Read this and prepare to vomit. I hope this guy goes out of business unless he is being ironic in some way.
Back when I was doing design work I ran into countless of people that ran small business' and thought and acted exactly like this douche. Karma is a bitch however and these weak business practices almost always guarantees that they turn out a shit product and don't stay in business for long.
Back when I was doing design work I ran into countless of people that ran small business' and thought and acted exactly like this douche. Karma is a bitch however and these weak business practices almost always guarantees that they turn out a shit product and don't stay in business for long.
And that's where he lost all credibility and I stopped reading.
Then you missed this gem..
Keep them in the dark:
This relates back to what I talked about earlier. If an artist knows how much their artwork will increase the value of the game they will then feel they deserve that amount of money. This is not how a market economy works, you hire whoever is able to do the best job for the lowest amount of money, anything else is a loss of money on your end.
wow, I wonder how much good artists will this guy be able to hire with that mindset.. its just sad for this industry to see people like him not promoting quality and hardwork.
Dunno if it was there before, but now he tries to 'explain' his article. To his credit he kept the original version, on the other hand, he is still a complete douchbag.
I recommend looking through art sites such as Deviantart for an artist which suits your taste, or any other site that has a decent art community such as Newgrounds. Theres a few reasons you want to find an artist this way. First of all, theyre cheaper... Second of all, theyre better.
Sorry I'm not jumping on the villagers-with-pitchforks bandwagon, but I don't entirely see what all the fuss is about.
There's really nothing unreasonable in that article. He's not suggesting anyone rip off an artist by not paying them. Maybe his tone is not entirely professional, but there's a lot of either no-brainer stuff in there, or things we all know. This guy is offering his experience hiring artists for (probably crappy) flash games. He's offering suggestions for finding the cheapest work. Which is, by the way, a pretty common practice in business. As long as his advice is approached with integrity, there's nothing terrible about what he says in this article.
I'm with Slum on this one. He's more or less just telling it how it is.
Consider it a blessing that even with a cutthroat mentality in play, in the freelance field you have the options of naming your price. Most jobs on earth they just tell you "You work this long for that much."
the sad thing about this isn't so much what he's writing but rather that that's the common mentality in most societies.
people try to get every little bit of anything for themselves and do not care the slightest if someone else would've had a far greater benefit from it than they do.
everything is about "having" and not about "needing".
Tim Langdell feels slightly less edgy, Bobby Kotick pauses mid bite of his baby sandwich and Billy Mitchell almost mistimes a barrel jump.... a new video game villain has appeared.
If the artists are taken advantage of then it is kind of their own fault. If their willing to organise their own business they have to know how to do their own business.
Sadly, there's no indication anywhere in this blog that he's doing anything illegal. That being said, he's an idiot to have broadcasted his views in the manner he did. He's really just digging his own grave, good luck to him getting any decent artists to work for him now. The more us inexperienced artists hear about this type of mentality only makes us more jaded about the industry in general. u_u Sad, but true.
Well, people will very often try to take advantage of other people, capitalism has nothing to do with it
Problem is that business side of art is seldom discussed, which should be more or less common knowledge among artists, like perspective and anatomy is. He managed to get away with that attitude and ways of doing business because artists had no idea how to work and how much/how to charge.
If this enrages you, think hard next time you ask a friend to help you move or to fix your computer instead of hiring a professional. Pizza and beer cost less than professional movers, so clearly you are exploiting your friends. Or the kid down the street who mows your lawn. Or whomever it is you hire to do a job you dont want to or cant who isnt a professional.
This hurt my head. NO fucking way is doing a friend a favor the same as doing your profession.
Hey, it's up to him: you can be cut-throat and burn every bridge behind you or you can be reasonable and build a network.
This^
You can work in this incredibly small industry for a while, or you can spend time wondering why no one will work with you, again.
No doubt you can make money with sleazy business tactics, but its hard to make a good name for yourself working like that. Especially when you blog about your "hot tips". Just because someone can make money a certain way doesn't make it right. There are plenty of ways to be respected and successful, it often means being a touch more creative and not so quick to take the easy sleazy way out.
You can work in this incredibly small industry for a while, or you can spend time wondering why no one will work with you, again.
No doubt you can make money with sleazy business tactics, but its hard to make a good name for yourself working like that. Especially when you blog about your "hot tips".
There are alot of people though, it would take him along time to burn all the bridges that are available to him.
Simple karma and whatever likely wont come to anything. The only likely thing is an increase in artist resolve and business nouse, in his wake.
Markets work pretty naturally. If you don't like practices like this, go to school, get a real job, be one of those professional artists he doesn't want to hire. You'll never bump into eachother. Plenty of people will be happy to work for him, he doesnt need you and you dont need him.
It bothers me because he's setting out to purposely take advantage of newer artists, and when you do that, it undermines the established professional and just makes the inexperienced artists angry down the road. Plus the way he phrases it, even if it is "true"... man, what a dick.
Yeah the whole point isn't that it might affect us, as we know better, but it affect others. Slavery is also okay...as long I'm not in the boat, pulling oars....*irony intented*
Yeah the whole point isn't that it might affect us, as we know better, but it affect others. Slavery is also okay...as long I'm not in the boat, pulling oars....*irony intented*
except he's not intending to enslave anyone, he's intending to pay them money to draw pictures.
It bothers me because he's setting out to purposely take advantage of newer artists, and when you do that, it undermines the established professional and just makes the inexperienced artists angry down the road. Plus the way he phrases it, even if it is "true"... man, what a dick.
How is he "taking advantage" of them? Finding non-working artists, asking them what compensation they want for their work, then paying them that fee. What a jerk, right?
Yes by all means please burn out and jade the newbies before they ever take a full time job... awesome.
But honestly he's no worse than someone who combs junk yards looking for antiques to sell. He technically pays for it, he just doesn't pay what its worth. If you don't like it, let your doberman loose and fill his tailgate full of buckshot.
He is being a jerk when he undermines the importance the artist plays in the eventual outcome of a game. Working for someone who constantly reminds you how replaceable you are is the first step to having a very poor turnover rate and employees who are anything but dedicated to you or your product.
How is he "taking advantage" of them? Finding non-working artists, asking them what compensation they want for their work, then paying them that fee. What a jerk, right?
I can only speak for myself, but when I was just starting out I wasn't really aware of how to price my work and ended up being paid very, very poorly, even for beginner's quality work. I'll fully and completely admit that it was up to me to figure out how to do it properly, but it's a rough way to learn.
I can only speak for myself, but when I was just starting out I wasn't really aware of how to price my work and ended up being paid very, very poorly, even for beginner's quality work. I'll fully and completely admit that it was up to me to figure out how to do it properly, but it's a rough way to learn.
Well, had they gotten a bigger number they could've picked someone else than you, someone who would couldn't figure out a proper pay.
This guy is pissing his most rotten and foul morning urine into the last parts of clear oasis water we have, and he openly blogs and tells other devs how to properly urinate in it too, and if they don't do that they're stupid.
I knew a couple of guys in this position, but wanting to break in so bad they got hooked and are doing something unrelated to their specialization, and usually hating it due to how they're being treated.
I know I have a year to go before graduation, but i'm for sure gonna be reading contracts and exploring interviews without diving head in first into a trap.
From a completely objective standpoint this person would not hire the artist version of himself.
It also looks as if he advocates using the most cut throat capitalistic principles possible when looking for people to do work for yourself, and that this is a "positive" or "good" thing to do, but that those very same people whom he is telling you you should hire should not apply these principles, and instead act like a resource to be exploited. If they do attempt to behave in a similar manner it is a "negative" or an example of a poor person to employ.
He really sounds like every business man I have ever come across. If anything, take this as a blessing in disguise and appreciate the fact that this guy actually took the time to write up about shit tactics and cut throat decisions that business people do EVERYDAY to cheap people out of their worth. Better learn now than later down the road.
This is the truth when it concerns capitalism and how it works and frankly, the truth is hard hurts but it doesn't make it any less real.
Didn't Google pull some similar shit on graphic designers by asking for new designs but not willing to pay for their logos?
I pretty much used those techniques to 'hire' (it was a non-paid project) an artist from Deviantart.
The main difference is that, even when the project fell through, we ended up as friends and are currently working to start a webcomic together, just for fun.
The real problem isn't the actual method he's advising - it's nothing new, and it's not like anyone needs to be taught how to act like that - and more the manner in which he's advising it.
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned briefly in the first page of this thread, but everyone keeps talking about this guy like he's some seasoned suit with years of exploitation experience on his resume.
He's a sixteen year-old kid.
He probably picked up this ruthless capitalist act from shit he read on the web, or what Daddy does at the office, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he's just a kid. Maybe when he grows up, he'll get some sense and realize that acting that way will do him no favors in any industry, especially one as small as game development.
Doesnt everyone have to go through at least one client like this when they start freelancing? He isnt even the worst by a long shot.
Edit: I think that the reason he is able to get away with this is that he is working with 2d pixel art. Back when games went 3d the pixel art community was gutted. The vast majority of professionals either learned new skills or left the professional pool altogether. Now that pixel art is booming again, it very well may be that the existing market is simply incapable of keeping up with demand. If that is the case, then this sort of tactics may make sense for the time being. i.e.: pros really are overcharging and delivering sloppy work on delayed schedules because they are flooded with orders.
He is being a jerk when he undermines the importance the artist plays in the eventual outcome of a game. Working for someone who constantly reminds you how replaceable you are is the first step to having a very poor turnover rate and employees who are anything but dedicated to you or your product.
This should be enough /\ you must have been with my previous "employer".
the dude sounds like some 20 year old fool who's learning actionscript. the only people who would "work" for him are 18 year old kids who try to draw horrible anime and put it up on deviantart and then cut themselves.
Replies
Back when I was doing design work I ran into countless of people that ran small business' and thought and acted exactly like this douche. Karma is a bitch however and these weak business practices almost always guarantees that they turn out a shit product and don't stay in business for long.
Sadly so have i.
Then you missed this gem..
I wonder if it is this guy.. http://xdragonx10.newgrounds.com/news/post/379864
being 16 would explain alot
this guy'll go far
Yup, until he hit the bottom of the cliff someone pushed him over, and then takes a picture and publish it as art called "Rock douch in red".
There's really nothing unreasonable in that article. He's not suggesting anyone rip off an artist by not paying them. Maybe his tone is not entirely professional, but there's a lot of either no-brainer stuff in there, or things we all know. This guy is offering his experience hiring artists for (probably crappy) flash games. He's offering suggestions for finding the cheapest work. Which is, by the way, a pretty common practice in business. As long as his advice is approached with integrity, there's nothing terrible about what he says in this article.
Consider it a blessing that even with a cutthroat mentality in play, in the freelance field you have the options of naming your price. Most jobs on earth they just tell you "You work this long for that much."
people try to get every little bit of anything for themselves and do not care the slightest if someone else would've had a far greater benefit from it than they do.
everything is about "having" and not about "needing".
If the artists are taken advantage of then it is kind of their own fault. If their willing to organise their own business they have to know how to do their own business.
Problem is that business side of art is seldom discussed, which should be more or less common knowledge among artists, like perspective and anatomy is. He managed to get away with that attitude and ways of doing business because artists had no idea how to work and how much/how to charge.
I think a lot can be improved by mere education.
This hurt my head. NO fucking way is doing a friend a favor the same as doing your profession.
You can work in this incredibly small industry for a while, or you can spend time wondering why no one will work with you, again.
No doubt you can make money with sleazy business tactics, but its hard to make a good name for yourself working like that. Especially when you blog about your "hot tips". Just because someone can make money a certain way doesn't make it right. There are plenty of ways to be respected and successful, it often means being a touch more creative and not so quick to take the easy sleazy way out.
There are alot of people though, it would take him along time to burn all the bridges that are available to him.
Simple karma and whatever likely wont come to anything. The only likely thing is an increase in artist resolve and business nouse, in his wake.
Markets work pretty naturally. If you don't like practices like this, go to school, get a real job, be one of those professional artists he doesn't want to hire. You'll never bump into eachother. Plenty of people will be happy to work for him, he doesnt need you and you dont need him.
Live and let live, guys.
except he's not intending to enslave anyone, he's intending to pay them money to draw pictures.
How is he "taking advantage" of them? Finding non-working artists, asking them what compensation they want for their work, then paying them that fee. What a jerk, right?
But honestly he's no worse than someone who combs junk yards looking for antiques to sell. He technically pays for it, he just doesn't pay what its worth. If you don't like it, let your doberman loose and fill his tailgate full of buckshot.
I can only speak for myself, but when I was just starting out I wasn't really aware of how to price my work and ended up being paid very, very poorly, even for beginner's quality work. I'll fully and completely admit that it was up to me to figure out how to do it properly, but it's a rough way to learn.
Well, had they gotten a bigger number they could've picked someone else than you, someone who would couldn't figure out a proper pay.
This guy is pissing his most rotten and foul morning urine into the last parts of clear oasis water we have, and he openly blogs and tells other devs how to properly urinate in it too, and if they don't do that they're stupid.
Welcome to the indie gamedev world
I know I have a year to go before graduation, but i'm for sure gonna be reading contracts and exploring interviews without diving head in first into a trap.
From a completely objective standpoint this person would not hire the artist version of himself.
It also looks as if he advocates using the most cut throat capitalistic principles possible when looking for people to do work for yourself, and that this is a "positive" or "good" thing to do, but that those very same people whom he is telling you you should hire should not apply these principles, and instead act like a resource to be exploited. If they do attempt to behave in a similar manner it is a "negative" or an example of a poor person to employ.
This is the truth when it concerns capitalism and how it works and frankly, the truth is hard hurts but it doesn't make it any less real.
Didn't Google pull some similar shit on graphic designers by asking for new designs but not willing to pay for their logos?
http://www.thejonjones.com/2010/08/09/how-not-to-hire-an-artist/
Absolutely wonderful rebuttal to all the points of the prior article.
The main difference is that, even when the project fell through, we ended up as friends and are currently working to start a webcomic together, just for fun.
The real problem isn't the actual method he's advising - it's nothing new, and it's not like anyone needs to be taught how to act like that - and more the manner in which he's advising it.
That said, the rebuttal was awesome.
He's a sixteen year-old kid.
He probably picked up this ruthless capitalist act from shit he read on the web, or what Daddy does at the office, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he's just a kid. Maybe when he grows up, he'll get some sense and realize that acting that way will do him no favors in any industry, especially one as small as game development.
Or maybe he'll end up an executive at Zynga.
Edit: I think that the reason he is able to get away with this is that he is working with 2d pixel art. Back when games went 3d the pixel art community was gutted. The vast majority of professionals either learned new skills or left the professional pool altogether. Now that pixel art is booming again, it very well may be that the existing market is simply incapable of keeping up with demand. If that is the case, then this sort of tactics may make sense for the time being. i.e.: pros really are overcharging and delivering sloppy work on delayed schedules because they are flooded with orders.
This should be enough /\ you must have been with my previous "employer".
Tim Langdell of Edge Games http://www.destructoid.com/trademark-troll-since-when-did-ea-become-the-good-guys--168999.phtml