). I helped to review all reels and portfolios that were ever received by my company. For those that demonstrated the right skills we brought those people in for interviews when we were looking to hire more people.
I also don't mean to say that we just disregarded and dumped walk in's portfolios in the garbage either. No one's portfolio was ever trashed and everyone's portfolio or reel got reviewed at some point. It just seamed to turn out that those that just showed up out of nowhere were also those that had the least relevant portfolios.
I'd say if you live close to a studio then let them know about it through email or by phone (if they take calls) it's a huge plus for getting an interview. Just don't show up out of the blue hoping for special attention, you'll be wasting someone's time. At least in our case we didn't have any dedicated receptionist(s) just sitting around, we had an office manager who was always busy with something.
As far as being "creeped out" by a stranger in the office. I think it's sort of like this: As you work at a place with the same people day in and day out with few visitors it sort of becomes like home (a comfortable and safe place to be). Then all of a sudden there's some stranger standing behind you watching you work... how does that feel? Kind of creepy, I think. We also had bunch of people (not related to our company) that had been scammed out of their employee retirement accounts show up at the office a few times looking for those responsible. At another location, some poor lady got sexually assaulted in the parking lot. I have a few more stories to tell of this kind, but I'm too lazy to write them all out, and I think you all get the point. I'm sure other people have some crazy stories to tell of office intruders as well like Illfonic UNDER ARREST!
So strangers entering your office unannounced definitely sends up some warning flags even though they might be and probably are harmless. It's hard to get past that first awkward impression so why risk it?
As you work at a place with the same people day in and day out with few visitors it sort of becomes like home (a comfortable and safe place to be). Then all of a sudden there's some stranger standing behind you watching you work... how does that feel?
I get that pretty much every day. One time it was the lead singer of Sigur Ros. That felt pretty damn good.
Sometimes one just needs to engage in a little braggadocio.
The creepiness business strikes me as a little silly. If a person pops in to hand in their resume they'll be in and out in a couple of minutes whether they get turned away immediately or not, unless the HR or art director decides to engage them in which case they're probably decent non-creepy folks anyway.
Strolling in without prior mention isn't the right way to go about things but realistically it shouldn't cause either party any distress. It's just some naive kid making a mistake and should be treated as such.
Well I can't really say something that hasn't already been said, but yeah I wouldn't recommend walking straight into the office where you want to work, it doesn't work that way. Most of the places I've been at has security as well, and you'll get stopped at the reception and even before that usually 1 or 2 security doors. And if you don't have an appointment you'll look pretty clueless in front of the receptionist. What are you gonna say? "Hi , I want to work here?" "I want to speak to a recruiter"?
Either way you'll come off kinda strange because most people has to go through prior application-processes to even get to the "office interview". I don't believe it's a good idea in the end.
I don't really agree with the whole elitism thing, I don't believe any of us here feels like they're "better" than others. Most of us are here to learn and share our experiences, making friends and networking. Having a good time doing it as well.
I respect my seniors, the ones on the same level and students. We are all on the same road, we all share similar interest and most of us are really kick-ass people. I know it's tricky to get in, but yeah I think that's a good thing, that's why we see students and unemployed showing off really awesome art because the crossbar is set that high. And then again the best thing you can do is networking, get to know people and make friends.
talk about elitism - I almost went to work at an architectural firm, why do I have to wear slacks & a tie if I'm going to be sitting in a dark room modeling houses? They kept talking about how people aren't paying for 3d visualizations any more but maybe business will pick up in 2008 - glad I dodged that bullet!
Heh, cheap shot... like it.
Architects have a reason to be elitist, they are required to do 5 years of Uni by law... since construction fortunately has a lot of legal regulations, and building design is a science as much as an art.
As for dodging a bullet, I don't know what you are geting at. I worked Arch-Viz for 4 years from '06 onwards and earned more than the majority of game artists I know, the beautiful thing was I got to get in at 9 and go home at 5:30 too... no crunch, no stress, no fear of being kicked after I finished a project.
Sure it was quiet during the worst parts of the recession but instead of just canning what the company thought were the low end employees, chief Architects and execs took salary cuts first, and people worked fewer days a week for a while.
The only reason I don't do it anymore is because I finished my Architecture degree. Otherwise, it's a decent 3D job which pays well (especially freelance), is stable, and hours that allow you to maintain a social life and family who don't feel neglected.
Architects have a reason to be elitist, they are required to do 5 years of Uni by law... since construction fortunately has a lot of legal regulations, and building design is a science as much as an art.
As for dodging a bullet, I don't know what you are geting at. I worked Arch-Viz for 4 years from '06 onwards and earned more than the majority of game artists I know, the beautiful thing was I got to get in at 9 and go home at 5:30 too... no crunch, no stress, no fear of being kicked after I finished a project.
Sure it was quiet during the worst parts of the recession but instead of just canning what the company thought were the low end employees, chief Architects and execs took salary cuts first, and people worked fewer days a week for a while.
The only reason I don't do it anymore is because I finished my Architecture degree. Otherwise, it's a decent 3D job which pays well (especially freelance), is stable, and hours that allow you to maintain a social life and family who don't feel neglected.
/derail
I don't think he aimed the comment at you, thus not a cheap shot.
While architecture has the ability to pay more than your average game dev job, ask around and I'm sure almost everyone here would rather take a lower paying game job than to have to wear slacks and tie to work every day.
No matter the pay, at this point in my life, I would never wear slacks and tie to work. I don't wear them to formal occasions so I sure as hell won't wear them to work.
No matter the pay, at this point in my life, I would never wear slacks and tie to work. I don't wear them to formal occasions so I sure as hell won't wear them to work.
That's kind of a generalisation though really. I know a lot of Architects who wear jeans, sneakers and a shirt, then just some casual blazer or something. Especially studios with younger guys. It's just because of tradition and stereotype I guess, the idea that when you go and meet 'Mr Smith' who's spending £750k on his latest development, he [presumably] doesn't want some bearded hipster in jeans doing the work... of course as people become more open minded about that sort of thing then I think the suited Architect may become a thing of the past.
In any case, I enjoy dressing smart for a few hours a day, looking sharp can be pretty uplifting sometimes. Besides, I get to come home/spend weekends throwing on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and I don't feel like I've been sat in the same clothes all the time.
Architects have a reason to be elitist, they are required to do 5 years of Uni by law... since construction fortunately has a lot of legal regulations, and building design is a science as much as an art.
Soo, 5 years of school allows people to be elitist? Did not know that. :poly124:
Or it's just a bunch of people who think they're rockstars, it all depends on what kind of personality you have. I prefer the humble type.
What you wear doesn't matter, it's all about having the right attitude towards others. It boils down to respect. Respect friends/co-workers, respect the hard work everybody puts in, it's a team effort, everybody contributes, have a good time. :thumbup::)
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Cheers!
*edit
Proper crit. You show good understanding of the process, maps are alright but your facial anatomy looks a bit oldschool poser. Spend some time cranking out head busts and don't look back.
Damn youngsters...
~ We get a ton of those offers at our studio from kids. It literally scares the crap out of the HR whenever they hear it.
Don't ever do this. It makes you sound scarily desperate, and will destroy your chances of being taken seriously as an artist.
My younger brother, fresh out of school, went to Mythic's office during WAR's development. He didn't know about the kind of protocol that should be followed, but he got lucky and they interviewed him and looked at his work on the spot. Of course, they explained to him that it's probably not something he should do, and we both look back on it and laugh because we probably wouldn't try anything like that knowing what we know now. He got an intern position which turned into a full-time position a month or so later, if I remember correctly, so it worked out, but I'd say he was an exception to the rule.
The people who need to look at your work are usually busy and won't care to take time out of their day to interview someone unless it's gone through the proper channels. It's got to be worth their time, and the most convenient way to convince them of that is if your work gets screened and filtered through HR/recruiting.
You work at Blitz Games Studios right? Don't they explicitly ask for unpaid interns?
http://www.blitzgamesstudios.com/careers/placement/
Or are they paid positions?
~ It's Paid. Nobody should ever be working for free at a skill based job.
Ok thanks for clarifying.
I totally agree, internship for me always conjures images of coffee making and lunch buying. If a company isn't paying you to work, then they've no incentive to bother making good use of you.
2) As someone said before, try LinkedIn and see if the HR person is on there and you can shoot them a message and introduce yourself. IF they respond they may let you know if they've reviewed your stuff and when/if you'll hear back, or even give you an idea of how actively they're trying to fill the position. In the past I've done this after applying through a company's website and found out they were collecting resumes because there will POTENTIALLY be a position open for a future project. The job you applied for may not even exist right now.
At Terminal we had a guy show up in Resident Evil cosplay with kitty ears... he didn't get the interview.
I can understand it in the case of, like mentioned above, some overzealous cosplay fan with poor work came in. But everyone else?
Forgive any naivete on my part.
So if someone is desperate should he get special treatment over all the other applicants?
There are tons of desperate people all the time looking to get hired, but they don't go to studios in full cosplay. You may call it a song-and-dance ritual, but it's more about being professional about it and showing that you can show some composure, both of which are traits that studios tend to like
Showing up in person is basically interrupting someone and demanding attention - it's rude. I don't get why everyone is butt hurt about this - you're honestly rebelling against being able to quickly apply online via the internet?
I thought I mentioned it but at one studio a dude showed up, knocked at the front door because you can't get in without a keycard until official business hours; we had to interrupt the hiring manager during a phone call so he could deal with the guy. He basically told him we don't accept applications in person and he should go home and apply online.
2 things, the guy looked crushed, I guess he expected to be hired on the spot and secondly he has to go home and email the guy who is already slightly miffed at having his really busy schedule interrupted.
Desperation is bad - studios see it as "this guy doesn't really want to work here but he's got no other options"
Idd. I mean, I can just picture everyone dropping their Wacom styli and jaws dropping... 'Look... a human being.... and...and...he doesn't work in the industry' *gasps all around* "QUICK, LOCK THE DOORS, BARRICADE THE PERIMETER, WE GOT OURSELVES AN INTRUDER'.
I really have to side with this query. There certainly seems to be this superiority complex and stigma of elitism within the games industry. I've noticed it before in some threads but this one has really brought out some interesting points.
I mean, get over yourselves guys... it's really just a skilled job, like any other skilled job. Pushing polys doesn't make you extra-special, regardless of what the guy on the next desk tells you.
Quite ironic, given the number of people who get kicked to the curb each month.
/bows to the game art gods
As for special treatment? Doesn't that happen? Someone gets the job because they know someone, not necessarily for merit or having gone through 'proper' channels? So being desperate shouldn't exclude you from the screening process, sure. But to be put on an imaginary blacklist because you simply applied in person (let's say, with no cosplay involved)?
Sounds more like some people just have a need to justify their choices. The no walk-ins is something I've seen in every non public facing office job me or anyone I know has ever worked in.
The mean snobby game devs who actually fly you out, put you up in a hotel, pay for your moving expenses AND they don't expect you to wear a suit and tie to the interview. The only eltitism I see is coming from your end.
and no, nobody gets black listed for showing up - it's just, chances are you're probably an odd socially awkward guy - what would you want your first impression to be? A thoughtfully worded email and some bad ass art or a stammered "ummm, ahhh, I'd really like to work for you guys".
need to add that all the passive aggresive, snarky remarks are pissing me off - no we aren't scared of people and freak out if someone walks in - this is an industry where the people in charge of hiring are swamped with applications, so walking in is basically asking people to drop what they're doing and deal with you. Maybe if it was the other way around - more jobs than available work - sure studios would be happy for you to walk in but right now your just asking the guy with two phones up to either ear while he's composing emails to deal with you.
Think of this way: if you're in HR, it's healthy to assume everyone who applies for a job would like that position. People who show up uninvited outside the studio are showing the exact same desire but also saying, "I have the time and/or money to be here in person." Great, but who cares? What's more tenacious? Driving two states to hand-deliver a resume, or spending 40 extra hours working on a new portfolio piece that specifically follows that studio's style?
I recently interviewed at a studio; they didn't ask for an animation test, but I showed up with a small five-second shot based off stuff in their upcoming game. It wasn't a mind-blowing piece of animation but it said, "Hey, I know what you're doing here. I like where your game is headed and I can fit in making this kind of work." Regardless of whether you're applying blindly or showing up for an interview, I don't think desperation helps. Show them that you can be part of their team and make the work they need.
That being said, the best way to land a job at a video game company is still nepotism. Word of mouth, being friends with someone that works there and sometimes referrals will get you the job.
A brief history of how I got into the games industry for those interested. Applied in person multiple times for a QA position at EA. I should note I was told each time I applied that I don't need to keep dropping my resume off once a week it doesn't help. I got a call back 4 months later interviewed and got a job in QA. Worked in QA for two years and continually pestered development teams to let me work for free to show my skills, was able to volunteer a couple times being a human batch script among other non important tasks like scanning in images from magazines for an art director. Taught myself 3D studio at nights after working in QA and made a small portfolio of props and a character. Applied for a job as a junior environment artist on the internal job boards. Got the job at a significantly reduced salary as I didn't have an art degree. Worked at EA for 10 years and quit to join Microsoft 2.8 years ago. Got the job at Microsoft from nepotism, my friend had quit a couple months before to join Microsoft as a game director on a new IP and asked me if I wanted to join his team as an art director so I interviewed and got the job.
Although it worked for me I don't recommend going the QA route, if you have the financial means definitely go to 3D school and make sure you focus your portfolio on a specific discipline rather than trying to cover all the bases. Then spam every company and every person on polycount that works at a company you want to work at, but make sure to do it professionally and don't piss anyone off. Ultimately your portfolio will get you the job if there is an open position for a junior.
I've been thinking this through because I know how the system works, but I'm not sure why it works this way. Below is just my opinion.
First of all, I wouldn't call it a mating ritual. Every company has a process outlined on their job posting. Follow it. Secondly, if you are financially desperate you need to concentrate on applying at as many studios as possible and be willing to relocate, not spend your time driving to each one and applying in person. Also, being desperate is only a negative because that's the first impression you are leaving with your potential employer. It's best to appear confident and relaxed no matter what your situation. Besides if you start off desperate and you walk into a situation where you don't even know if someone will speak with you, you're just adding to your own stress. But if you really feel the need to show up, then call ahead so that at least one person is expecting you.
Someone used the term elitist, but that's not the case either. I've written dozens of recommendation letters, and introduced several of my students to other professionals. The main reason behind that was so that my students can start networking and hopefully get a foot in the door that way.
Anyway, here are the reasons I think walk ins are usually not welcome at most game studios:
- Game studios are often working on unannounced projects. I know at Robot we have a couple of walls we cover up when we are expecting guests.
- We have full schedules. At Robot we rarely have crunch time, but that means we're concentrating at the work at hand. Even lunch is usually a work related meeting.
- Interviews are all day events. Most other industries you only interview with one or two people. At game companies you usually meet with the entire team or company. There's no way to walk in and get an interview.
- The game industry isn't like the service or retail industry were receptionists are trained to handle walk ins, who are usually clients. In fact, at game companies we usually call them office managers and not receptionists.
- Let's be honest, the game industry can attract some really weird people. Unless they are in full costume, you can't tell which camp they are in at first glance. Unfortunately, if you show up uninvited you automatically lean toward the weird side.
- Finally, security. This either means you won't be able to get in, or if you do, you might scare the people inside. Sure you know you're harmless, but there is no way anyone else can know that.
I think some of my ideas can be explained better, but I think I got the point right.[OT] Some advice on not becoming desperate.
As soon you have that first job, start saving money. 401K and a cash savings account. The last time I got laid off in 2003 I had 6 months of rent/bills saved up. While you are saving, start networking. Get to know your co-workers and go to industry meet ups. Networking can help you get your foot in the door in case anything happens. A company I worked at shut down just 8 months after I started.
Most importantly, keep growing as an artists. In the end it's your portfolio that does the talking. [/OT]
I think this is a rather severe assumption. I have a friend who works at a large, successful studio who loves talking to potential new hires -- when he's not trying to meet deadlines. He recently gave a 2-hour lecture to university students, for FREE, and stayed an additional two hours to answer any and all questions. Does that sound like a developer with a superiority complex? But if you show up in his studio's parking lot and try to push a reel on him at lunch, he will be extremely annoyed with you.
And when this studio has interviews, he often doesn't find out until 10-15 minutes before. He has to stop what's he doing, lose productivity on his assigned art tasks, and spend a big chunk of his day speaking with a stranger. And that stranger has already been vetted by HR, supervisors, an animation test, and at least one phone interview. Now you expect him to be open and willing to dealing with completely anonymous people of unknown skill and experience who just show up at the studio?
Can we frame this another way? I find it incredibly selfish of people who think that they can just show up at a studio and demand attention that no other applicant receives.
Exactly my point... why does it have to be one way or the other?
What about the guy with a reasonably good folio who walks in, confidently (friendly confident, not asshole confident), finds the receptionist, and kindly says 'Hello, I'm here to drop this portfolio and job application in, would you mind passing it on to the relevant department?'.
"Hi, I know that there is an established method for application, but you see im special"
Unless you know someone in the place and you've organised a visit you're wasting a busy persons time. Imagine what message that sends about what your like to work with.
There's obviously established routes to go. It's not giving you a heads up to go there in person, so why do it? I don't understand where all these arguments are coming from.
I know our HR is swamped with stuff right now and is basically booked the entire day. He needs to have a heads up and his life becomes 200% easier if people follow the recommended routines.
The legacy behind the entire philosophy of showing up in person is that you are sending the message that you have the initiative to followup in person and have a genuine interest in the job. Both things that people often took as indicators of someone with a good work ethic... This harkens back to the days before there were actual systems in place for hiring people and internet based applications. As has been adequately covered in this thread in most cases ignoring the systems studios have in place to make their jobs easier tends to make people think you are being aggressive/pushy and entitled, which is assuming you can even get in the front door. Those might be useful traits in a political/corporate or sales position but are not incredibly relevant skills for artists.
There are no rules and there are always exceptions, if the studio is actually set up to receive walk-ins then your odds of sending the wrong signals go down, but one look through this thread will easily tell you that is usually not the case.
The question is this: With such minimal benefits and significant drawbacks, do you really want to gamble on that? If you have a good portfolio, I'd say no. Your best bet is to not fuck it up and do things the way the studio wants you to.
Yeah apologies I was a bit of a cunt with what I said.
I just think there can be responses and things said on this forum that smack of elitism, and some people in this thread have replied in much better ways than others.
Saying 'it's stupid to just disregard protocols when you should just follow the application process they have in place' is far better than saying something like 'We had this dude come in uninvited once....we still laugh about that creepy freak to this day'.
You're being overly sensitive and taking comments too personally. There's nothing wrong with saying it in either of those two ways.
This is polycount, not beat-around-the-bush-count.
That's what you have to contend with though. Its might not be nice but it exists, and its worth knowing that you run a risk of reducing your chances by 'dropping in'
I think that's what you mean.
Don't assume the rest of the world is the same.
Just because one 'survived the gauntlet of brutality and destruction' by getting an industry job, doesn't mean they need to constantly reaffirm how harsh an environment it can be... let people find that out from themselves.
It just comes across to me as people being all 'empowered' because they've made it through. Like people who've had tattoo's and say it hurt a lot just so they look macho.
I'm gonna drop out now because I've massively derailed the topic, my comments are verging on trolling... and I'm not really in any position to comment anyway.
Don't do it. Just follow protocol.
It has nothing to do with elitism, it's just the proper thing to do.
More like, its people telling you how it is rather than sugar-coating it for you.
People are not saying that handing in CV's in person is a bad idea because they want you to have a harder time landing a job. They're telling you its a bad idea because its a bad fucking idea.
Pretty much all studios have a jobs/careers page on their website which lays down a pretty clear procedure for applying for a job. If you don't follow that, you're going to attract attention for all the wrong reasons. Having a blatant disregard for, or lack of appreciation for proper procedure is not a plus point to ANY employer - in any industry.
I'm crunching at the moment, and during this period of 60-70 hour weeks I've spent my entire saturday at an expo in London, critiquing art portfolios and giving people advice on how to break into the industry as an artist. Unpaid, on my own dime I might add.
There are a ton of other people on here who do as much or more - during their free time outside of work, posting critiques and tutorials, helping out other artists (many of which are students) and generally being fucking awesome. For a forum which is for the most part comprised of industry professionals .... polycount is about as far the opposite end of the scale from elitism as you can possibly get.
as for the OP..if you are dead set on it..call them..it would save you a trip
A list? There is no list. Why would you ask that? LOL, this guy... "A list!" Ha, never. Who told you? Not that there's anything to tell. Whoever told you might be on it. If there was an it. Which there isn't.
Seriously though... if somebody compeletly drops the ball it's hard to forget about it. It may cost your company money, or cost your team weeks of crunch time. It's hard to recommend them when asked. And declining to comment on somebody's previous performance is just as bad as a negative comment. And when you apply at a company everybody at that company is going to ask around.
I'm glad I've never worked with an artist that I wouldn't be happy working with again.
The one thing I really dislike is the whole indirect way of contacting them
in example
GAMECOMPANYX@JOBS.COM
Its just a generic email that goes to some company. And While on the hunt for work I sent out emails to companies like this MONNNNNNNNNNNNNTHS ago, hell I had one dating back almost a year and a half and I get a email back finally saying not inserted or the roll is filled etc.
I really wish there was more companies that had people you can talk to atleast in a non automated way. This industry is already retarded enough with trying to get work and how stream lined it is when filing for work on websites. But atleast some one talking to you makes you feel your not wasting your time either. Showing up is taboo but sometimes I think when a company dosent atleast respond back to you its like there ASKING for someone to come and do this.
(kitty resident evil ears and all) But For real I dont Agree with people who just show up as many people said, its time and money your wasting for people. But alot of the HR can atleast email you back and say "not hiring, not inserted, not skilled enough, whatever"
Also before any person on here says something along the lines of "if you have a god tier portfolio you wont have these problems" Click on this link in my regards to that smart ass of a answer.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1rBVTg5fOU/TlxD5Y7p6kI/AAAAAAAACuA/VNmEXVgQ9uE/s1600/angry+dog-2.jpg
So it would seem to my mind it's better to follow established protocols and procedures to get hired rather than making a bunch of noise and hoping that helps get you noticed in a good way.
It's not like all portfolios received by email went into a "do not hire bin". Rather it was the opposite as such portfolios were easy to keep track of and didn't take up any physical storage space (where things truly get lost). I helped to review all reels and portfolios that were ever received by my company. For those that demonstrated the right skills we brought those people in for interviews when we were looking to hire more people.
I also don't mean to say that we just disregarded and dumped walk in's portfolios in the garbage either. No one's portfolio was ever trashed and everyone's portfolio or reel got reviewed at some point. It just seamed to turn out that those that just showed up out of nowhere were also those that had the least relevant portfolios.
I'd say if you live close to a studio then let them know about it through email or by phone (if they take calls) it's a huge plus for getting an interview. Just don't show up out of the blue hoping for special attention, you'll be wasting someone's time. At least in our case we didn't have any dedicated receptionist(s) just sitting around, we had an office manager who was always busy with something.
As far as being "creeped out" by a stranger in the office. I think it's sort of like this: As you work at a place with the same people day in and day out with few visitors it sort of becomes like home (a comfortable and safe place to be). Then all of a sudden there's some stranger standing behind you watching you work... how does that feel? Kind of creepy, I think. We also had bunch of people (not related to our company) that had been scammed out of their employee retirement accounts show up at the office a few times looking for those responsible. At another location, some poor lady got sexually assaulted in the parking lot. I have a few more stories to tell of this kind, but I'm too lazy to write them all out, and I think you all get the point. I'm sure other people have some crazy stories to tell of office intruders as well like Illfonic UNDER ARREST!
So strangers entering your office unannounced definitely sends up some warning flags even though they might be and probably are harmless. It's hard to get past that first awkward impression so why risk it?
Sometimes one just needs to engage in a little braggadocio.
The creepiness business strikes me as a little silly. If a person pops in to hand in their resume they'll be in and out in a couple of minutes whether they get turned away immediately or not, unless the HR or art director decides to engage them in which case they're probably decent non-creepy folks anyway.
Strolling in without prior mention isn't the right way to go about things but realistically it shouldn't cause either party any distress. It's just some naive kid making a mistake and should be treated as such.
Either way you'll come off kinda strange because most people has to go through prior application-processes to even get to the "office interview". I don't believe it's a good idea in the end.
I don't really agree with the whole elitism thing, I don't believe any of us here feels like they're "better" than others. Most of us are here to learn and share our experiences, making friends and networking. Having a good time doing it as well.
I respect my seniors, the ones on the same level and students. We are all on the same road, we all share similar interest and most of us are really kick-ass people. I know it's tricky to get in, but yeah I think that's a good thing, that's why we see students and unemployed showing off really awesome art because the crossbar is set that high. And then again the best thing you can do is networking, get to know people and make friends.
Heh, cheap shot... like it.
Architects have a reason to be elitist, they are required to do 5 years of Uni by law... since construction fortunately has a lot of legal regulations, and building design is a science as much as an art.
As for dodging a bullet, I don't know what you are geting at. I worked Arch-Viz for 4 years from '06 onwards and earned more than the majority of game artists I know, the beautiful thing was I got to get in at 9 and go home at 5:30 too... no crunch, no stress, no fear of being kicked after I finished a project.
Sure it was quiet during the worst parts of the recession but instead of just canning what the company thought were the low end employees, chief Architects and execs took salary cuts first, and people worked fewer days a week for a while.
The only reason I don't do it anymore is because I finished my Architecture degree. Otherwise, it's a decent 3D job which pays well (especially freelance), is stable, and hours that allow you to maintain a social life and family who don't feel neglected.
/derail
While architecture has the ability to pay more than your average game dev job, ask around and I'm sure almost everyone here would rather take a lower paying game job than to have to wear slacks and tie to work every day.
No matter the pay, at this point in my life, I would never wear slacks and tie to work. I don't wear them to formal occasions so I sure as hell won't wear them to work.
That's kind of a generalisation though really. I know a lot of Architects who wear jeans, sneakers and a shirt, then just some casual blazer or something. Especially studios with younger guys. It's just because of tradition and stereotype I guess, the idea that when you go and meet 'Mr Smith' who's spending £750k on his latest development, he [presumably] doesn't want some bearded hipster in jeans doing the work... of course as people become more open minded about that sort of thing then I think the suited Architect may become a thing of the past.
In any case, I enjoy dressing smart for a few hours a day, looking sharp can be pretty uplifting sometimes. Besides, I get to come home/spend weekends throwing on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and I don't feel like I've been sat in the same clothes all the time.
Soo, 5 years of school allows people to be elitist? Did not know that. :poly124:
Or it's just a bunch of people who think they're rockstars, it all depends on what kind of personality you have. I prefer the humble type.
What you wear doesn't matter, it's all about having the right attitude towards others. It boils down to respect. Respect friends/co-workers, respect the hard work everybody puts in, it's a team effort, everybody contributes, have a good time. :thumbup::)