I sleep better at night knowing that my country can pretty much wipe anyone else off the face of the earth if it came down too it.
Also in terms of civilian casualty's, in things like WW1 and 2 the enemy wasn't really using them as human shields/specifically targeting civilians to incite terror and fear into the general population. IMO terrorists like Al Queda and the Taliban are worse then the Nazi. Because in reality if Al Queda and the Taliban could execute the kinda genocide that Hitler was able too near the end of the war they would and they would do it to far greater chunk of the world who doesn't share there extremist Muslim views.
US has amazing war tech, if they could only spend that time making better "Everyday" tech... Life would be better than ever.
American scientists still make amazing tech. it is just that now capitalism has reached an all time high and anything that lasts too long or is too good cannot be marketable, other wise it is not profitable.
this is why technology from 50 years ago lasted almost 20 years while some of the simplest tech of same type now days dont last more than few years. they are built to expire so that we buy new stuff again and again. there are few exceptions as always though.
back to the war, where do you think all those money for the war goes to? it is for the war tech, oil, logistics and any other parties involved in providing services and goods for the war. these are not poor people by any means or at least the big chunks go to the CEOs of those companies. it is modern way of funneling money from the average citizens to the corporations and "rich people".
you hit a good point about the libyan resource, water etc. basically it is about keeping 3rd world governments in a 3rd world status so that they dont become too rich or too powerful.
RE the 9/11 attack, think of it as Saudi assassins paid by Saudi/CIA to create a catalyst for all these wars that cost 3 TRILLION dollars. and who gets this 3 TRILLION dollars ? the bank, the oil companies and the defense contractors all of whom supply/provide product and/or services for war.
the lybian war is also created by French intelligence, NATO and CIA.
RE Gaddafi, he is loved my majority of his citizens. there has be tons of pro-gaddafi rally the likes of which have never been shown in any mainstream western media. but that are available in the internet and not that hard to find.
the rebels are just paid off thugs who are there to make a short term profit by terrorizing the general citizens.
willful ignorance is contagious but in this day and age of mostly free flowing information it is not that hard to find the truth.
@ Super Happy Cow
Whilst some of those videos might be real and I am sure even if they aren't many of those acts have been committed, it is the nature of civil war some, of those videos are ridiculous. A lot of the accents and dialects are not libyan, some appear odd to say the least for example "NATO bombs normal cars" normal cars that drive in the middle of the road and that other road users are pulling into the lay-by for, somehow I doubt that...
A single infrastructure project, admittedly an impressive one (though I'm sure there must have been a better way to spend US$25 billion) cannot be taken to balance out 40 years of deprivation and human rights abuses(though the health care system is pretty good for the region).
I do agree and while King Abdullah has eased of a bit on the whole funding wahhabism they do still support radical Islamic teachings and ma still be funding terrorist regimes on the sly (though there aren't many left baathism is now thankfully dead in iraq and by the look of things may not be much longer for this world in syria, the taliban has been reduced to a mere guerrilla army not the prowd government of Afghanistan it once was)
Meh water is hard to move around, the aquifer system is already built. Under your conspiracy theory nothing is gained by the attacking parties by invading, they just now have a democratic probably centre-left country with an aquifer system instead of a dictatorial country with an aquifer system.
Keeping Africa subjugated is in no ones interest, most western countries suffer a major trade deficit a massive amount of rapidly growing economies is exactly what is needed to fix that (is why china have been tryign to encourage growth in africa since the recession as the west was no longer buying there goods) If you think it is westerners scared of africa overtaking the west well then
African Union GDP (excludes morroco):US $1.627 trillion
european Union GDP (excludes USA, canda ect ect): US $16.282 trillion
Not gunna happen anytime soon even with democratic industrial states all throughout Africa.
The left has just become so staunchly in favor of the status-quo it has become ridiculous, when it comes to foreign policy now they are far less radical and far far more conservative than those of the right.(I assume most of you consider yourself of the left) Was it 9/11 that they all decided that to help people within your own borders was a nice leftest action but to save people from torture, death and oppression outside your own borders at considerable cost to your own wallet and your own troops was an action worthy of utter scorn and the making up of ridiculous tin foil hat theories such as (my personal favorite) that Britain and France attacked libya to get more buyers for there jets.
Ah shit why did I write that instead of making art?
Yeah, i really feel that we are misinformed here. It's like, no one really know why the fuck we are doing there. Not so long ago, our gov (which i particulary dislike :q) welcomed him as a friend (though most french disagreed), because of juicy contracts. And now he's the filthy son of a bitch. I don't know. We can't defend Gaddafi neither, just protest against intrusion. Sites like wikileaks are vital. I wish they will develop, so that we could, at least, be aware of what the gov is doing and feel kinda in democracy.
I don't know about you, but these discussions would appear to be extremely important to me. A bit more so than cute doodles and sweet looking sculpts. Call me crazy. As long as we don't go overboard and start swearing at each other or using giant fonts, what's wrong with threads that are actually significant?
yes, i believe artists in general are more perceptive and intelligent than the average people who populate places like facebook/myspace etc. so yes, as long as the discussion is civil I think it is important.
Yeah, i really feel that we are misinformed here. It's like, no one really know why the fuck we are doing there. Not so long ago, our gov (which i particulary dislike :q) welcomed him as a friend (though most french disagreed), because of juicy contracts. And now he's the filthy son of a bitch. I don't know. We can't defend Gaddafi neither, just protest against intrusion. Sites like wikileaks are vital. I wish they will develop, so that we could, at least, be aware of what the gov is doing and feel kinda in democracy.
it seems US gov is creating more terrorists like they did in Afganistan so that US Gov can start yet another war later on to fight the terrorists they created.
for example, al-qaeda is a creation of CIA during the soviet war in afganistan. there was a CIA operation called Operation Cyclone:
right now the rebels in Libya is a similar situation. the rebels are basically the real terrorists killing civilians, Libyan army, police etc. and just recently US made around $3 billion of Libyan oil money available to the rebels and in total around $30 is there for the taking.
as far as the high level agenda, here are some clues. lot of people consider global domination aka new world order some sort of conspiracy theory but the US DOD website has it in clear writing, the "Unified Command Plan"
all of this might be for the good or for the bad. i guess we will know as history unfolds. i hope i am wrong about the global domination ideology though.
Replies
Also in terms of civilian casualty's, in things like WW1 and 2 the enemy wasn't really using them as human shields/specifically targeting civilians to incite terror and fear into the general population. IMO terrorists like Al Queda and the Taliban are worse then the Nazi. Because in reality if Al Queda and the Taliban could execute the kinda genocide that Hitler was able too near the end of the war they would and they would do it to far greater chunk of the world who doesn't share there extremist Muslim views.
[ame]
US has amazing war tech, if they could only spend that time making better "Everyday" tech... Life would be better than ever.
American scientists still make amazing tech. it is just that now capitalism has reached an all time high and anything that lasts too long or is too good cannot be marketable, other wise it is not profitable.
this is why technology from 50 years ago lasted almost 20 years while some of the simplest tech of same type now days dont last more than few years. they are built to expire so that we buy new stuff again and again. there are few exceptions as always though.
back to the war, where do you think all those money for the war goes to? it is for the war tech, oil, logistics and any other parties involved in providing services and goods for the war. these are not poor people by any means or at least the big chunks go to the CEOs of those companies. it is modern way of funneling money from the average citizens to the corporations and "rich people".
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/03/libyan-rebels-form-central-bank.html
http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/america-s-true-reason-for-attacking-libya-becomes-clear-with-new-central-bank
Not my views.
[ame]
you hit a good point about the libyan resource, water etc. basically it is about keeping 3rd world governments in a 3rd world status so that they dont become too rich or too powerful.
RE the 9/11 attack, think of it as Saudi assassins paid by Saudi/CIA to create a catalyst for all these wars that cost 3 TRILLION dollars. and who gets this 3 TRILLION dollars ? the bank, the oil companies and the defense contractors all of whom supply/provide product and/or services for war.
the lybian war is also created by French intelligence, NATO and CIA.
RE Gaddafi, he is loved my majority of his citizens. there has be tons of pro-gaddafi rally the likes of which have never been shown in any mainstream western media. but that are available in the internet and not that hard to find.
the rebels are just paid off thugs who are there to make a short term profit by terrorizing the general citizens.
willful ignorance is contagious but in this day and age of mostly free flowing information it is not that hard to find the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWzNhk3zv4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIglQMCkyg
Whilst some of those videos might be real and I am sure even if they aren't many of those acts have been committed, it is the nature of civil war some, of those videos are ridiculous. A lot of the accents and dialects are not libyan, some appear odd to say the least for example "NATO bombs normal cars" normal cars that drive in the middle of the road and that other road users are pulling into the lay-by for, somehow I doubt that...
A single infrastructure project, admittedly an impressive one (though I'm sure there must have been a better way to spend US$25 billion) cannot be taken to balance out 40 years of deprivation and human rights abuses(though the health care system is pretty good for the region).
I do agree and while King Abdullah has eased of a bit on the whole funding wahhabism they do still support radical Islamic teachings and ma still be funding terrorist regimes on the sly (though there aren't many left baathism is now thankfully dead in iraq and by the look of things may not be much longer for this world in syria, the taliban has been reduced to a mere guerrilla army not the prowd government of Afghanistan it once was)
Meh water is hard to move around, the aquifer system is already built. Under your conspiracy theory nothing is gained by the attacking parties by invading, they just now have a democratic probably centre-left country with an aquifer system instead of a dictatorial country with an aquifer system.
Keeping Africa subjugated is in no ones interest, most western countries suffer a major trade deficit a massive amount of rapidly growing economies is exactly what is needed to fix that (is why china have been tryign to encourage growth in africa since the recession as the west was no longer buying there goods) If you think it is westerners scared of africa overtaking the west well then
African Union GDP (excludes morroco):US $1.627 trillion
european Union GDP (excludes USA, canda ect ect): US $16.282 trillion
Not gunna happen anytime soon even with democratic industrial states all throughout Africa.
The left has just become so staunchly in favor of the status-quo it has become ridiculous, when it comes to foreign policy now they are far less radical and far far more conservative than those of the right.(I assume most of you consider yourself of the left) Was it 9/11 that they all decided that to help people within your own borders was a nice leftest action but to save people from torture, death and oppression outside your own borders at considerable cost to your own wallet and your own troops was an action worthy of utter scorn and the making up of ridiculous tin foil hat theories such as (my personal favorite) that Britain and France attacked libya to get more buyers for there jets.
Ah shit why did I write that instead of making art?
yes, i believe artists in general are more perceptive and intelligent than the average people who populate places like facebook/myspace etc. so yes, as long as the discussion is civil I think it is important.
it seems US gov is creating more terrorists like they did in Afganistan so that US Gov can start yet another war later on to fight the terrorists they created.
for example, al-qaeda is a creation of CIA during the soviet war in afganistan. there was a CIA operation called Operation Cyclone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
right now the rebels in Libya is a similar situation. the rebels are basically the real terrorists killing civilians, Libyan army, police etc. and just recently US made around $3 billion of Libyan oil money available to the rebels and in total around $30 is there for the taking.
http://inewp.com/?p=8131
as far as the high level agenda, here are some clues. lot of people consider global domination aka new world order some sort of conspiracy theory but the US DOD website has it in clear writing, the "Unified Command Plan"
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2009/0109_unifiedcommand/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5564
all of this might be for the good or for the bad. i guess we will know as history unfolds. i hope i am wrong about the global domination ideology though.