Blocked out the base colours on the trike today along with a bit of detail on the front end.
Also took it into Unreal and had a play with some effects, I'm looking forward to that bit for sure. What you see however is just default UDK stuff and I intend to create something using Cascade eventually.
Really could do with some suggestions on the trike, to make it look... not crap. I'm kinda limited with texture space as to how detailed I can get with scratching / dirt but I should be able to make things more interesting than they are right now.
Hey there. This turned out great man . Is the jacket supposed to be leather? I am not sure what is it but it does not read as leather to me. Also I think it needs bigger pedals if not too late for that. For the trike frame - perhaps make it a bit darker and then boost up your specular that should make it brighter. Couple of stickers too You can see the huge amount of work you are putting in to this one good luck
Yep the jacket is supposed to be leather. I'm still working out the spec trying to get it to replicate leather well. Motorcycle jackets are typically not quite as shiny as a traditional 'wet-look' leather jacket, and have a much softer specular.
Pedals can be resized without problem so I'll look into that.
Stickers! Great idea thanks man!
Also I just noticed that glaring seam on the rear tyre. There's actually a million seams which I'm lucky I got away with on most parts of the trike since the entire thing is mirrored in halves, and quarters where possible. I'm hoping they stay less visible.
If you want a chrome material, you are going to need a much darker diffuse color, and a very high specular. Also you will need a cube map; A phong specular isn't good enough. For something perfectly mirror-like, you want it to be black. Here's an example I whipped up:
As far as I can tell, chrome isn't quite as reflective as a silvered mirror, so a very dark grey would be a good choice.
I really like what you've done with this, Tom, great work.
The only things that strike me are his hands seem a little small in the riding poses, but this might be a perspective issue. Also, his trike seems a little regular for a lil' Ghost Rider, considering how pimped the bike is in some versions of the character.
If you've got time, maybe think about making the trike a little more menacing? Obviously the scope is a little less, compared to a motorcycle, but there's still some room for some pimpin'.
ShadowBrain - Oops! Cheers for pointing that out. I think the alpha got screwed when I switched lighting on in the shader. It's two alpha'd planes back to back, both double sided so it's bound to cause some problems. It's all working fine in UDK though so it's not a problem.
Dan - Thanks man, appreciate the comments!
You're totally right, I did overlook the trike a little bit. Mainly this was down to my lack of planning. If I'm honest, I didn't expect things to go so well and the trike was kinda built as I went along. I should've spent more time in the concepting stage really to come up with something a little more exciting.
I'm pretty much out of triangles now and running out of time so for the competition entry, I probably won't change it. I do plan to revisit this later though outside of the comp and pimp things a little more. Give both assets a separate texture and add a bunch more Ghost Rider-esque detail to the trike.
Thanks Jeremy. Awww don't do paintovers!... makes me wanna go back and change it now!
I see what you mean, just changing those things makes him a lot more childlike.
Yeah he did seem to get older as the project progressed. I think part of that is down to me kinda warming to the idea of him being more teenage than toddler. One of those happy accidents. I originally intended for him to be like 5 or 6, but as things went on and he ended up looking older, I just kinda ran with it and I like how it turned out.
What teenager rides a tricycle? Personally, I've always felt your character was getting away from the original idea that was cool...I actually really like the paintover.
I've always felt your character was getting away from the original idea that was cool...
Speak up sooner then man!
Don't get me wrong, I like the paintover too, and yeah he would've looked cool as a toddler but I just felt he would've been riding a tiny little pushalong trike and I wanted the whole thing to have some presence.
Some of my main inspiration for the trike was in my original ref sheet... for example
Yeah I see what you mean. I suppose if I look at it now I do think 'yeah the jeans look cool, trike looks good etc' but if I'm brutally honest there is a bit of me that thinks the whole 'badass cutesy look' of him being a toddler woulda made him more likeable.
I guess it's down to my inexperience. It's a challenge in itself for me to make a character... let alone one that has characteristic appeal as well! Ah well; next time! It's all a learning curve.
There ore only really a few things that really pop to me that could use some edits.
- I'd change the tint of the skull a little to match the color of the fire a little more. It just gives the character a little more flavor and has been depicted in comics with the different colors on the skull.
- Doesn't read like a toddler, either a 10 - 12 year old kid or midget.
Thanks BlazeF, much appreciated. Thanks for the suggestions too, nice tip about the skull tint.
Jeremy - That tri-count includes the character/trike. The budget is 12k for the main character/usable props and unlimited for the pedestal (within reason).
But I would work on that fire a bit more if you have the time. It's not bad IMO, but the back tire could use that edge of the fire being broken up so that it doesn't have such a crisp line, and the fire on the front tire has a bit of a repeating scale pattern that really stands out.
Just my thoughts on improving something I think is already really good
I'll play with it a little to get it looking slightly more like the first. Fortunately it's pretty quick and simple to adjust the fire. It's just getting the right balance of it looking good without looking like an inferno that blocks out too much of the wheel.
I may lower the opacity a bit at the spawn point and see if that helps.
It's definitely wrapping up though. I've still got a week to submit too so plenty of time to finalize things.
It's been a lot of fun too, I'm incredibly happy with it, in all honesty it turned out a lot better than I thought it would! I've also learned a great deal too.
Wow, you finished a whole week ahead of time? That's like unheard of in the 3D community
One more idea (and the last thing I'll suggest). Maybe you could reverse the position of the fields of the background, so that the darker one is at the top and the lighter one is at the bottom? The smoke and cinder effect is kind of getting lost in the lightness of the background currently, and I think that's one of the cooler aspects of the shot, so it should be a bit more pronounced.
Heh yeah I know a lot of people don't get to finish but that's usually down to the fact they work all day and have to choose between a social life or a competition entry! Fortunately work was super quiet for me these last few weeks which gave me plenty of time to work on it. Otherwise I'd probably still be losing sleep and working away.
Nice idea about the backdrop thanks, I'll see how it looks switched up. I really like the smoke/cinders and you're totally right, they aren't as visible as they could be.
Good work man!, although I find the final background a bit too dark/rusty it feels busy and it's not giving enough focus to your final model imo. Also the texture in the pod is a little blurry. And probably you can spend some time on the fire, play with different orange/yellow tones to make it more vibrant, and also how it shadows on your model as well. Just a few thoughts!
I know the textures are blurry on there, I can't figure out how to get them looking any sharper. It's UDK's compression I think as I'm already using 2048 maps on it. It might be something I can change in UDK for the sake of cleaner presentation but I'm not sure how.
The background looks pretty bad without any kind of texture on it. It kinda makes the whole shot lose a bit of edge.
With the inverted colours, the fire/smoke looked more prominent, but it washed out the rest of the character a little in other places, especially in the non-UDK shots.
I switched the LOD on the texture of the base so that's clearer now, and also changed the lighting a little so more of a firey glow is visible on the character.
The placement and shape of the fires are nicer, but they're a bit too bright. Try using a pinch of red, some orange, a lot of yellow but hardly any white. You'll also want to up the contrast of your alphas a bit I think. Currently it comes off more as clouds than as fire.
If you want to submit the shots where he's standing, you might want to loosen up his pose a bit (unless that's against rules or smth) maybe with his arms folded or his hands in his pockets. Or anything less... mechanical.
Oh shit, I only just noticed - his arms appear a tad short. You could try stretching them a bit, and see if it doesn't fuck up the texture too much.
With regards to the fire. I think the largest part of the issue is the sprite I used for the fire. It is kinda cloud like but I'm not really sure what sort of sprite to use to get a more 'licking' fire look.
Heh his arms do look a bit short now you mention it. I think that's down to the bad skinning on my part and them not bending quite where they should at the shoulder. I could probably stretch them without too much problem.
As for the pose. It is a bit neutral I agree, but I wasn't sure what else to do. The rules don't specifically say it has to be a straight up straight down shot but I'm not sure what's best, this is my first main comp. I just wanted a pose that clearly shows the whole of the character, so folded arms is out, but I guess he could have a bit more attitude. Looking at last years entries, a popular shot is the 'hands on hips' for the presentation sheet, which is great for the Batmans and Supermans but I don't think that would work for this dude really.
There appears to be some blending within the shapes, but very hard edges on the outside. There are even some hard edges on the inside at the brightest portions. The exception is the faster moving bits unattached to the main flame. Even then, they have a motion blur, instead of a more even blur from diffusion (like smoke).
Also, you are kind of getting a morrowind effect, where you use a single sprite (or a few similar sprites) a zillion times. It doesn't look very fluid or dynamic. I would also make several different sprites with appreciably different sizes (in pixels, not just the particle editor). Personally, I always think it looks weird when games have particle effects with both tiny, sharp parts and large blurry parts, obviously using the same texture.
I've been playing around with the fire some more. I'm using 4 different sprites here, with the colours tweaked and in comparison the first attempt at fire looks totally blown out.
I like it a lot better, it's just getting the placement right. Should it be OTT and engulf the whole wheel or should it be a bit more reserved?
dont cover the spokes as much and maybe scale down the fire at the lower part of the wheel. some small leftover flames from molten rubber sitting on the concrete and forming a trace might be dandy as well.
Replies
Shoes / Belt / Spikes haven't been started yet.
Otherwise, onto the trike!
Also took it into Unreal and had a play with some effects, I'm looking forward to that bit for sure. What you see however is just default UDK stuff and I intend to create something using Cascade eventually.
Really could do with some suggestions on the trike, to make it look... not crap. I'm kinda limited with texture space as to how detailed I can get with scratching / dirt but I should be able to make things more interesting than they are right now.
Yep the jacket is supposed to be leather. I'm still working out the spec trying to get it to replicate leather well. Motorcycle jackets are typically not quite as shiny as a traditional 'wet-look' leather jacket, and have a much softer specular.
Pedals can be resized without problem so I'll look into that.
Stickers! Great idea thanks man!
Also I just noticed that glaring seam on the rear tyre. There's actually a million seams which I'm lucky I got away with on most parts of the trike since the entire thing is mirrored in halves, and quarters where possible. I'm hoping they stay less visible.
I'm pretty happy with how they came out, although I kinda owe that to Eric and Sam over in the thread I posted specifically about painting denim!
I'm not really sure how to make the chrome look more like chrome but right now I'm not 100% happy with it.
UDK Ground mat and skybox are default Unreal and placeholder until I get a base / backdrop sorted.
Yep all on one sheet. There's a LOT of mirroring going on and the texture res is a little lower than I'd like in parts but rules are rules!
In an ideal world I'd obviously use a separate sheet but I managed to get a fair few details in as it is so I'm happy with it.
As far as I can tell, chrome isn't quite as reflective as a silvered mirror, so a very dark grey would be a good choice.
I'm using a reflection map in UDK but as you say, not a lot is coming through as the grey is limiting its effect.
Got the base made today, played with lighting a bit.
And I think it's finally time to start playting with fire so to speak!
The only things that strike me are his hands seem a little small in the riding poses, but this might be a perspective issue. Also, his trike seems a little regular for a lil' Ghost Rider, considering how pimped the bike is in some versions of the character.
If you've got time, maybe think about making the trike a little more menacing? Obviously the scope is a little less, compared to a motorcycle, but there's still some room for some pimpin'.
Dan - Thanks man, appreciate the comments!
You're totally right, I did overlook the trike a little bit. Mainly this was down to my lack of planning. If I'm honest, I didn't expect things to go so well and the trike was kinda built as I went along. I should've spent more time in the concepting stage really to come up with something a little more exciting.
I'm pretty much out of triangles now and running out of time so for the competition entry, I probably won't change it. I do plan to revisit this later though outside of the comp and pimp things a little more. Give both assets a separate texture and add a bunch more Ghost Rider-esque detail to the trike.
Thanks again
here's what I would have tried.. 2 minutes photoshop.
I see what you mean, just changing those things makes him a lot more childlike.
Yeah he did seem to get older as the project progressed. I think part of that is down to me kinda warming to the idea of him being more teenage than toddler. One of those happy accidents. I originally intended for him to be like 5 or 6, but as things went on and he ended up looking older, I just kinda ran with it and I like how it turned out.
Speak up sooner then man!
Don't get me wrong, I like the paintover too, and yeah he would've looked cool as a toddler but I just felt he would've been riding a tiny little pushalong trike and I wanted the whole thing to have some presence.
Some of my main inspiration for the trike was in my original ref sheet... for example
Which is kinda what I wanted to aim for.
I guess it's down to my inexperience. It's a challenge in itself for me to make a character... let alone one that has characteristic appeal as well! Ah well; next time! It's all a learning curve.
Still some tweaking to do and maybe a bit too extreme but I think it's headed in the right direction.
Yep, it's just a print-screen from UDK. I'll tiledshot it for the final.
I'm just a bit stuck on how to render out the final image for comping.
Obviously I'd normally render out an alpha channel if I was in Max/Maya, but I don't think you can do that in UDK?
I guess you could apply a flat shader to the meshes to act as a Photoshop mask but that's not gonna work for the fire.
My best idea so far is to add a bsp wall or something behind him with my backdrop on and just screencap the whole thing in one shot.
There ore only really a few things that really pop to me that could use some edits.
- I'd change the tint of the skull a little to match the color of the fire a little more. It just gives the character a little more flavor and has been depicted in comics with the different colors on the skull.
- Doesn't read like a toddler, either a 10 - 12 year old kid or midget.
Overall though, I dig
Jeremy - That tri-count includes the character/trike. The budget is 12k for the main character/usable props and unlimited for the pedestal (within reason).
But I would work on that fire a bit more if you have the time. It's not bad IMO, but the back tire could use that edge of the fire being broken up so that it doesn't have such a crisp line, and the fire on the front tire has a bit of a repeating scale pattern that really stands out.
Just my thoughts on improving something I think is already really good
I've made some changes.
Better? Worse? Too much?
The only thing is I would have the front tire covered in more fire like the fist render.
I'll play with it a little to get it looking slightly more like the first. Fortunately it's pretty quick and simple to adjust the fire. It's just getting the right balance of it looking good without looking like an inferno that blocks out too much of the wheel.
I may lower the opacity a bit at the spawn point and see if that helps.
It's definitely wrapping up though. I've still got a week to submit too so plenty of time to finalize things.
It's been a lot of fun too, I'm incredibly happy with it, in all honesty it turned out a lot better than I thought it would! I've also learned a great deal too.
Bring on DWV!
One more idea (and the last thing I'll suggest). Maybe you could reverse the position of the fields of the background, so that the darker one is at the top and the lighter one is at the bottom? The smoke and cinder effect is kind of getting lost in the lightness of the background currently, and I think that's one of the cooler aspects of the shot, so it should be a bit more pronounced.
Good luck. You have a nice piece to enter there.
Nice idea about the backdrop thanks, I'll see how it looks switched up. I really like the smoke/cinders and you're totally right, they aren't as visible as they could be.
When you say the 'pod' do you mean the base?
I know the textures are blurry on there, I can't figure out how to get them looking any sharper. It's UDK's compression I think as I'm already using 2048 maps on it. It might be something I can change in UDK for the sake of cleaner presentation but I'm not sure how.
The background looks pretty bad without any kind of texture on it. It kinda makes the whole shot lose a bit of edge.
With the inverted colours, the fire/smoke looked more prominent, but it washed out the rest of the character a little in other places, especially in the non-UDK shots.
I switched the LOD on the texture of the base so that's clearer now, and also changed the lighting a little so more of a firey glow is visible on the character.
If you want to submit the shots where he's standing, you might want to loosen up his pose a bit (unless that's against rules or smth) maybe with his arms folded or his hands in his pockets. Or anything less... mechanical.
Oh shit, I only just noticed - his arms appear a tad short. You could try stretching them a bit, and see if it doesn't fuck up the texture too much.
With regards to the fire. I think the largest part of the issue is the sprite I used for the fire. It is kinda cloud like but I'm not really sure what sort of sprite to use to get a more 'licking' fire look.
Heh his arms do look a bit short now you mention it. I think that's down to the bad skinning on my part and them not bending quite where they should at the shoulder. I could probably stretch them without too much problem.
As for the pose. It is a bit neutral I agree, but I wasn't sure what else to do. The rules don't specifically say it has to be a straight up straight down shot but I'm not sure what's best, this is my first main comp. I just wanted a pose that clearly shows the whole of the character, so folded arms is out, but I guess he could have a bit more attitude. Looking at last years entries, a popular shot is the 'hands on hips' for the presentation sheet, which is great for the Batmans and Supermans but I don't think that would work for this dude really.
Thanks again.
There appears to be some blending within the shapes, but very hard edges on the outside. There are even some hard edges on the inside at the brightest portions. The exception is the faster moving bits unattached to the main flame. Even then, they have a motion blur, instead of a more even blur from diffusion (like smoke).
Also, you are kind of getting a morrowind effect, where you use a single sprite (or a few similar sprites) a zillion times. It doesn't look very fluid or dynamic. I would also make several different sprites with appreciably different sizes (in pixels, not just the particle editor). Personally, I always think it looks weird when games have particle effects with both tiny, sharp parts and large blurry parts, obviously using the same texture.
Otherwise, lookin' good!
I've been playing around with the fire some more. I'm using 4 different sprites here, with the colours tweaked and in comparison the first attempt at fire looks totally blown out.
I like it a lot better, it's just getting the placement right. Should it be OTT and engulf the whole wheel or should it be a bit more reserved?
Modeling and texturing is great tough
other than that it has come a long way!
Agreed, needed more red.
EDIT: Cheers Divi, just caught your comment after I posted. Ok good tip, I'll play with the positioning now. I think the colour is definitely better.