Awesome news Gamebryo is indeed a very flawed engine, despite it's many positives. The AI is very glitchy. Animations are all hand-generated segments (no mocap), which makes it look very stiff and awkward. Here's hoping they've updated the engine, or put the old girl to sleep.
err, not sure how the engine decides whether you can use mocap or not :-P that's more of a $$$ issue. Same with AI, I believe they developed their "Radiant AI" system.
after doing some snooping I found tech demos showing image metrics doing kickass facial animation in gamebryo, as well as DMM being used with it. So I guess the issue isn't so much Gamebryo as it is Bethesda.
err, not sure how the engine decides whether you can use mocap or not :-P that's more of a $$$ issue. Same with AI, I believe they developed their "Radiant AI" system.
also, the amount of hand captured (keyframed) animation done on LOTR films shows that keyframing is still a very viable, effective, and "good looking" way of doing it. as long as it's done well.
after doing some snooping I found tech demos showing image metrics doing kickass facial animation in gamebryo, as well as DMM being used with it. So I guess the issue isn't so much Gamebryo as it is Bethesda.
Exactly, but it's an super old myth that gamebryo has been the thing holding the flawless bethesda back, so much that they'll probably announce their own engine now (even if based on the gamebryo codebase) to avoid some of that bad name.
It probably isn't the best engine, but the flaws we've seen in the elderscrolls games have always been because of bethesda themselves.
Don't make me pull out the horse woman lead character artist making of video again, I feel bad about it every time.
Exactly, but it's an super old myth that gamebryo has been the thing holding the flawless bethesda back, so much that they'll probably announce their own engine now (even if based on the gamebryo codebase) to avoid some of that bad name.
Agreed. People tend to forget that Bethesda was always famous for making games that are awesome in scope but buggy as hell. And that was way before they even made Morrwoind; there's a reason why Daggerfall was also known as Buggerfall.
However, they are no longer a small studio but a big AAA player; I'm sure they know that if they want to compete on a global level they will need to deal with the technical issues sooner or later.
Hopefully they have, the structure of the engine behind the games is good in theory, but stuff is buggy. Maybe they have really planned to fix that while keeping the plugin architecture (which I also imagine helps in development, since they can work with different files in the same world at the same time)
And I also hope they've infused a bit of new talent into the company, especially in the animation and character department.
man i sure do love Bethesda and their games. Really loved marrowwind and oblivion, but I might be the only one here that hates the Elder Scrolls universe. its feels like a watered down tolkien fantasy universe. They do have some really cool creatures, some cool locations, but as a cohesive whole it just never stuck with me.
Anyone else?
man i sure do love Bethesda and their games. Really loved marrowwind and oblivion, but I might be the only one here that hates the Elder Scrolls universe. its feels like a watered down tolkien fantasy universe. They do have some really cool creatures, some cool locations, but as a cohesive whole it just never stuck with me.
Anyone else?
Maybe as much as any high fantasy setting, maybe a bit more with oblivion, but morrowind had a fantastic totally non-tolkien setting, with a great story.
man i sure do love Bethesda and their games. Really loved marrowwind and oblivion, but I might be the only one here that hates the Elder Scrolls universe. its feels like a watered down tolkien fantasy universe. They do have some really cool creatures, some cool locations, but as a cohesive whole it just never stuck with me.
Anyone else?
That has nothing to do with the universe or lore, it has to do with Bethesda. Cyrodiil (where Oblivion was set in) was actually described as a large jungle, but they decided to go with the generic high-fantasy setting. The actual universe has great diversity and large political power struggles but none of that translated into TES IV at all.
I consider Oblivion a huge disappointment with its largely generic world (both in design and depth), poor storyline and dialog, and heavy level-scaling that took all the reason to explore out of the game. Fallout 3 was a step up but still far behind Morrowind in RPG terms. Hopefully they learned from FO3, saw what a great RPG can be in New Vegas and push themselves a little more this time around.
Interesting read, maybe the landscape changed after the years? Oblivion was set many years after Morrowind, who knows why they changed it up. I never knew that though, thanks for the read.
man i sure do love Bethesda and their games. Really loved marrowwind and oblivion, but I might be the only one here that hates the Elder Scrolls universe. its feels like a watered down tolkien fantasy universe. They do have some really cool creatures, some cool locations, but as a cohesive whole it just never stuck with me.
Anyone else?
why do you say that you love these games, then?
i love it bla bla, but i hate it bla bla.
Exactly, but it's an super old myth that gamebryo has been the thing holding the flawless bethesda back, so much that they'll probably announce their own engine now (even if based on the gamebryo codebase) to avoid some of that bad name.
It probably isn't the best engine, but the flaws we've seen in the elderscrolls games have always been because of bethesda themselves.
Indeed. How many games have been released on Gamebryo? Lets see... their website says over 200 and there are plenty of graphically intensive ones amongst them. I don't particularly deride Bethesda for the limitations of their tech. These things are always far more complex than they appear from the outside.
But what makes it painful is no animations for diagonal run/walk cycle, or even up/down hill.
I believe anyone can tell you that those things have nothing to do with the engine.
I've seen the "gamebryo" trend taken to the extremes, like blaming gameplay on gamebryo, blaming gameplay related crashes to gamebryo, blaming facegen related things at gamebryo.
Animations are due to bethesda, the many gameplay-related crashes are due to the lack of Q&A on a sandbox title on bethesdas side, any poor art is also related to bethesda, and facegen related uglyness is not even close to being gamebryo related, since it's not even a part of gamebro.
The featureset, the visual-feature budget(like lack of shadows), and whatever tools the devs have to work with, that I could blame on gamebryo.
So yes I get it, gamebryo is not a fantastic engine, but if you want to say something about it, read up on it, and ask the question "is this content-related or engine-related" or it might end up as "noo, dont use unreal engine again, I can't take another brown game!"
or it might end up as "noo, dont use unreal engine again, I can't take another brown game!"
But with this you almost made my heart explode. I HATE when people say that thing; even the press seems to believe that crap. It's almost as bad as referring to all gamedevs as programmers.
New is a codeword for "we replaced a lot of stuff" not "its from scratch" :P
They're unlikely to replace every single tool and system they've built since morrowind, but it's now for certain they're replacing the rendering engine.
They certainly know how to dance around the question.
Well, gamebryo has somehow become synonymous to aids, people will step on the mouth-breather train if they mentioned that they still use parts of their own engine.
I'm happy though, we're going to see the same plugin-architecture and flexible open world tools, good day for modding.
Well, gamebryo has somehow become synonymous to aids, people will step on the mouth-breather train if they mentioned that they still use parts of their own engine.
I'm happy though, we're going to see the same plugin-architecture and flexible open world tools, good day for modding.
Which means more quests, models, new worlds perhaps, endless fun for creativity
Haha, I will be certainly joining the modding fun once it gets released. After all, Morrowind was what eventually got me interested in all that games development crap.
Replies
err, not sure how the engine decides whether you can use mocap or not :-P that's more of a $$$ issue. Same with AI, I believe they developed their "Radiant AI" system.
also, the amount of hand captured (keyframed) animation done on LOTR films shows that keyframing is still a very viable, effective, and "good looking" way of doing it. as long as it's done well.
Exactly, but it's an super old myth that gamebryo has been the thing holding the flawless bethesda back, so much that they'll probably announce their own engine now (even if based on the gamebryo codebase) to avoid some of that bad name.
It probably isn't the best engine, but the flaws we've seen in the elderscrolls games have always been because of bethesda themselves.
Don't make me pull out the horse woman lead character artist making of video again, I feel bad about it every time.
(ps: I love the elderscrolls game)
Agreed. People tend to forget that Bethesda was always famous for making games that are awesome in scope but buggy as hell. And that was way before they even made Morrwoind; there's a reason why Daggerfall was also known as Buggerfall.
However, they are no longer a small studio but a big AAA player; I'm sure they know that if they want to compete on a global level they will need to deal with the technical issues sooner or later.
And I also hope they've infused a bit of new talent into the company, especially in the animation and character department.
Anyone else?
Maybe as much as any high fantasy setting, maybe a bit more with oblivion, but morrowind had a fantastic totally non-tolkien setting, with a great story.
I consider Oblivion a huge disappointment with its largely generic world (both in design and depth), poor storyline and dialog, and heavy level-scaling that took all the reason to explore out of the game. Fallout 3 was a step up but still far behind Morrowind in RPG terms. Hopefully they learned from FO3, saw what a great RPG can be in New Vegas and push themselves a little more this time around.
Wait I thought that Elsweyr and Valenwood were the jungles, Cryodiil is like the generic, we got it all here type land.
Quick read:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/read_article.php?topic_id=26030634&union_id=11961
Interesting read, maybe the landscape changed after the years? Oblivion was set many years after Morrowind, who knows why they changed it up. I never knew that though, thanks for the read.
i love it bla bla, but i hate it bla bla.
http://elderscrolls.com
Animators, not animationsystem
This too
But what makes it painful is no animations for diagonal run/walk cycle, or even up/down hill.
I believe anyone can tell you that those things have nothing to do with the engine.
I've seen the "gamebryo" trend taken to the extremes, like blaming gameplay on gamebryo, blaming gameplay related crashes to gamebryo, blaming facegen related things at gamebryo.
Animations are due to bethesda, the many gameplay-related crashes are due to the lack of Q&A on a sandbox title on bethesdas side, any poor art is also related to bethesda, and facegen related uglyness is not even close to being gamebryo related, since it's not even a part of gamebro.
The featureset, the visual-feature budget(like lack of shadows), and whatever tools the devs have to work with, that I could blame on gamebryo.
So yes I get it, gamebryo is not a fantastic engine, but if you want to say something about it, read up on it, and ask the question "is this content-related or engine-related" or it might end up as "noo, dont use unreal engine again, I can't take another brown game!"
Thank you.
But with this you almost made my heart explode. I HATE when people say that thing; even the press seems to believe that crap. It's almost as bad as referring to all gamedevs as programmers.
New is a codeword for "we replaced a lot of stuff" not "its from scratch" :P
They're unlikely to replace every single tool and system they've built since morrowind, but it's now for certain they're replacing the rendering engine.
Well, gamebryo has somehow become synonymous to aids, people will step on the mouth-breather train if they mentioned that they still use parts of their own engine.
I'm happy though, we're going to see the same plugin-architecture and flexible open world tools, good day for modding.
Which means more quests, models, new worlds perhaps, endless fun for creativity