Legitimate question about General Discussion Forums.
mod
Ok, im a little confused right now. And yes, I already read the rules of the forums. I re-read them before starting this thread.
Im not trying to be a douche, Im just curious as to why a thread like the english premier leage would be closed because its off topic? There was no uprising or thread derailment. On the main page of the forums, the description of general discussion clearly says this is where all off-topic chatter goes on.
So why is it a soccer thread gets closed, but threads like the olympics, the london riots, or even threads about people having babies arent closed? None of them are game or art related.
Im not trying to be a dick, and by no means am I saying the threads I mentioned are any more or less important than others.. and I realize this thread will be closed as well. But Im asking a legit question here. What topics are deemed closable threads in an off-topic forum?
Im not trying to be a douche, Im just curious as to why a thread like the english premier leage would be closed because its off topic? There was no uprising or thread derailment. On the main page of the forums, the description of general discussion clearly says this is where all off-topic chatter goes on.
So why is it a soccer thread gets closed, but threads like the olympics, the london riots, or even threads about people having babies arent closed? None of them are game or art related.
Im not trying to be a dick, and by no means am I saying the threads I mentioned are any more or less important than others.. and I realize this thread will be closed as well. But Im asking a legit question here. What topics are deemed closable threads in an off-topic forum?
Replies
The gist: Trying to keep Polycount focused, unlike other 3D art websites. We won't be having multiple sub-forums for every niche topic of conversation you can think of.
"You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here"
Polycount is an art board and while big events like the world cup or the super bawls might spark a random thread (that eventually dies out), this isn't really the spot to gather to be a sports nerd. Art/game nerds? Sure.
Also, almost everything in GD links back to games or art in some way. To me it seemed like this wasn't so much of an attempt to talk about something off topic as it was more for a call to start a fan club for something totally unrelated to the boards. There are boards for soccer/football, LOADS of them.
That's my take on it, Adam might have another reason EDIT: Or read what Adam wrote above hahaha
The Olympics thread should have been closed, certainly, and I apologize if it looks a bit like a double-standard. If I were you, I would certainly see it as such but I assure you the thread was just overlooked.
The London riots and 'baby threads' have a direct connection to our community. Specifically, members might be effected by both and therefor we are generally OK with these threads going.
A few days ago we had a brief discussion about putting in a bigger effort to focus Polycount in the direction of 3D videogame art among its threads so what you're seeing now is that happening.
In other news: Over the coming weekend we'll be lifting the need for thread moderation on new members as 99% of the threads we're authorizing are from legitimate people looking to join Polycount. The other 1% will be up to you guys to report the spam and our team finding them and removing them before they get out of hand.
Lack of consistency there, me thinks.
PC definetly needs an Art GD and and an Off topic GD. Polycount is the only forum community I use and if we were only allowed to disscuss Art and nothing else. It might get a little boring here tbh.
There certain is -- was -- a lack of consistency which is what we're trying to correct here on out. If things get boring around here (never!) we'll certainly open up a "Off-topic" forum, but for now lets focus on... well, getting focused.
But, ill stop arguing and simply put in a formal request for an off-topic forum. just an all-in-one sub-forum. Obviously not a place for personal blogs, but for sports and life announcements and what not. but im rather fond of the community here and would like to be able to discuss other things as well. Then the belly-off club can be a sticky, or at least i think it would be a great one, as it affects our communities health.
Sorry for ranting. Didnt want to call you out adam, i was honestly just trying to figure out why. thats all.
I'll tell you what: When i get home tonight I will email the team and see their thoughts on a sub-forum in GD for off-topic shenanigans. My immediate thought is we'll need people to moderate that, which is a trivial issue really.
One big question tho. What does this mean for long-running threads like the Thread of Awesomeness or What Are You Listening To?
I think threads like Flaagan's Green With Envy are a good example of how an off-topic thread can still run its course successfully and without compromising the integrity of the boards.
Just difference in opinions of whats off-topic and completely off-topic really.
And im with you. I do like that its a concentrated forum. I hate ones that have too many subforums. But an offtopic wouldnt hurt i dont think.
Personally, id put the thread of awsomeness, nice pictures thread,and belly-off club as stickys in a off-topic sub forum. I know the nice pictures could relate to art as inspirtation, but, if its a sticky, its easy to find anyways.
Thanks for listening Adam.
Penis tanks can stay though.
1) Staff decides that Serious Internet is Serious Business Only
It's a great mentality and a noble goal; we want to look professional, be a valuable resource, cut out the drama and fluff, etc.
It is almost always counter-productive.
In Theory: People will be attracted to a valuable, professional, specialized resource.
In Practice: People want to feel comfortable and hang out while leaving respectable content in their wake; not the other way around.
The solution: One centralized and completely off-topic forum. Let the forum do what it does best. The front-page is your resource center.
2) Too many sub-forums
Forums are best at supporting 'browsing'. 'Searching' is for search engines, the search function and the front-page.
Sub-forums dramatically hurt browsing with negligible search benefit.
In Theory: Specialized sub-forums help people get to relevant content faster and promotes high quality discussion.
In Practice: Sub-forums prevent people from seeing most threads at all which drastically reduces activity everywhere.
The Solution: Consolidate and remove inactive forums. Ignore people who whine about having to read thread titles; they do it anyways.
Right now there are clear signs of #1 developing; we want to be a great mature art resource, but we've already experienced general discussion devolving into more "this isn't your blog!" responses than actual content and we all know how terrible that is. It's the wrong approach.
#2 is what you're suggesting as a solution to #1 and that is lose-lose. One of the two GD forums will essentially die and the other will survive but have lessened activity. Technical Talk will probably also suffer as a side-effect.
Recommendations:
Remove content restrictions on General Discussion and rename to Off Topic Disccusion. Moderate behaviour not content.
Rename Technical Talk to Art & Technical Talk so both thrive with quality discussion.
Merge Sketchbooks, Archives, Showcase into one forum. They're all persistent display areas for resources.
Merge UPCP, Q-Branch, GAW into one forum. They're all low-frequency community activities.
Two horse race arguments go go!
(I'm all for a concentrated forum. Change is scary and inviting to idiots like me, damnit!)
We don't need to consolidate the forums that we have, just ask people to keep a couple things in mind when they go to submit a post. I'm not about to completely re-arrange peoples browsing habits over a small request I made. As for adding a sub-forum, we haven't really needed one before (besides within Tech. Talk) so I can't see it being added here for the reasons you mentioned above.
All-and-all, I closed one off-topic thread, agreed we were a bit inconsistent in the past, and noted we'll be correcting that. Polycount isn't changing, at all.
Keep calm & carry on. (And all that).
EDIT: I forgot to thank you for posting your observations from other forums. For the reasons you've mentioned, this is why we don't make too many drastic changes around here. Most people on the team have been apart of Polycount and other forums for 10+ years. We've seen mistakes happen all over the place and do our best to make sure they don't happen here.
I'm not even remotely interested in football but I'm perfectly happy for people to discuss it, and same with the inevitable SUPER BAWLS thread that pops up every time it's due.
Imo the only threads which should get closed are ones which become abusive or are just plain stupid.
At the very least posts that read like a journal and have nothing to do with art at all, abusive or out-right stupid posts will be removed and nothing else will change. This sounds fair.
If that means we need a little direction or "encouragement" along the way, well I've sort of come to expect that and don't see any problems. One day that could mean closing a few threads, another it could mean announcing a contest. Seems fine to me.
I agree. The moderators have done a great job of allowing just the right content to continue to flood the general forums. That's why I love it so much. No bullshit threads ...most of the time.
No fair you edited that post
I have found that most game developers hate football (I refuse to call it Soccer sorry).
Nothing wrong with threads about sports in my opinion. According to this rule then the Belly Off Thread should also be closed?
So I would say I disagree. But its r13's site. And he can do what he feels best.
However, going to one location versus bouncing all over the internet to discuss " Life, The Universe, and Everything" (Plus Movies/TV/Music). At a place that has the same interests as you in career/passion. Is something Adam and Co I think are missing in trying to make this more "professional".
By making it so, you loose some of the community aspect of it. Oh sure, you limit the trolling. But at what expense?
It's these type of behind closed door decisions that I think ruin sites community. But like I said. I'm just a peon among many.
Im weary of "professional" terms.
Would you prefer that we make every waking decision with a poll to the community?
No. That's only a problem when the people behind those doors are selfish, foolish, or both. Polycount's (extensive, by Internet standards) history doesn't hint at the various moderators and editors being either of those things. In fact, if the ones making decisions are the right ones for the job - they probably should be making decisions behind closed doors at least part of the time. Sometimes, it helps to preserve the things that are important. The "majority" is not always right, nor does it always know what is best.
In fact that's pretty rarely the case.
I don't think people should make this out to be a bigger thing than it is. It's not really anything.
(Before I get the "this site isn't for making friends" speal. A: Some of us work from home. B: Just because you work with or go to school with some other artists, doesn't mean they auto become your friends. C: No, but making relationships is one of the benefits of this site over something inpersonal like CGchat.)
(Adam I would, but then Im a democratic socialist, so my viewpoint is bit biased).
This is the last point I will make about this directed to you specifically.
Two Listen: Your last sentence is spot on.
How about letting thread posters mark their thread "Off-Topic" in their posting options, and provide some kind of sorting mechanic that'll give you "All", "On Topic-only" and "Off Topic-only"?
For the sorting bit of it, use tabs at the top of the GD forum to effect your sorting options, perhaps?
FWIW, I think the PC team moderate the boards well and have a good gauge for what content should be in GD - Everything but journal-posts, religion and super off topic subjects seem to be fine.
QFT
Not a bad idea!
just add a few boxes in the "additional options" section at the bottom, and have it defaulted to ontopic, but anyone that wants to do offtopic things, like sports, funnies, weight loss, beer, can change it up. moderate blog posts and plain STUPID posts, but anything else that is listed offtopic, just moderate behavior. not topics. it would be a small change that wouldnt through peoples browsing habits out of whack.
Great suggestion, glynn!
and mark is right. I do take everything as reference for animation! haha.
all what glynn suggested would do is eliminate thread being closed because of their subject. thats all.
if anything, its less sensoring... if its marked with off topic, you can talk about whatever (sports for example), but if people are being giant douche bags, thats when it gets closed. same as now.
plus, bowen, if you dont like the offtopic stuff, you just set your display to ontopic on. then you dont see the offtopic stuff and you`re good to go.
Emmm, your not really making a good case for this...
this has nothing to do with changing peoples behaviors. the same stupid threads that end up with cats will still be closed, just like before. the same good threads will stay open, just like before. all this would do is allow people to post other threads they like, that others can join in on. thats all. if you dont like the offtopic stuff, you only search the on topic stuff.
I agree that a little Off Topic is good and even healthy for a community, work can often be a heavy dose of "serious business" and having a place to blow off a little steam with like minded people is pretty awesome.
But too much could also sink the ship if that becomes the focus of the boards. As with everything, whatever you spend your time doing, that is what you get good at. If you're posting cats and being a btard most of the time then you're probably focusing on skills that don't necessarily line up with your long term goals?
I also agree that it's not much of an issue. For the most part PC is fairly democratic on most of the big things? I can't remember a big change that wasn't brought on or followed by some kind of group discussion and general well thought out consensus? :poly141:
Considering the response to this hasn't been "BAN HAMMER UR ALL WRONGZ! BOW TO MEH!" I don't think the big green space station is spinning out of control.
I also think that people from other disciplines like programing and animation like to come here because of the comradery, they may not have much to contribute in the way of character or environment art but they like to hang here and offer their 2 bits.
In short, Be cool, don't be a tool and things normally work out fine.
and really, its not like we see offtopic stuff pop up too often anyways. but its nice to be able to do so. it still wouldnt be a place for your blog.
I like the fact that people can come on here and talk game art but also talk about things that are not game art, but common interests.
Generally I don't like going to more focused forums (ie nfl.com) because i quite frankly don't have much in common with the people that post there. I have lots in common with the people here, so I always like to hear their views on other things I like.
I agree that this is not your blog, but general discussion usually is always off topic and should stay that way.
100 percent game art gets boring really quick.
I agree with skanker, mark and the others on this issue. We made GD to be a catch all for these types of posts. For no other reason that we do not want them in all the other sections, which is again why we have GD. Sub forums and all that just split the traffic into smaller and smaller channels and slowly they dry up. We've seen this sort of thing over the years when we have tried it.
Personally, I can't immediately think of a game art topic that I would consider to post in GD. Maybe some sort of review of a game perhaps. But never the less, I'd want to post them in one of the other channels as I would be looking for intelligent feedback. If I stuck something in GD, I'd somewhat expect to see cats and lols and someone telling me that i'd get a better response in another section of the forums.
That said, GD shouldn't be a clone of Reddit either. We don't want to see religion, politics, etc. discussed here as those topics can cause a lot of passionate discussion which often is not productive to our community. If someone is being a asshole, then we'll close it. If a thread has spun out of control, we'll close it.
If anyone sees a thread that is becoming "bad", in GD or otherwise, please contact one of the mods with a message. We'll stomp it down. If you must also post cats, then so be it. At least put some effort into it.
Actually, I agree. But I was more concerned about "sportsism" from admin.