The US can't fight another war especially one that will be backed by China and possibly Russia, so forget it. Call the troops home and start building vaults heh.
If you go by the recent wikileaks, China isnt that happy with N. Korea and Russia has better things to do like exploiting its population.
China is pissed, because NK pisses off china's cash cow.
It's not like it takes much to keep the North Korean war machine rolling, they just need food and money which would be easy for China and Russia to hand over without actively supporting the military.
Mostly their support would come in the form of just not going along on everything the US says they should do... which is strangling their population and cutting off just about anything that would contribute to growth inside NK. If the US was not running down NK and vilifying them, or if the US's voice was for whatever reason diminished, China and Russia would probably be more likely to funnel "humanitarian" aid to NK.
Wikileaks also points out that not everyone follows the US blindly on everything but only when its in their best interest to do so (shocking I know). With the voice of the US shrinking its getting easier and easier to just not give a crap about they're complaining about.
North Korea is far from any country. Even China feels like "whoa free world!" when you return from North Korea.
In NK people can not travel - at all. This means domestic travel. Foreign travel is totally out of the option, and if you're lucky you can visit the Chinese border town once in your life and then your family will be held ransom to ensure your return. You cannot leave your town or your village without permit. There are virtually no cars outside Pyongyang. There are no machines for farming. Things like plastic fans (it gets hot in the summer!), bicycles, umbrellas, flashlights are prized possessions. Meat, chocolate, candy is not common for regular people. They are not allowed to get outside news. Even watching Chinese TV from their "closest" ally is forbidden. Fleeing the country is not an option - if you flee, your entire family will be put in a KZ style labour camp and people will be forced to divorce.
There's almost no shops, there just black market economy. The NK made goods are of a quality that's even shitty by eastern European standards. And the whole country runs just on two themes - the North Korean War and "how awesomely NK "beat" the US" and the deal leader. Almost all music, all news, all books are in some way about those two topics.
I've been to North Korea this summer and it's terrifying to see that a place with such absolute control of its people still exists in the world. What's also quite terrifying is what religious devotion people show to their leaders (and the cash they spend on maintaining their "temples"), may it be fake or not. But then again the majority has absolutely no idea at all of the outside world and they just don't know any better.
The place is totally run down. If it ever collapses there's be 20 million people who just want to get out, and rebuilding the shitty infrastructure will make rebuilding eastern Germany look easy. China has no interest in that, and many South Koreans don't find the idea very fun either.
If the thread is necroed, I may as well post something relevant, and interesting.
I find these pictures to be inspirational, from an artistic standpoint;
Otherwise bizzare, and bleak. It's an odd nation. http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernbeisser/
The US can't fight another war especially one that will be backed by China and possibly Russia, so forget it. Call the troops home and start building vaults heh.
China will never attack the U.S. directly, there is too much money at risk for their country (and the U.S. the other way around). Russia is currently Americas ally if I recall, and on top of that still militarily bankrupt.
The U.S. is definitely in a pickle right now, with Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, and the soon-to-be war with Mexico (drug cartels).
Whats worse is North Korea supposedly selling nuclear technology to Iran. And after those documents were leaked it seems that alot of middle eastern leaders are very concerned and would prefer the U.S. take action before something happens.
Add that to the list above...
Im curious as to what this will build up to be in say 2-3 years.
Also I thought it was established that China was ready to ditch North Korea in the event of a conflict, because of the bad press they're causing?
I don't remember where I read that.
I'd be surprised if anyone really knows what's going on inside NK.
Apparently even Kim needs to be shown around... http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/
Honesty, people fake reports about productivity so they don't get punished, and this starts way down the hierarchy, so anything that ends up in the actual government is the same made up numbers as in the old soviet union and eastern bloc. Basically nobody has a clue except a select few.
Thanks for sharing, Kwramm. I've been building a picture folder on my computer filled with pictures of North Korea. It's really an interesting place to me, mostly in that it's the closest place to the old Soviet union currently in existence, as far as I can tell. I've always been really interested in the way that Dictoatorships, communism, and other such things work, and affect people/the enviroment around them. Like in all the pictures from the Flickr account i've posted, it's this barren place, devoid of much plant life, most trees and grass are dead, save for the few planted by the side of the roads to make everything look nicer. Also, in one of the pictures, there is a shrine to Kim Jong, and it's surrounded by bright, green trees, but other than that, all the vegetation is brown and dead. The picture itself is very telling of how the country actually is;
Everything close to 'Great Leader' is nice, green, and healthy. The people under him are more well fed, and the further you go from him, the worse it gets.
seriously, is there anything that guy can't look at?
It's just fascinating how the presentation and media can influence the very thoughts of people. I'd say old Kim's kicked every other dictator's ass straight off the planet with that personality cult he's got going on over there.
yeah, the personality cult over there is the most bizarre. In most songs you somewhere hear his or his father's name. Pictures of him are everywhere. Everyone MUST have a picture of him in their home, with no other pictures on the same wall (this gets enforced!). People wear a pin with his image on their clothing where their heart is. When there's power outages, diesel generators make sure statues and propaganda images are still lit.
There's a HUGE (almost airport size) mausoleum for his father (who is the real star), with full aircon (normal people do not have this), with transportation belts (like in an airport). It's spotlessly clean, full of marble. People get let there en-masse to see the corpse of Kim Il Sung - the Lenin mausoleum is really small compared to this.
As visitor you must bow to various statues of Kim Il sung (the father). There's even a wax figure you have to bow to, you know, because it's just so life like. And the north koreans are super duper serious about all this.
You can not fold any newspaper if the fold may go over his person. You must fold it somewhere else. You cannot get images of him get dirty. You cannot throw such newspapers away either if there's an image of Kim. We were told to leave them in the hotel and the staff would dispose of them in the proper manner.
Oh and there's also a huge ass museum where all the gifts he received (from $1 cheapo knick knack to golden kalashnikovs). the place is also the size of a medium size airport and runs forever deep inside a mountain.
I think it's amazing that Americans get so self-righteous about knocking North Korea when the US has similar levels of hunger, poverty, lack of civil-liberties, and vastly higher percentage in prison.
Oh but N Koreans can't have ipads, guess that's super important or something.
Just so you know that was the video description on Netflix those are not exactly my opinions.
It's easy to forget in all the ruckus that North Korea still consists mainly of regular people that lead regular everyday lives to the best of their extents, that have their own hopes, wishes and dreams, and are probably not being policed personally on a day to day basis.
It's hard to imagine them having a day off, sitting in the grass or even falling in love when all you hear is about their aggression and indoctrination to become robots.
That's not to say the country isn't fucked up to an almost unrivaled, massive degree. I truly hope that North Korea can become free one day, without the need of a bigger armed conflict.
China will never attack the U.S. directly, there is too much money at risk for their country (and the U.S. the other way around). Russia is currently Americas ally if I recall, and on top of that still militarily bankrupt.
And if the dollar becomes worthless or America takes on so much debt that people start to think that they can't replay it? Ireland, Greece, Portugul, Spain... they are going through this and lucky for them Germany is picking up the tab (which won't last much longer). The US doesn't have anyone to do that so far the US has tried to dig itself out of debt... by taking on more debt... It's not too hard to imagine that people will stop buying US debt.
Whats worse is North Korea supposedly selling nuclear technology to Iran. And after those documents were leaked it seems that alot of middle eastern leaders are very concerned and would prefer the U.S. take action before something happens.
Yes please, America live up to your global cop obligations and police everyone.
Everyone would love for the US to keep running around half cocked getting in fights and brawling in the street. Not only does it keep the focus off the crap they do, keep the violence aimed at the US, and if the US actually does succeed at making the world a better place, they share the benefits with very little effort. to to keep going on expending their blood and treasure so they can sit back and complain about how oppressive the US.
GWB standing up in front of the UN and saying "we're going it alone" took all the pressure off of everyone else to act. Tax cuts and start two wars... brilliant.
I'm not pro North-Korea in anyway, but I do believe the US and the South are creating a political climate in which it would be okay for them to invade or attack. I'm sure they won't tho, as it would be quite disastrous for the South, even if they did win in the end. Don't forget that Seoul is within range from North Korean artillery.
I think they are just trying to get the support of China, and as a result isolate the North completely.
It started with the whole torpedo accident, which to me seemed fabricated:
Whoa... I missed this thread when it started and it I'm surprised it's still going.
It's been de-railed, people getting bitchy, and more importantly... It's not even about 3D or game-art.
Nuking from orbit... It's the only way to be sure.
Replies
If you go by the recent wikileaks, China isnt that happy with N. Korea and Russia has better things to do like exploiting its population.
It's not like it takes much to keep the North Korean war machine rolling, they just need food and money which would be easy for China and Russia to hand over without actively supporting the military.
Mostly their support would come in the form of just not going along on everything the US says they should do... which is strangling their population and cutting off just about anything that would contribute to growth inside NK. If the US was not running down NK and vilifying them, or if the US's voice was for whatever reason diminished, China and Russia would probably be more likely to funnel "humanitarian" aid to NK.
Wikileaks also points out that not everyone follows the US blindly on everything but only when its in their best interest to do so (shocking I know). With the voice of the US shrinking its getting easier and easier to just not give a crap about they're complaining about.
In NK people can not travel - at all. This means domestic travel. Foreign travel is totally out of the option, and if you're lucky you can visit the Chinese border town once in your life and then your family will be held ransom to ensure your return. You cannot leave your town or your village without permit. There are virtually no cars outside Pyongyang. There are no machines for farming. Things like plastic fans (it gets hot in the summer!), bicycles, umbrellas, flashlights are prized possessions. Meat, chocolate, candy is not common for regular people. They are not allowed to get outside news. Even watching Chinese TV from their "closest" ally is forbidden. Fleeing the country is not an option - if you flee, your entire family will be put in a KZ style labour camp and people will be forced to divorce.
There's almost no shops, there just black market economy. The NK made goods are of a quality that's even shitty by eastern European standards. And the whole country runs just on two themes - the North Korean War and "how awesomely NK "beat" the US" and the deal leader. Almost all music, all news, all books are in some way about those two topics.
I've been to North Korea this summer and it's terrifying to see that a place with such absolute control of its people still exists in the world. What's also quite terrifying is what religious devotion people show to their leaders (and the cash they spend on maintaining their "temples"), may it be fake or not. But then again the majority has absolutely no idea at all of the outside world and they just don't know any better.
The place is totally run down. If it ever collapses there's be 20 million people who just want to get out, and rebuilding the shitty infrastructure will make rebuilding eastern Germany look easy. China has no interest in that, and many South Koreans don't find the idea very fun either.
Interesting conversation though...
I find these pictures to be inspirational, from an artistic standpoint;
Otherwise bizzare, and bleak. It's an odd nation.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernbeisser/
The U.S. is definitely in a pickle right now, with Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, and the soon-to-be war with Mexico (drug cartels).
Whats worse is North Korea supposedly selling nuclear technology to Iran. And after those documents were leaked it seems that alot of middle eastern leaders are very concerned and would prefer the U.S. take action before something happens.
Add that to the list above...
Im curious as to what this will build up to be in say 2-3 years.
I don't remember where I read that.
Apparently even Kim needs to be shown around... http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/
Honesty, people fake reports about productivity so they don't get punished, and this starts way down the hierarchy, so anything that ends up in the actual government is the same made up numbers as in the old soviet union and eastern bloc. Basically nobody has a clue except a select few.
actually here's my impressions ..then again I only saw the "nice" sides. But still, being able to read between the lines paints a quite bleak picture. shameless plug: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29075182@N08/collections/72157624759464697/
Everything close to 'Great Leader' is nice, green, and healthy. The people under him are more well fed, and the further you go from him, the worse it gets.
seriously, is there anything that guy can't look at?
It's just fascinating how the presentation and media can influence the very thoughts of people. I'd say old Kim's kicked every other dictator's ass straight off the planet with that personality cult he's got going on over there.
There's a HUGE (almost airport size) mausoleum for his father (who is the real star), with full aircon (normal people do not have this), with transportation belts (like in an airport). It's spotlessly clean, full of marble. People get let there en-masse to see the corpse of Kim Il Sung - the Lenin mausoleum is really small compared to this.
As visitor you must bow to various statues of Kim Il sung (the father). There's even a wax figure you have to bow to, you know, because it's just so life like. And the north koreans are super duper serious about all this.
You can not fold any newspaper if the fold may go over his person. You must fold it somewhere else. You cannot get images of him get dirty. You cannot throw such newspapers away either if there's an image of Kim. We were told to leave them in the hotel and the staff would dispose of them in the proper manner.
Oh and there's also a huge ass museum where all the gifts he received (from $1 cheapo knick knack to golden kalashnikovs). the place is also the size of a medium size airport and runs forever deep inside a mountain.
Just so you know that was the video description on Netflix those are not exactly my opinions.
Fantastic collection, bookmarked.
It's easy to forget in all the ruckus that North Korea still consists mainly of regular people that lead regular everyday lives to the best of their extents, that have their own hopes, wishes and dreams, and are probably not being policed personally on a day to day basis.
It's hard to imagine them having a day off, sitting in the grass or even falling in love when all you hear is about their aggression and indoctrination to become robots.
That's not to say the country isn't fucked up to an almost unrivaled, massive degree. I truly hope that North Korea can become free one day, without the need of a bigger armed conflict.
Yes please, America live up to your global cop obligations and police everyone.
Everyone would love for the US to keep running around half cocked getting in fights and brawling in the street. Not only does it keep the focus off the crap they do, keep the violence aimed at the US, and if the US actually does succeed at making the world a better place, they share the benefits with very little effort. to to keep going on expending their blood and treasure so they can sit back and complain about how oppressive the US.
GWB standing up in front of the UN and saying "we're going it alone" took all the pressure off of everyone else to act. Tax cuts and start two wars... brilliant.
I think they are just trying to get the support of China, and as a result isolate the North completely.
It started with the whole torpedo accident, which to me seemed fabricated:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/23/world/la-fg-korea-torpedo-20100724
It's been de-railed, people getting bitchy, and more importantly... It's not even about 3D or game-art.
Nuking from orbit... It's the only way to be sure.