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3DS Max Trouble - Normal Maps Broken

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  • SpeCter
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    SpeCter polycounter lvl 14
    A normal map doesn´t change the shape at all, if there is a light source it seems as if from certain angles...
  • Nzdjh
  • timwiese
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    timwiese polycounter lvl 18
    looks like its working to me. If you move the light around in 3ds max does the highlight and shadow change on the beveled surface, if so then its working.
    Also i think you're misunderstanding the way a normal map works, it doesn't change the geometry, all it does is give the illusion of extra geometry when interacting with a light source.

    There is tons of normal mapping resources in the wiki. http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryTexturing%5Cb%29
  • Nzdjh
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    You're supposed to have any 'outside' beveled model, anything which is 'outside' the silhouette and is changing it be modeled, especially on that Box, a bevel like that wont' show too well on a Normal Map. It's simply too strong, something less and subtle will show up better in information baking.

    On the other hand, anything 'inside' modeled is perfectly fine on any scale. Anything which is 'pushed in' and cannot be read from the silhouette since it's not trying to put fake information, and baked to a normal map will show correctly, but again, it needs to Beveled to be read correctly.

    An example of what I mean:
    doom3h.jpg

    Everything that has a certain amount outside modeling is modeled, and anything that doesn't need to pop out as much, like say the gas cylinders on the chest (like the pads having those small grooves) are fined to be baked since the information transfer is more logical.

    If you wanted that thing to POP out more, in the outside bevel on the pads, you'll need to create a Relief/Parallax Map shader, however, it's too expensive and the performance hit is not worth it since you're simply getting a mesh to show up something which would be cheaper to model. Plus, I don't think Source would support it for TF2 naturally.

    All in all, you simply needs to know when to bake. Anything which (in my case) is maybe 1CM outside the model, could be baked, anything which requires a little more and is a clearly breaking of the silhouette on a bigger scale (like your box) would require and is much better off modeled.

    Some people will say otherwise, but the idea is simply how big that item is going to be and how close the player is going to get to it.
  • Nzdjh
  • gsokol
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    gsokol polycounter lvl 14
    Maybe you can get a better understanding of what the normal map is doing for you if you applied a real time shader with the normal map, so you don't have to render to see the result.

    Use a directX material, and apply a shader that uses normal maps. I like xoliul's shader: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62006


    Also, your bake is a little jacked. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but if your going to have a hard edge on your model (like the edges of a cube for example), I don't think you want soft edges there. The variation in color on your boxes shouldn't be there. It should be solid blue.

    If this extrusion is a large shape for the model, and should add to the silhouette of the model...just model it. Normal maps ore better suited to smaller details.
  • 16bit
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    16bit polycounter lvl 15
    Nope, when you bake an object, it's supposed to be all one smoothing group, which will produce a lot of gradients. But this is different for everything, for example, if you were baking a normal for udk, the smoothing groups should correspond to the uv islands.
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    @ Nzdjh: No problem mate, take it easy. Just rule of thumb, if it's breaking the outline of the model, model it, if it's inside, normal it.

    Also, I never modeled for TF2, so I don't know anything about this, but a new school of thought is that modeling stuff is simply 'cheaper' then having a large normal map which has extremely tiny details on which you need large maps sized to get a clean bake. Plus, materials add alot of weight to a model ingame, (in reference to UDK) so there is that to remember.

    Ask as much as you like on PC, we're here to help after all.

    gsokol: Depends, most people will bevel/chamfer the model to avoid such issues. Generally, a single smoothing group bake is all you need, as 16bit said, in other cases, you need to break them based upon UV islands.

    This all depends on the application you're using, in Max, I generally had an easy time with single smooth bakes.
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