Community Made MMORPG
Crimson Haze is a community built MMORPG. The goal being to assemble the artists, writers, musicians, actors, programmers and game designers of the world for one giant project. Literally made by the people, for the people. Serving as a game we all want to play, and simultaneously proof of our collective talent in each of our respective fields. Thousands of pieces of portfolio art, animations and music are made each year, why not put them in something, and make a game that is greater than the sum of its parts?
Crimson Haze will be work, it will be play, and it will be a community phenomenon.
I've been writing game design documents since the age of ten, and drawing monsters since the age of three (crayon on walls). It is my unwavering dream to be a game designer, but not just that. Because I love to make a large variety of art: written, 3d, 2d, musical, I'd really like to be a jack of all trades. This opportunity no longer exists in major game companies. This coupled with the difficulty I've faced trying to get a game design job, is why I'm spearheading my own game. But instead of putting together a small team that will most likely fall apart when they lose interest or time, I will use a massive team, over a long span of time to make a game unlike any other.
It should also be no surprise that this different form of development, design, and management has intrinsic potential. When people with good ideas, meet people with other good ideas, they become great ideas.
It's my belief that every reader is a writer, every art lover an artist, every movie goer a director, and every gamer, a designer. But not until the internet has there been an invention that can truly unite every mind on the planet to collectively create a single, gigantic and amazing work of art.
Let's be the first.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wPjcdDz1J0[/ame]http://crimsonhaze.maxforum.org/
Replies
Amaze us with your brilliance.
Interesting idea, and best of luck.
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I'm just worried that this project may be a bit to large and extended, and it will take a long long time, and that you find that artists would likely loose interest after a while if they don't see the project moving along.
I'm not saying it's going to be impossible, but it will require alot of work from the leader(assuming it's you?) and possible telling people what to do. If someone joins, ask them what they do, what they would want to do, and assign a task.
And i have to say, that forum is super intimidating. 8 forums and 74?(i know it's around 70) sub forums
It's better to start smaller with a few core features, and once those have been achieved, expand, add new ones etc.
Minecraft is a very good example of this.
But in all honesty, good luck with this, quite keen to see how you approach it, and how it progresses.
I agree with you Alemja, and also with kaptainkernals. There used to be a game simply called "Project Offset", which was shaping up to be one of the best games ever built. It was a small team of 20 or so people and I'm not sure why, but Intel bought the rights to their engine. Intel being a huge company everyone thought that this game will come out sooner than we thought!
What I'm getting at is that Intel made it so that people on the internet could give them models that they would implement in the game. It started out somewhat good, but now the project is dead. I think the original team is working on something else (Fractiv LLC)but who knows....
They even changed the website to this... http://software.intel.com/en-us/visual-computing/
Their engine was to amazing to have this done to it.. I wonder how they feel.. The engine was aparently bought by Red 5 Studio, for their upcoming MMO, Firefall. To he honest, not to sure about whats going on there.
I guess having having a small team will be better, since when you involve the community, this might occur. Although no one really knows... we can only make judgments from past events.
If you have a strong idea of what you want, I would love to contribute some models.
Edit: At a loss of words.. here's Firefall. Those crawling creatures look VERY similar to the ones in Borderlands.
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yeah, thats a product of poor management, lack of vision, and allowing every single different piece of art to become concept art.
I think one of the biggest challenges with a project like this is maintaining a kind of consistency between the 100's of different people that may contribute something. I obviously can't make a 6 year old's stick figure official concept art, and make a model ripped out of a WoW MPQ an in game model. This is where having a manager will help this project. If there is just a mishmash of ideas and people telling each other what to do, and no hierarchy of command, nothing will get done.
Thanks Elrrah
@Emil
Yeah, I just wanted really good organization for everything, and I'll take any tips on how to make it even more organized if anyone's got them...
Thanks Emil
@Kaptainkernals
Great video man! I hadn't seen this before I started this idea, but it's kind of proof of concept for what I want to do. I agree that pooling ideas together, freely, globally, can only better mankind and enhance every aspect of our lives.
As far as your concerns of it surviving, I'll repost my post regarding a related comment on GameDev.net.
Thanks Kaptainkernals
@Alemja
Then I guess I just haven't found the right programmer and artist. I've tried, believe me I've tried, more locally than over the web, and I just keep failing.
I wouldn't mind some of those management suggestions! Thanks for your help Alemja.
@XenoKratios
Ahhh, the dangers of selling out. This game will never be something that can be bought or sold. I doubt a company would ever pick it up even if it started to garner momentum and public interest, simply too much paper work and tracking who made what! I don't intend to make money off of this directly. I might get some good portfolio pieces, I might get some industry recognition, and that's really all I want.
I also want people to be able to freely contribute and play this game. As the game grows maybe contributions will be the monthly fee, or something cool like that. I really think games like WoW or Everquest or even FPS's would really take the industry to the next level if they had customization and player made content like Spore, or this project.
@Everyone Thanks so much for not just trolling this. Every person contributed something reasonable and meaningful, and that gives me hope.
As far as advice for art & content here's mine: Reduce, Re-use, Recycle! Every asset made has to get a butt-load of use, re-use textures as much as possible. A small team doesn't have the luxury of making every town have unique architecture: make 3-4 medieval houses and use them throughout the whole game! Look at Oblivion: they used the same ruins & dungeon sets throughout the whole game, they just wrote a back-story saying they were all built by the same ancient race of people.
Well Justin, I've been trying to work on smaller projects. First an XNA shmup for dream build play, then a single player action rpg, then a small android game, and several projects that I joined up with as an artist. They've all failed. I've had a lot of trouble finding people that have as much drive as I do. So other than making a clone of myself that likes math and can program, this seems like the next best option.
This new project will welcome abandonment with open arms, if someone joins up, makes one model for the game, and leaves, that's perfectly fine. That's a luxury that simply does not exist in a commercial game title. People are making portfolio pieces anyways, that's not going to stop, so why not use them in a game!?
I admire your ideas achillesian, but the project just seems HUGE. A smaller oblivion type dungeon crawler would be more fun and much easier to make, not just for you, but also for the community.
There is always a place for more content, thats inevitable for most games today, since people long for more gameplay for the titles they love.
Just something to think about I guess, before this is all blown up.
Please consider this advice, although not asked for. The answer to a string of failed smaller projects is not a huge projects, it's an ever smaller project.
I'll write more on this subject later as I've work to do now. But I assure you I know how you feel, and your best bet is to go smaller, not bigger.
I would love to help you in a smaller, much more unique game, rather than a huge WoW like game.
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What is the difference? With either project I get evidence of my design skills, more portfolio pieces, and experience. As per the suggestions of other polycounters, this is exactly what I need to be doing.
My new project fulfills these basic needs, but it also tackles something else, something significantly more valuable than just portfolio fodder; recognition. To my knowledge, something like this has never been done before, and resulted in success.
Outcomes:
Success:thumbup::thumbup:
If it takes off and becomes popular, and people all around the world begin to help me build an amazing game, I get press, I get a name, I'm now a game designer people have heard of. I finish my degree. I have a chance at getting a job.
Failure:thumbup:
Nobody ever helps me, I sit alone in my room for 4 years and make the game myself, get a shit-ton more portfolio pieces than I expected, I have a game under my belt that runs, that I made. I finish my degree. I have a chance at getting a job.
Either of these outcomes makes me happy, and ultimately follows the instruction given to me by my parents and fellow polycounters in my digipen thread.
Thanks for your advice though Peterk
@XenoKratios
I don't intend for this to be a WoW-clone. Just like Cliffy B. didn't intend for Gears of War to be a Kill.Switch or RE4 clone. I take the good ideas and drop kick the bad.
Anyways, good luck with whatever you do
Listen to me carefully, If you want a job in the industry; create small games that show you're a problem solver and critical thinker. Learn what you can prioritize and spend time on, features that matter and features that don't to make the best possible products within the time scope. Use Scirra Construct and make awesome games, if you have a knack for it you will get job _easily_ if you don't, you've just wasted 4 years of your life doing the insurmountable task of creating an mmo without experience.
Excuse me, you sound extremely naive and blue-eyed to the problem. You even know how much money is spent solely on Server farms to sustain players? No, you can't host it in your bedroom. What is your production schedule? Your vertical slice? What's your player churn rate to break even financially? If you've started with making a story and artwork, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. If you think you know what it takes, you don't, simply because it is not doable for a single person to know what it takes. If you think somehow you are a superhuman who actually can -- You're delusional. Why am I being this harsh? Because I know how it feels wanting to make that dream mmo so badly, I know that you think no matter what I say you can still do it. You can't and it will hinder you getting into the industry ......
Anyway -- sorry, just want to make sure you read this: Make small doable games, do plenty of them. Small stepping stones.
If you're still convinced that you can do it and that you will do it the coming 4 years then I will not stop you
Good Luck in any case...
~Björn
If you want to see an MMO that was done by one guy check out LOVE
He made some drastic choices to be able to make it himself: art is a huge chunk of the time budget so he decided to go abstract and chunky, there are no quests or voiceovers, it's basically a sandbox world.
Check out Minecraft, Notch has been working on it for about 2 years, people have estimated it has made him about $1 million after taxes so far and professional designers rave about Minecraft.
On the other hand there's the fan made Kings Quest sequel, i haven't tried it yet but I'm not super impressed, they had about 10 years of development on a single player point and click adventure game, about 1/10 of the scope of your project:
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Yeah, I considered that, however most of my strengths are in a design/management position. I simply don't have the skill to be a lead artist which is what the community aspect of the unofficial polycount project is looking for. My stuff would probably look so bad compared to the others, it wouldn't get used. And I doubt pc mods would want me to open another subforum for my project, which from the general consensus is doomed to failure.
Thanks for the suggestion though Snowfly.
@osman
Well osman, like I've said I've been trying to work on projects with other people, both projects I've designed and managed and projects where I just did art. I've yet to find a group devoted enough to stick with a project, and I end up being the last person working on it, and going nowhere. Again this is why this new project is made to facilitate abandonment. In my experience, it is simply not possible to motivate, or find people motivated, without money. Maybe this is a result of economic downturn, declining interest in making games... I don't know, I just know its not working. So I'm trying something new.
Thanks osman.
@cgmonkey
Your truthiness is refreshing, but its like you're missing the big picture. This isn't a commercial mmorpg, this isn't being made by a "team", this doesn't have a schedule, this isn't what you've been doing for the past 4 years.
This game won't be supporting a million players any time remotely soon or maybe ever, and dealing with a hundred players, or even 1000 isn't that expensive. Project 1999 supports about 600 players at all times average, and is completely ad/donation supported. Minions of Mirth does the same, and is supported by a 1 time fee premium version, ads and donations. Making direct connections to AAA mmorpg's is simply dumb. This isn't like them, and doesn't aim to be.
The pay2play system is dying, this is just the next nail in the coffin. WARonline has a free version, EQ2 has a free version, LOTRO has a free version, DDO has a free version, these games are dropping like flies. It's clear as day these games are losing clientele and losing money. If you work on any of these, I'd get out while you still can.
This genre needs something new and fresh. I want to give to MMORPG's what Spore gave to sp strategy; player made content.
Thanks for the read though cgmonkey, it's nice knowing what someone actually inside the industry thinks about this. Tell your friends!
@Justin_meisse
Yeah Justin I know I've set my goals high. In reading the Vanguard post mortems by Brad McQuaid I really got a feeling of sadness, an EPIC amount of content and gameplay mechanics were cut out of the game, and basically brought the game to its knees, turning it into just another mmo when it could've been so much more. Because of time, money and publisher constraints the game was dumbed-down into something I consider uninteresting and almost unplayable, and the internet community agrees. They're down to 2 servers and its still hard to find people to play with.
This project isn't just something to help me get portfolio pieces, get recognized, and get a job. Its a dream, and one I will continue to work on long after I get into the industry, if I do at all. For a game designer, its not about the money or success, its about doing what you love.
And I unwaveringly, unquestioning, irrefutably, love designing games more than anything else in this world. I've been making board games, drawing uis, making level maps and drawing monsters since before I can remember.
Minecraft is quite impressive, and along with Spore is a major influence on this whole idea. Introducing player made content into games adds a sense of pride and love for a game that will hook players for days at a time. Seriously which elicits more pride and emotion in someone, painting a kickass mural in the middle of a city for people to enjoy, or winning a new cloak in a WoW raid. One inspires and transfigures people, and one just creates grief and jealousy.
Thanks for your continued interest and criticisms Justin.
I do like making games. I do like making game art, I just wish I was better at it. And I've yet to make a person, I think I'd rather adopt since so many people make people on accident and mistreat them.
I'm not sure where you got these ideas, but it may have something to do with your high school reading comprehension scores.
Maybe this thread should get past: don't do it and move on to: fuck it, he's going to do it regardless, how can we help or even: fuck it, he won't listen, there's no helping him, I'll stop posting.
also cgmonkey does make a good point about the cost of running the infrastructure to support an MMO, which seemed to have gone over your head completely. yet people are running their own private WOW servers which support of thousands of players. still not cheap, but appropriate to the scope you're shooting for.
i've worked on a couple of MMO's as well. without going into detail, it's a clusterfuck. you talk about building up your rep as a designer, yet you've set up a forum panhandling for ideas? the bullet points you've put on there are vague and pipe dreams at best, without any hint of how you plan to implement them so i suggest before cramming too many cooks in the kitchen build up a solid fundamental design on your own, but i have to warn you it's hard work and may take a few years....
but anyway, I'm done, adios.
Once you get a half way decent idea and business model break it down into a production tree.
IE
-concepting
-game design
-UI setup
-Engine Setup(more overhead here
-player controls
-game theory
-programmer toolsets (including dummy models/rigs for intitial setup)
Another aspect that goes along with this whole thing is finding people to do the work.
Move on to storytelling and its relation to player interaction:
-storyboards
-scripts
-player interaction and viewing theory (IE cutscenes or ingame triggers etc)
As this phase of production starts to near completion move on to iterating the Art pipeline on top of it.
IE
-Concepting again (model sheets/matte paintings etc)
-blockouts(have to make sure your art will fit well with the previously established game design}
-modeling/UVing (incorporate feedback from programmers/engine techs riggers and texture artists to ensure that the model is well optimized to current engine limitations and for best deformation pixel density etc)
-texturing (incorporate feedback from tech artists to make sure textures are optimized to display correctly with engine compression techniques and that your maps are supported by the engine toolset)
-Rigging (incorp feedback from tech artists again to insure that rig is compatible with engine)
-Animation (Incorp feedback yet again from tech artists to insure maximum quality on import into engine remember the engine will compress your animations on import so you will need to make sure that the export/import doesn't muddy up your animation work)
-Lighting and Post Processing This comes into play as various chunks of level work and scenes come together someone needs to be dedicated to bringing it all together in the editor and incorp lighting and effects at the same time
Compiling your project:
-Will the entire game be installed at once or will you stream certain aspects to the player as they progress in the game world?
Distribution: Will this be a published game through a company or distributed online (again more overhead)
Really there is a lot that goes into making a game and I think you could learn much more by taking a few aspects of various game genre's and developing them one at a time to learn the processes that each requires. I know you don't think you have the artistic abilities to create on your own but you won't get better unless you keep practicing.
For those 4 years did you actually spend 8-12 hrs a day on each project or was it more of a couple hrs here a little time spent there "oh no the project failed kind of thing"?
Yeah, sorry, one last thing: LOTRO and DDO went free to play because it made them more money than subscriptions. WAR is still pay to play, it's just the demo is based on level rather than amount of time you play. The free 2 play structure is huge in Asia, the numbers make the western MMO market look quaint in comparison although western MMOs did increase revenue to $1.8 Billion last year. The revenue from online games keep out-pacing analyst predictions
Yeah for a completely arbitrary reason; their player base dropped out. Yes they get more money now simply because they have more players, and some of those players are going to buy stuff.
Does DDO make as much average money as WoW per player? No. They didn't switch to the free2play model to make more money, they switched to survive.
Western players don't like the idea of paying for raid gear, and that doesn't seem to be changing soon. That's the only reason the Asian market gets a shit-ton of money, because those players are will to pay their way to the top. And many of those players spend more than 180 dollars per year on gear.
Yeah, I just haven't had luck with the team thing man, that's the whole idea behind this; eliminate the static team model. On free projects I have come to accept that people ARE GOING TO QUIT, its simply a fact of life. The only person I know who isn't going to quit, is me. This is my dream, so I'm the rock. Since you and cgmonkey seem to be focusing on the monetary costs for all of this, let me give you an idea of the phases this project will most likely endure and the time associated.
Those server costs and other costs won't be a concern for
awhile. These are approximations.
phase 1: Design
+backstory (1 month)
+gameplay design (10 months)
+style concept art (2 months)
+concept art (2 months)
phase 2: Planning
+gameplay design (1 month)
+more concept art (6 months)
+maps (6 months)
phase 3: Blocking
+block out world (2 months)
+gameplay design (2 months)
+single player gameplay programming (10 months)
+stress tests / specification discussion (2 months)
phase 4: Multiplayer *server fees begin for multiplayer stress tests
+multiplayer gameplay / server programming (6 months)
+stress tests / specification discussion (2 months)
+gameplay design (2 months)
phase 5: Assets
+character art (18 months)
+environmental art (14 months)
+voiceovers (3 months)
+gameplay design (2 months)
+continued programming (4 months)
phase 6: Alpha
+gameplay design (3 months)
+continued programming (3 months)
+stress tests / specification discussion (3 months)
phase 7: Open Beta
+gameplay design (x months)
+backstory (x months)
+concept art (x months)
+maps (x months)
+character art (x months)
+environmental art (x months)
+voiceovers (x months)
+continued programming (x months)
This is my projection on how long this might take with just me working on this. It could probably go faster or slower and various parts depending on how many people help me. Did I overshoot or undershoot?
Over 8.5 years to get to open beta on my own.
Thanks for more suggestions Snowfly, and admittedly I did start posting about this a bit early, I considered waiting until I had all the game design stuff done, but I thought open ing that up to the community early would only facilitate more, and interesting ideas.
@Justin_Meisse
Sorry you feel that way Justin, most of what you've given me so far has been fairly constructive imo. Don't take my continued interest and work on this project as an insult. Also, I just can't get mad at you, your avatar is too cute.
@PhattyEwok
Wow, now heres some great advice, you probably won't believe me but I made my game phase schedule up above before I read your post, and there are some major similarities. This gives me confidence.
As far as costs go, I really don't consider them a huge issue. UDK is free unless you make a certain amount of money through sales. Unity is free, unless you want extra features like realtime shadows (meh). Blender and Gimp and sculptris(was) are free. The only money I will make will be through ads or donations and once the game has enough popularity to HAVE a player base, those should SUPPORT the player base. And if it doesn't the game server and download server simply go down, until donations or ad revenue goes up.
Well, with projects I started, yes. I put a large amount of time into them and was always ahead of the other members. The projects that I have been leading have all been with my 2 cs major friends who goto the UW. Both very well equipped for the work we were trying to do, but always end up letting school, family, internships and other things higher on their priority lists get in the way. Even after I ask them each time before a project; will you have time,will you have time, will you have time, will you have time, will you have time.
As far as projects I joined with online, that I was not leading, its often drama between other members, or vacuous/ill equipped teams to begin with which seem to cause failure after failure.
Thanks PhattyEwok, you have some great information.
@Skulburn
Maybe I'm just not as lucky as you and all these other people who have found their dream teams. Regardless, this project will help me grow. I hope to get a large portfolio out of it, get some coding ability, make some friends, and have some fun.
Thanks for your words Skulburn.
You are not loosing anything, if you are going to invest at leas 4 years of your life, energy and money into mmorpg project, a month off won't do the harm.
If you are successful and finish it, you'll end up with more experience and a finished title, so you'll be able to find people easily and plan your project better.
If you fail, you'll know that undertaking such a huge task is a bad idea and 4 years of your life will be saved.
Exactly! How about a 'warm-up' project? At least do some stretching
Working on a MMO right now I can tell you there is no possible way this project ends up not a complete cluster fuck of unplayable crap. Why you are so set on wasting your time is beyond me.
If you take the same idea you have and scope it back to something more reasonable you could have a very successful game. It's good to be ambitious and driven to accomplish your goals, but you have to be realistic and not naive and ignorant.
You can't manage what you don't understand. Not well, anyway.
Okay, how should I go about finding a programmer?
I can handle some 3d and 2d art, enough to get by, but I'll need a programmer. I have several completed game design documents, games ready to be worked on. A short game focusing on gameplay probably would probably do me well. A short 2d game in gamemaker or that other gamemaking engine someone posted earlier in this thread.
Just understand I've had alot of failure with these kinds of projects. What's the best method for finding a devoted programmer for a short project?
Thanks Sandro
@Vcortis
Well, several commercial mmos launched as a "complete cluster fuck of unplayable crap", so I'll be happy if I get that far.
@Two Listen
I'll be working on this project regardless of how much help I get. I'm not just sitting around waiting for people to come make stuff. Seems like several of you got the idea I wouldn't be doing anything.
Good luck on your project, but I think it'll end poorly - if at all.
Same way you are going to find coder for mmorpg project maybe?
What I would do is clean up design doc (if you already have suitable one) so that it is well-structured, is easy to understand and fast to read without going too much into details. Then reinforce it with some art - level mockups, concepts and moodboards. If you can animate some gameplay features even better.
After your pitch is ready hit modding forums or TIGSource asking for programmer help. If you show that you mean business and are prepared you will attract couple of decent coders. If not, you will attract trolls and wannabees.
I think a good way to attract programmers would be to make this an open source project
A programmer who is skilled and experienced enough to do the incredibly complex job of working on an MMO is going to do so for one of two reasons. Either he is getting paid, or he is passionate about the project. You're absolutely not going to find a programmer worth his salt who wants to work on YOUR project, under YOUR guidelines for free. If he's working for free, he'd likely work on his own dream project.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1216036#post1216036
Cleaned up the doc, explained pretty much the entire game in a page. Should be fairly easy to read. No art yet, but I'll probably add some, especially if I don't get any bites.
Where else should I post this?
Learn computer programming.
The reason? Without being able to program the game (or at least any given part of it) yourself your project will always be at risk of failure if and when your programmer(s) lose interest or move on to greener (read: more $) pastures.
Let's face it here, a game is just a computer program with some art of varying quality glued on top of it. You want to make games? then you need to learn some programming. Luckily for you there are things like Unity that keep the programming relatively simple. You don't need to go all hardcore and become a C++ god coder to create a game these days, though it wouldn't hurt.
I think one reason you're getting a lot of aggressive attitude around here because most of us are production artists and we've all experienced it at least once: An "idea guy" who tries to get us to do tremendous amounts of work on their idea/project without actually contributing any tangible work themselves, usually while being treated poorly in the process.
We also don't want to see you fail again, and would rather see you complete a successful project and get more experience. The easiest/fastest/best way to do that is just to create a simple one or two month game project.
Well, best of luck with whatever you decide to do with your time and money.
The "idea guy" is exactly what I want to avoid becoming. Cliffy B, Brad Mcquaid, Molyneux and others entered the industry contributing something major to their games. For most of them it was programming. But in their most recent projects they're idea men, their workload is reduced to having meetings and saying yea or nay to everything that lands on their desk, and yeah its still difficult, but its not the hands on, balls deep creative experience it should be.
I want the project lead on a game team to be able to model, paint, rig and animate, script/code, write, write music, dance around in the mocap room, and fucking voice act. Granted not as well as each of the respective pros, but good enough to fill in where needed. Its just more practical.
/rant
seriously, you want to stop assuming what making games is like, and put more practical effort into spending time in a studio. It's only there that you'll pick up the right info, studio-career or indie-minded alike. Not ready for a full time job cos your skills aren't there? Try for an internship, even a week or two of work experience doing painful monkeywork. God, be a cleaner and cast your eyes and ears about.
Every kid seems to have this "I want to make my own MMO!" idea, not knowing how much work is required. There's a reason why Blizzard hires dozens of people whose full time job it is to take care of the servers and just be there for the community.
http://www.tigsource.com
http://www.indiegames.com/blog/
Here, that's where you start. Make a good flash game and get a reputation. You'd be surprised how hard it is.
Newsflash: Making games is incredibly hard. Making good games is even harder. Making an MMO through an online community... forget about it.
Btw: Your idea is generally worth jack shit. Unless you have a finished product and made some contributions to the industry, nobody gives a fuck about what you think would be a good idea.
PS: I'm usually cursing a lot, this post wasn't meant to attack you, but from what I read so far you're just another dude who has no experience worth talking about (or you would've talked about it), you're not an artist or a programmer and never released a game, so already you're in a pretty bad position.
This.
It's all about execution, not ideas.
Take it from us, we were all young and overly ambitious once:
THESE PROJECTS ALWAYS FAIL!
Ps: how old are you?
Take people's advice, and go small. Make a small game. It's harder than it seems, and it'll give you a bit of insight into just how ridiculous it is to think you'll be able to pull of a project of this massive scope on your own, with no experience.
Your programmer listing is also... lacking. If you're truly passionate about making something, throw a working prototype together in Unity. You'd be surprised how much easier it is to get some interest when there's something tangible for people to get their hands on. Next best thing would be mockups (this is doubly true of 2D pixel art game ideas). A page of just ideas is going to turn away all but the most inexperienced of people.
Seriously. Listen to the advice people are giving you.
edit:
I re-read your initial post, and this positively leaped out and clubbe me in the face: WHAT? That's just about the most amazing leap of logic I've seen in some time. No. Really.
"I really don't understand the logic leap of going from "I worked on some small projects and failed" to "I want to make a MASSIVE game""
How will a big project go better than a small!?
Making a good simple game is hard enough for a first project. getting it to be fun and worth playing would be an exceptional bit of experience and a great portfolio piece.
Thinking that you and some unexperienced folks you've never met can do what industry veterans fail at regularly is just silly. Look at tabula rasa, APB, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan.