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First Hand Painted Model (WIP)

polycounter lvl 14
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aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
Hey,
So I have been thinking for working on some hand painting, since I am so used to photo texturing.

Here is a low poly model I made. It is some sort of stone medieval platform I saw on a Diablo III image. I didn't mimic it 100% simply because I didn't want to, but here it is:

wip4.png




Its not finished, but its something . I used my mouse for this since my tablet hasn't come in the mail yet. How is it?

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  • HeatSeeking HandGrenade
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    look pretty good (maybe a little dark however!). If i were you i'd add alot more dinks and your upward facing edges should be highlighted, not shaded! not a bad start though.
  • Envart
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    Envart polycounter lvl 6
    The colours are a bit flat. I'd like to see moss and dust on it. Needs more wear I think.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    @ Heatseeking Handgrenade - Thanks man, I appreciate it.

    @ Gilesruscoe - Thanks, and yeah I think its a bit too dark too i'll lighten it up, and by dinks you mean cracks and thinks like that? I agree, I will add more highlights, I was working more on shading atm, its a pain with a mouse :p

    @ Walrus - Sounds like a plan. I was thinking of adding some moss on it. I will add more wear on it too.

  • Zelzaan
    Cool start! Looks really painterly to me, i like that. Same as the others: a bit to dark, could need more color-variation. There's a crack on top thats kinda blurry, maybe you should strenghten it, cracks usally do not fade out.

    Also Rendering a black platform in front of an black background may not be the wisest decision. Especially for me it's kinda hard to read, my screen is in front of the window, its bright outside.. and i do not have curtains yet :D So, maybe you should choose something lighter to present it.

    The funny thing is.. I rendered my last Sculpt also in front of a black BG, shame on me.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Haha, thanks for the feedback Zelzaan. Next update i'll make it a different color :D Yeah I noticed that crack just now actually, it must have been ditched lol. I will definitely lighten this thing up.
  • toxic_h2o
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    toxic_h2o polycounter lvl 8
    can I see the diablo source cause it looks like you are copying my work. haha.

    http://3dcube.tumblr.com/post/3579801857/decided-i-was-going-way-to-realistic-with-my
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    I honestly never saw that before! I didn't even know.

    This the one I was trying to follow:

    http://www.maxfreak.com/diablo3/images/diablo-3-screenshot-4.jpg
  • toxic_h2o
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    toxic_h2o polycounter lvl 8
    haha no problem at this stage it was just so similar i had to ask. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one trying to make a base thingy. Now I can watch this thread and see how you approach it. ;)
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    Grey is very dull, its very rare that you find 100% desaturated grey in anything, you can use a wide range of colours for rock; reds, oranges, yellows and even blues. Heres a quick paint over of what i mean, hopefully this is useful!

    brickpaintover.jpg
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Wow very helpful, but I have no idea how to change the color now without starting it over. Do you recommend a start over? or is there a way to replace the color?

    Thanks Giles
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    Im assuming your using photoshop, go to Image>Adjustments>Hue/saturation, set it to "colourise", add an orange hue and set it to around 25% saturation, also i'd lighten it up a little while you have the window open :)

    Thats what i did for all the bricks in my picture apart from the middle one which i painted, i wouldnt start over ... just paint over some of the stuff you have already.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Here is an update, is it better? I did kind of want the Grey stone because I was planning o making a medieval scene of some sort, but if this is better then I'll use this.

    WIP6-1.png
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    That looks alot better, a couple of things though:

    You still need to lighten up the edges of the stones, at the moment the look a little odd. Add some depth to your cracks, highlight the ridges of them.

    That crack in the center looks very lonely :P in your reference pic there are some kind of runic symbols, maybe try adding a bunch of those too.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Ha it is lonely :p I'll see what I can do :) Thanks!
  • aajohnny
  • LateWhiteRabbit
    Big improvement in the most recent image.

    However, it looks like you are using a soft-edged brush. This makes details and colors look blurry or airbrushed on. You want to use a hard-edged brush when doing the hand-painted look. That is what gilesruscoe used in the paint-over he did for you.

    Doing it with a hard-edged brush this way creates distinct marks and details. and makes sure every stroke you put down is purposeful. Afterwards, you can go back with an inbetween color to soften transitions between strokes, or add a little airbrushing for color hues.

    The name of the game is CONTRAST. Remember, any details have to read at a distance for the player, and the player must be able to tell what material this is with just a glance as they are running by or over it.
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    Ok, a little more free time has sprung up.

    LateWhiteRabbiet has provided you with some very good tips. Hard edge brushes really help you to get that textured look (i just use the defualt PS brush for this) and then afterwards go over with a soft edge to blend things together (for this i use a gradient brush). I tend to use 3-4 colours with the hard brush, and then a mixture of midtones with the softbrush to merge it all in. Painting with contrast is very important, try to find colours which are similar to each other, but dont share the same hue (not three red shades, but a red, yellow and orange for example).

    I mentioned before about your lack of high lighted edges. At the moment, all your edges are shaded, which doesnt make sense, as light hits edges making them brighter compared with flat surfaces. I did a little diagram for you as to which edges im talking about:
    hlshade.jpg

    This will certainly make your piece look alot better.

    Also, about your cracks, at the moment they have depth to them, and are all very narrow and not very pleasing to look at. Remember, rock has more damage to it than just fractures, it can chip, dent, scrape, crumble, fade and much more. Try to vary the shape of your cracks and apply them to areas which are likely to become damaged (mainly edges). Im in the mood for painting tonight, so i did another dirty quick stone texture for you to show what i meant about the cracks. Pretty much scribbled the flat areas, focus on the edges :p

    3 different hues:
    stones.jpg

    The flat texture for ya too:
    stone3.jpg

    Try not to get too carried away with edge damage though (i always do!) it may be fun to paint, but you dont need brick after brick with heavy damage on them. Try mix it up with other fun things like stains, plants (mainly moss or grass) and dirt!

    Right, back to work!
    Keep going xD
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Thanks guys,
    I am deciding to go with a grey stone, why? because I want to make a medieval scene kinda of like torchlight.

    TorchlightDiablo3.jpg

    Not the best picture, but I want a mossy grayish dungeon kind of texture. Thats why I originally picked gray.

    Wip.png?t=1299968557

    I am still having trouble I think with light highlights, what I do is use a hard brush and paint in details and then smudge it with a soft brush. For the light what do I do? do I use a hard white brush and then smudge with a soft?
  • LateWhiteRabbit
    You should avoid white for highlights. It just looks bad. Generally you want to use a very light hue of some color for your highlights so they look shiny or lit but not blown out, which using pure white will cause.

    Also, that Torchlight reference shot you are showing doesn't use gray for those textures. Those textures use green and brown. Your eyes may read it as gray, because that is what you assume stone is - but the texture creates visual interest by using color. That isn't just caused by the lighting. Look at this texture. That wall isn't gray. It is shades of blue and green. Lightly saturated blue and green, but color none the less.

    Also, really look at stone in the real world. It is very, very rarely actually gray. It is a shade of blue, or yellowish, or brown, or orange, or green-tinted, or a cream color. Gray is just the visual shorthand your brain has latched onto for that material.

    The hand-painted texture look is all about being painterly, and painters don't use gray. If you use gray and highlight with white and shade with darker grays or blacks, you will end up with a blown-out "dodge and burn" effect, which is the antithesis of the painterly style.

    It is likely saying that skin is pink, while the actual color of Caucasian is made up of reds, blues, and yellows. I recently did a character that wore all white. The actual texture I painted was shades of yellow, brown, and cream. Anyone looking at the character said they were wearing white - but that outfit looked a lot better than if I had really used white and gray. I could have also used purple and blue to paint the white, anything but actual white and gray.

    You need to really study and train yourself to observe and pay close attention to color. It will help your art immensely.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Oh thanks for that.
  • AtomicClucker
    Grays carry some saturation issues, as everyone else has added, use different colors so it breaks the sameness of the stone work. If you look at some real masonry, you'll also note that unless the placement of texture and color is deliberate such as buildings like the Pantheon or Hagia Sophia, then the stones usually carry a personality of their own.
  • LateWhiteRabbit
    colorstoneexample.jpg

    I desaturated the previous image I linked to and put it next to the original here, just to show you how much color the "gray" painterly wall actually has in a game like Torchlight.

    Hope all this is helping. Color is a hard skill to perfect, and really comes down to a lot of practice and observation.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Wow I see now, thanks that helps!
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    So here's a tileable floor I tried.

    2-1.png
  • LateWhiteRabbit
    That is a nice base. Now try working in some variations, chips, small cracks, etc. Something to break up the surface - of course not too much, since you want it to tile.

    Does this have a spec on it, or is it just your diffuse?
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Thanks, its a Diffuse, Normal and Specular.
  • LateWhiteRabbit
    Okay, then you need to push your normal more. It isn't doing enough to validate having it at the moment.

    Your specular is also too shiny at the moment to read as brick. Right now it is making everything look metallic.

    Nice to see you working color into the diffuse.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Will do thanks
  • vcortis
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    vcortis polycounter lvl 9
    Hey haven't done art so far this weekend so I did a quick paint-over of your platform. Right now you need to improve on a few things.

    1. Add way more color.
    2. Add some sort of bevel in between the stones.
    3. Add some surface detail to the stones.
    4. Push the contrast, but avoid using black (use a dark blue or purple instead)
    5. Since you don't have a lot of polys on your platform, you need to fake ambient occlusion on your stones. Paint in light shadows where they meet each other.
    6. Add some smaller rocks and pebbles to help break-up the platform and give scale
    7. Avoid using perfectly straight lines
    8. How is this UV'ed? It looks low res? Are you tiling the texture at all? How big is the map?
    9. Add glowey bits (ok you don't have to do this... but come on who doens't like glowey bits!)

    Hope this helps man. I'd be able to give a few more pointers if you posted your flats and your uv layout.

    Lastly, you're a brave man using a mouse to paint... get that tablet quick!

    - Cheers
    stoneplatformpaintover.jpg
    stoneplatformnoglowy.jpg
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 14
    Thanks Vcortis for the details advice. For some reason my Photoshop map got corrupted :( I tried opening and it said "Not a vaild photoshop format" or something like that :/ but this was good training in any case, heck I will probably paint it again when I get my tablet (should get it either Monday or Tuesday in mail I hope) I will totally keep everything in mind for when I redo the texture...

    Portfolio.png

    That shows the unwrap, I was stupid to start at 512 instead of making it higher res and downscaling. Its all in learning.
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