There are three types of people in the world: wolves, sheepdogs & sheep
The wolves job is to eat sheep
The sheepdogs job is to stop the wolves eating the sheep
The sheeps job is to whine endlessly about how badly the sheepdogs treat the wolves
There are three types of people in the world: wolves, sheepdogs & sheep
The wolves job is to eat sheep
The sheepdogs job is to stop the wolves eating the sheep
The sheeps job is to whine endlessly about how badly the sheepdogs treat the wolves
the fourth kind of person is the kind of person that insists that people can be lumped into groups as easily as all that.
Living so close to this mess, I hope someone cleans it up soon, if only for the peoples sake.
That and I'm not too happy about the prospect of missiles pointed at Tokyo.
I wouldnt worry too much. Fitting a nuke onto a missile is pretty tricky. It took the Soviets and the US a long time to get that system working and they had vast resources compared to north Korea.
Like all nuclear weapons, it is more of a political weapon. If Kim technically has the power to destroy south Korea, strike a mortal blow to Japan, and drag China into a war with the US...that might be enough to make global stock markets hick-up just by rattling his saber. A weapon like that is much more useful than a nuke.
Edit: Those 4 countries alone are over 40% of the entire worlds GDP. Even a small chance that he could start something should be enough to cause real problems.
I think the Chinese would be quite pissed if little Kim disturbs their churning economy by starting a war on their doorstep. They're happy he keeps the Americans busy though but if he starts acting up, Beijing will not be happy, and then Kim will be caught between a hard place with stars'n'stripes and red painted rock with some yellow stars on it.
i think i make this post in every political thread but:
I'm very anti war but junkie you're horribly misinformed/undereducated about this shit quit posting silly nonsense polycount is usually a smart community
You want to put a skirt on for me now or later? You've had a wet little pussy for hating on me for quite a while now without proving anything I say wrong. If anyone here is looking silly it is you with your personal attacks and lack of substantial info to debate with.
Back on topic. I knew S. Korea didn't pay for their security entirely. So my original point still stands. But I appreciate the input jrs100000. It's not my job to care how highly taxed the people are. If the US troops completely pulled out they would be taxed even higher. My concern is only for how highly taxed the American people already are.
You want to put a skirt on for me now or later? You've had a wet little pussy for hating on me for quite a while now without proving anything I say wrong. If anyone here is looking silly it is you with your personal attacks and lack of substantial info to debate with.
I think it was the way that you, or the originator of that image, made it look like every single U.S. serviceman is stealing from every american. Which is, with all due respect, a very juvenile way to put it.
You cannot blame people for taking an available job, but you can blame the people who make the job available with your money.
A large part of this issue is simple geography. North Korea is ruled by a dictatorship with delusions of grandeur. It aspires to be a conqueror, and expand its influence and power. But its location is holding it back. On one side, there is China. And no matter how large an army North Korea manages to assemble, China's standing military will always be able to kick their ass. It's just a matter of logistics. China is much, much bigger, and will always have more people available. So that's not an option. The only other direction they have to go in is down into South Korea. But South Korea is an ally of the US, and the US has a policy of backing up its allies with surprising force.
Although North Korea has a decently powerful army, its navy and air force aren't nearly to level where they could be called a super power. So their imperial ambitions are limited to ground combat. And that means either China or South Korea, South Korea being the "softer" of the two targets. The only possible outcomes are a military conflict with South Korea, or for North Korea to abandon its dreams of expansion.
guys, this is just a lot of dick waving, in a dick waving contest that has been here for a long time. None of the sides has anything to win with a war, the US and S. Korea are just trying to persuade DPRK to stop with their nuclear projects.
Back on topic. I knew S. Korea didn't pay for their security entirely. So my original point still stands. But I appreciate the input jrs100000. It's not my job to care how highly taxed the people are. If the US troops completely pulled out they would be taxed even higher. My concern is only for how highly taxed the American people already are.
What are you expecting them to pay for? The salaries of all the soldiers? Vehicles and equipment? I cant imagine they would be very happy about that since the US can and does pull resources out of Korea to support other efforts whenever its convenient.
In any case, I certainly wouldnt say that they qualify as welfare queens.
"North Korea drove tensions to new heights after a team of investigators, led by South Korea's military, accused it of firing a torpedo in March to sink the corvette Cheonan, killing 46 men."
NORTH KOREA drove tensions when SOUTH KOREA accused them. Who wrote that?? A drove tension when B accused him... what?? seriously, talk about objectivism...
I´ve seen pictures of the torpedo. that thing was all rusty. It was under the water maybe since the wwII. and the "north korean" sign on it? seriously, that was written in ink? Looked like "hey, let´s write something on it. make it look North Korean, ok? Not Chinese!! Chinese are too big and they´ve got weapons. Today it´s North Korea."
I mean, if I wanted a war, I´d attack them directly. If I didn´t, the torpedo would be spotless. And first news were the there were no holes in the ship or anything and that the torpedo was "contactless". Contactless. "Hey you, ship! you´re going doooown! Be a good ship and go down... don´t make me make a hole in you! Let´s do it the easy way..."
I can't believe some comments that I read in here, I mean, really? Should we just attack them because of their own choices?
Afaik, NK's are just afraid of being attacked, like Iraq did. So, they're preparing for war, and a possible invasion by the so called "imperialists".
The hell with the NK's. they want to survive by their own, go ahead, starve to death, see if I care. Why the fuck should we attack them?
Do you attack random tramps in the street? even if they own a gun?
Thank god for this comment.
It really makes me wonder how can anybody say that US should attack NK. What gives anybody the right to attack other country? Seriously. Can I kill my neighbor just because he´s learning self-defense techniques? Why not - international law shuts the fuck up anytime US bombs hundreds of civilian in a meaningless war (oil is not a reason for me. you don´t have an oil? buy it. I can´t come to groceries and kill them to get things I want. and here I´m talking about food, not oil.). Maybe if I said that the tank in my car was empty and he had a full tank, that would shut the mouth to the media. And why don´t you mind that Israel has the bomb? You´re even helping them with that... Maybe there´s a list of people/nations/races/religions that can feel equal to the leaders of the world, you know.. I´d like to see it. Because obviously some countries can do anything everywhere (kill activists, use babies as a shield, put sanctions, kidnap people from their homes and torture them) and the others can´t even defend themselves from these people without being called terrorists.
My opinion would be - either everyone should be allowed to have nuclear weapons, or nobody. Those who don´t have them yet, can work on them. Why not? If the fuckers in White house had a REAL reason to be worried of any other country, believe me - there would be peace in the world. Or do you really thing that Bush would go to Iraq if they REALLY had some weapons? No way. And don´t tell me that USA is the good country that wouldn´t use it to fuck everyone´s ass in case there would be noone else with nuclear weapons, ok? Movies are one thing and reality is other.
And - I wouldn´t be surprised if any of the South Korean or American ships would sink there. Afterall, Hitler also attacked his own radio-station to blame Poland and attack them. my quess would be American - torn American flag looks a lot better in headlines to motivate people to support another bloodshed. Why would they care, right? the war is always outside USA, so why should they care about things like "reason" or "civilians"?
I think I made my point here. I know, there´s probably going to be many haters that will call me an idiot or even a terrorist. Well, being a terrorist for these people makes me only proud. Afterall, our partizans were also called "banditen" by the nazis during WWII, and now they´re proud that they were called banditen back then.
ad hominem? I dont recall resorting to name calling or attacking in any way.
I realize the thread is about NK specifically but what I'm trying to get at here is the bigger picture. It came out Vietnam was a sham and the gulf of tonkin incident was a lie designed to get America into that war. The excuse for Afghanistan was because of 9/11 but then that quickly changed to the taliban is evil and theyre abusing women and such. Then you had Iraq, and the excuse for that was WMD's which again turned out to be bologny. I mean give me a break, is no one else catching on?
The iraq thing was a mistake imo.
If you don't think the forces attacking is in afghanistan represent a threat to the west, though, you're horribly under-educated on the subject. The conflict in afghanistan isnt against local, angry rebels or something, we're fighting militarized, funded, independent 'terrorist' organizations who've demonstrated a willingness to attack countries outside of their borders. Hell, they dont even have borders.
Additionally -- this isnt really a fair argument since it relies on so much speculation, but i just want to broach the idea: honestly, war sucks, and imperialistic war away from our borders sucks even more, but can you honestly say with confidence that our anti-red policy with korea and vietnam and our current 'anti terrorist' policy aren't for the good of the nation?
I mean there were REALLY big stumbles and i would love it if the wars had never happened and everything had turned out well, but when it came down to it america's overall strategy in the cold war was a success. The USSR collapsed without ever inflicting major harm on the west.
Also:
'America's policy regarding North Korea is bad because America's behavior (past and present) is bad' represents an ad hominem. So does 'America's policy regarding North Korea is invalid because America's policymakers have bad judgement'
Even if america had made a billion shitty military decisions, it wouldnt have anything to do with whether the current NK policy is good or bad.
What gives anybody the right to attack other country? Seriously.
Well, there are the humanitarian considerations. By all accounts, the current North Korean regime's mismanagement of its national resources is driving its citizens into starvation. They are effectively killing off their own population. It could be argued that it is their right as a sovereign nation to do just that. But its also hard not to feel a little bad for the millions of North Korean civilians being slowly starved to death. If a war did break out, it is highly unlikely that the civilians of North Korea would suffer any more than they already are. Even a swift death as collateral damage is probably less painful and agonizing than the slow misery of starvation.
Of course, the current political climate would make a US, or even a South Korean instigated conflict highly unlikely. No, if there is going to be any war, it will be one that North Korea starts. North Korea is getting desperate because they are beginning to realize that they won't be able to maintain their country as it stands much longer.
I wouldnt worry too much. Fitting a nuke onto a missile is pretty tricky. It took the Soviets and the US a long time to get that system working and they had vast resources compared to north Korea.
Conventional missiles burn and kill thousands of people just fine too.
There was a local family (here in Kansas, the middle of the USA) the parents got deported and the kid were born here so they are legal, the parents lived here for 15+ years, payed taxes, raised a family, had a nice house, weren't using any government support. The parents had to fight to get citizenship and the kids stayed here and got some support from friends and family.
And there are tons of people who rob to support their families because they cant feed their kids any other way, but it doesn't mean that making burglary illegal is the problem. We need immigration reform, badly, but the last thing we need is to make it okay for people to come into our country without immigrating. It represents a massive security and more importantly economical risk.
I´ve seen pictures of the torpedo. that thing was all rusty.
Do you understand how Oxidization ('rust' in this case) works?
Torpedos explode, dumbass.
As for 'contactless', sinking a ship before it knows you're there is kindof the entire ideal behind naval warfare
I'm not saying that north korea sank that ship, but if your understanding of the facts is so little that you think 'it's rusty!' and 'early reports were misleading!' is enough to invalidate the claim you shouldnt be posting about this shit.
Lastly, Junkie, i don't have to disprove you. Hell, i cant, your claims are too vacuous to attack. Demanding a refutation to assertions you havent provided any evidence for is juvenile and not going to get us anywhere.
We attacked germany in WW2. We refused to recognize their nation's borders and invaded them, and then pushed well into borders we DID acknowledge. It takes a lot to morally justify war, but it definitely happens.
I'm glad someone posted the VICE guide to north korea, that one cracked me up and got me looking for more info on the country.
Can't really add anything else that hasn't been said already, maybe only that i think that NK is a country that will burn itself out eventually if they don't change their ways. Who will step in and pick up the pieces when they do is another story though.
I'm glad someone posted the VICE guide to north korea, that one cracked me up and got me looking for more info on the country.
Can't really add anything else that hasn't been said already, maybe only that i think that NK is a country that will burn itself out eventually if they don't change their ways. Who will step in and pick up the pieces when they do is another story though.
Now THAT i dont care about. China and russia and the other 'eastern' powers have tons of people they need to protect and take care of too, if they economically profit from this mess instead of us more power to them.
It's only really the 'rogue state that maintains a policy of aggression toward their neighbors' part that bothers me
I dont think that anyone here has said that the US should attack north Korea, except as an obvious joke.
I also dont see how a Gulf of Tonkin style incident would be required to cause tension along the naval border either. The wiki article on the Norther Limit Line does a pretty good job of describing the problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Limit_Line
The naval border between north and south Korea is highly disputed and shots are regularly fired back and forth between vessels patrolling those waters.
Do you understand how Oxidization ('rust' in this case) works?
Torpedos explode, dumbass.
So what you´re saying is that it was oxidated, and that the ink written sign that was called to be proof it´s by NK just stayed there? How does oxidation work when it´s all oxidated and the ink just stays clearly visible on it? really makes me wonder. isn´t it really possible that it was really just some rusty crap and someone took a pen to make draw signs on it? Wouldn´t surprise me, you know. Vaporizing airplane parts, WMD,... and now simply a rusty piece of crap. Or do you have any physical explanation to these two too?
Conventional missiles burn and kill thousands of people just fine too.
Yes, but a couple thousand lives at risk in Tokyo is pretty insignificant compared to the millions of Koreans that would assuredly dieing within that same hypothetical time frame.
well as korean who actually served madatory militaly sevice for 3 years for south korea, I can say this much... they won't be a war. never.
this threat from NK happens all the time. It is likes rituals. they don't have any capability to start a war. Funny and scary thing is that media especally american conservity media outlet such as FOX push this agenda hard. GO to korean news site , chinaese news site or japan. you will find out much diffrent tone of news. World cup is more big new than this.
Even in PATAGON war senario concluded that there can not be a war becouse of unthinkable casualities that directly related to japan and china. and thoses two don;t want that happen.
you guys have to open your eyes, and do not suck into propaganda of some special interest group.
well as korean who actually served madatory militaly sevice for 3 years for south korea, I can say this much... they won't be a war. never.
this threat from NK happens all the time. It is likes rituals. they don't have any capability to start a war. Funny and scary thing is that media especally american conservity media outlet such as FOX push this agenda hard. GO to korean news site , chinaese news site or japan. you will find out much diffrent tone of news. World cup is more big new than this.
Even in PATAGON war senario concluded that there can not be a war becouse of unthinkable casualities that directly related to japan and china. and thoses two don;t want that happen.
you guys have to open your eyes, and do not suck into propaganda of some special interest group.
well as korean who actually served madatory militaly sevice for 3 years for south korea, I can say this much... they won't be a war. never.
this threat from NK happens all the time. It is likes rituals. they don't have any capability to start a war. Funny and scary thing is that media especally american conservity media outlet such as FOX push this agenda hard. GO to korean news site , chinaese news site or japan. you will find out much diffrent tone of news. World cup is more big new than this.
Even in PATAGON war senario concluded that there can not be a war becouse of unthinkable casualities that directly related to japan and china. and thoses two don;t want that happen.
you guys have to open your eyes, and do not suck into propaganda of some special interest group.
peace
I thought 3 years was for the KNP? I hope they didnt change it recently cause you guys had it rough.
Yes, but a couple thousand lives at risk in Tokyo is pretty insignificant compared to the millions of Koreans that would assuredly dieing within that same hypothetical time frame.
You're right, because north korea has the weaponry and guidance systems and strategic infrastructure to launch ha precision attack on tokyo, but no western nations have anything to fall back on except carpet boming NK.
ghost-d: God dude your expert eye does not make something sharpie.
Airplane parts are light and thin metal, they do all kinds of weird shit when they HIT THE GROUND REALLY HARD.
Wmds were an intelligence mistake, those have happened too many times through history to count.
You're an amazing artist dude why do you write about this shit instead of like lecturing us on anatomy or something really useful
You're right, because north korea has the weaponry and guidance systems and strategic infrastructure to launch ha precision attack on tokyo, but no western nations have anything to fall back on except carpet boming NK.
No, because if they launch at Japan that means they are already at war with south Korea. That means artillery pieces open up, airplanes loaded with explosives take off, commando teams start blowing up transportation and utilities, and infantry charge into minefields and machine guns, most of this taking place in the middle of one of the worlds more densely populated civilian areas.
well as korean who actually served madatory militaly sevice for 3 years for south korea, I can say this much... they won't be a war. never.
Exactly. It's just not going to happen. The North Koreans have been singing this song for 57 years now, but they've never once followed through because it's really not up to them. A war between NK and SK would be another proxy war between the US and China, but neither super power wants that and NK hasn't got a prayer of going it alone. I'm more worried about being mauled by grizzly bears than I am the North Korean war machine.
You're right, because north korea has the weaponry and guidance systems and strategic infrastructure to launch ha precision attack on tokyo, but no western nations have anything to fall back on except carpet boming NK.
ghost-d: God dude your expert eye does not make something sharpie.
Airplane parts are light and thin metal, they do all kinds of weird shit when they HIT THE GROUND REALLY HARD.
Wmds were an intelligence mistake, those have happened too many times through history to count.
You're an amazing artist dude why do you write about this shit instead of like lecturing us on anatomy or something really useful
Maybe you didn´t get my post regarding the airplane parts - I meant those wings that should have vaporized just before airplane hit pentagon and that was supposed to be the reason why the hole in pentagon wasn´t that big (and why the streetlights were juuust fine). that´s what I was mocking. and also the fact that on the single one camera file we are allowed to see isn´t any airplane. just detonation.
WMD. Well, too many people died because of this mistake (funny thing: "intelligence" and "mistake"). what if these news are also just another "mistake"? same people are telling us this crap. same media, same puppeteers (only puppets changed).
and according to art: politics is one thing, and art is another. these two shouldn´t mix here. we probably couldn´t have a beer together, but that doesn´t matter when we meet on "pimp and previews" battlefield.
We could totally have a beer together! How little you understand the facts doesn't make your overall stance (mistrust and defiance of an impersonal government) any less valid, it just makes you look stupid when you argue it.
But seriously the plane is pretty simple. The plane hit the ground first, and only the HUGE HEAVY PART had enough force left to PUNCH THROUGH A MASSIVE LIMESTONE WALL. I don't know if you have much limestone arcitecture around there, but i'm from indiana and everything around here is built with that shit, and it's absurdly sturdy. Even a building that WASN'T reinforced for impacts would make short work of flimsy plane wings, especially after they lost most of their speed. Have you ever crushed an aluminum can with your hand? You can make pretty short work of one without hurting yourself at all. The same thing goes at a much bigger scale for 747 wings and gigantic, sturdy, stone structures. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp
'intelligence' is notoriously imprecise and yeah it makes the name pretty cute. The same sort of a mistake sunk Imperial japan at midway -- we should count our blessings that we didn't lose half the globe and collapse as a nation shortly after that bungle.
All that said, we shouldnt trust a thing the government says, and i agree with you there. It's just i DO trust the things that physics, engineering, history, and normal lower level government employees with normal lives say.
We could totally have a beer together! How little you understand the facts doesn't make your overall stance (mistrust and defiance of an impersonal government) any less valid, it just makes you look stupid when you argue it.
and this is exactly why we couldn´t have a beer together. I named you about three things (1 - totally idiotic official report on why the pentagon hole isn´t that big; 2 - why there aren´t we allowed to see all the camera records from that area from that day; 3 - WMD mistake leading to thousands of civilians dead should be a reason for US intelligence to shut up and be mocked by public and other countries as soon as they come up with some new threat) and none of those you´ve disproved/clarify, yet you´re calling my opinions stupid. See? even for the beer I could give you a reason.
Also, it´s just funny to hear about the self-called toughest nation being so scared each and every day. don´t you all feel stupid when your leaders make you look like bunch of sissies? Seriously, why do you allow that? Or is it true?
Historically, small weak nations have taken over large portions of Europe multiple times. It rarely takes money and power to achieve military dominance, at least not in the short term. Just good timing and inspiration. Writing a guy off as a threat just because they're little and weak is ridiculous.
I refuted both your WMD point with 'intelligence has always sucked throughout history, where do you THINK they are?' and your plane shit with a snopes article and the most basic concepts of highschool physics. If you think the explanation of why the hole isnt that big is idiotic, you really don't have any idea how even the simplest physical concepts work. Not much mass + not much speed = not much damage. Why would the wings have ever damaged a building like the pentagon? The holes left in the flimsy glass wtc towers weren't even that big.
We could totally have a beer together! How little you understand the facts doesn't make your overall stance (mistrust and defiance of an impersonal government) any less valid, it just makes you look stupid when you argue it.
But seriously the plane is pretty simple. The plane hit the ground first, and only the HUGE HEAVY PART had enough force left to PUNCH THROUGH A MASSIVE LIMESTONE WALL. I don't know if you have much limestone arcitecture around there, but i'm from indiana and everything around here is built with that shit, and it's absurdly sturdy. Even a building that WASN'T reinforced for impacts would make short work of flimsy plane wings, especially after they lost most of their speed. Have you ever crushed an aluminum can with your hand? You can make pretty short work of one without hurting yourself at all. The same thing goes at a much bigger scale for 747 wings and gigantic, sturdy, stone structures. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp
'intelligence' is notoriously imprecise and yeah it makes the name pretty cute. The same sort of a mistake sunk Imperial japan at midway -- we should count our blessings that we didn't lose half the globe and collapse as a nation shortly after that bungle.
All that said, we shouldnt trust a thing the government says, and i agree with you there. It's just i DO trust the things that physics, engineering, history, and normal lower level government employees with normal lives say.
If it was so, there would be a crater in front of the bulding with the parts that "didn´t have force enough to make it to the wall" (which is really stupid, sorry to say that) and still doesn´t explain the streetlights not being touched by the wings. And it also doesn´t explain why can´t we finally see full uncut camera recordings from all the cameras around that area from that day. any idea? no? here comes your "trust". You´d rather make things up and tweak even gravitation if you´d have to just not to ask questions. why? what good can it make? believe everything you see and hear on TV, even that ALF lives on Malmac. Good lord, you can´t be serious with this. this discussion is pointless...
How the feck did this turn into this 9/11 "truther" shit? Mehh
9/11 simply could not have been orchestrated by the bush government, because it actually happened and succeeded.
but it was orchestrated nonetheless. Bush was just a frontman/PR guy used to sell the war and sell everyone on the idea of terrorism. The man was literally retarded, theres no way he himself could even conceive of such an event
guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld on the other hand are pretty intelligent men and played there part as well.
little bit off topic but
if you make war games this could be very good detailed source for game design
because its based on real documents just been released.
but it was orchestrated nonetheless. Bush was just a frontman/PR guy used to sell the war and sell everyone on the idea of terrorism. The man was literally retarded, theres no way he himself could even conceive of such an event
guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld on the other hand are pretty intelligent men and played there part as well.
but it was orchestrated nonetheless. Bush was just a frontman/PR guy used to sell the war and sell everyone on the idea of terrorism. The man was literally retarded, theres no way he himself could even conceive of such an event
guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld on the other hand are pretty intelligent men and played there part as well.
If you are really looking for the truth, you should make theories that fit the facts, instead of bending facts to fit your theories. Oh and you shouldnt believe everything you see in a documentary either, especially controversial ones, go fact-check and see for yourself.
If you are really looking for the truth, you should make theories that fit the facts, instead of bending facts to fit your theories. Oh and you shouldnt believe everything you see in a documentary either, especially controversial ones, go fact-check and see for yourself.
the truth is the official version is the real conspiracy. its amazing how repeating the same lie over and over constitutes facts to so many...think about it
the truth is the official version is the real conspiracy. its amazing how repeating the same lie over and over constitutes facts to so many...think about it
Give it up. You can´t argue with these people. They´re blind. No matter how many times you ask them why the government won´t show a single camera file with airplane crashing into pentagon, they won´t answer. They´re the ones bending the facts to fit their government trusting minds (doesn´t need to much bending though... if you know what I mean). They will never question the official version because "we should trust our president" (as britney spears said with a chewing gum in her mouth).
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - they believed even this. do you think that they felt stupid when he admited that he lied? no... do you think they felt sorry for supporting wars that showed up to be just a unjust? no... and even later when the things clear up they won´t feel stupid for trusting these assholes that lead the country now. it´s messed up DNA or what...
Replies
If NK is a lie, then it is damn elaborate, and has been going on for over 60 years.
For those who like to learn more about Nkorea, also see the other 2 parts... it's really funny and the presenter is a pretty cool dude
The wolves job is to eat sheep
The sheepdogs job is to stop the wolves eating the sheep
The sheeps job is to whine endlessly about how badly the sheepdogs treat the wolves
the fourth kind of person is the kind of person that insists that people can be lumped into groups as easily as all that.
That and I'm not too happy about the prospect of missiles pointed at Tokyo.
I wouldnt worry too much. Fitting a nuke onto a missile is pretty tricky. It took the Soviets and the US a long time to get that system working and they had vast resources compared to north Korea.
Like all nuclear weapons, it is more of a political weapon. If Kim technically has the power to destroy south Korea, strike a mortal blow to Japan, and drag China into a war with the US...that might be enough to make global stock markets hick-up just by rattling his saber. A weapon like that is much more useful than a nuke.
Edit: Those 4 countries alone are over 40% of the entire worlds GDP. Even a small chance that he could start something should be enough to cause real problems.
Nope, you're the only one that has it figured out. Congratulations on being so brilliant. This thread can end now, kthxbai.
You want to put a skirt on for me now or later? You've had a wet little pussy for hating on me for quite a while now without proving anything I say wrong. If anyone here is looking silly it is you with your personal attacks and lack of substantial info to debate with.
Back on topic. I knew S. Korea didn't pay for their security entirely. So my original point still stands. But I appreciate the input jrs100000. It's not my job to care how highly taxed the people are. If the US troops completely pulled out they would be taxed even higher. My concern is only for how highly taxed the American people already are.
I think it was the way that you, or the originator of that image, made it look like every single U.S. serviceman is stealing from every american. Which is, with all due respect, a very juvenile way to put it.
You cannot blame people for taking an available job, but you can blame the people who make the job available with your money.
Although North Korea has a decently powerful army, its navy and air force aren't nearly to level where they could be called a super power. So their imperial ambitions are limited to ground combat. And that means either China or South Korea, South Korea being the "softer" of the two targets. The only possible outcomes are a military conflict with South Korea, or for North Korea to abandon its dreams of expansion.
What are you expecting them to pay for? The salaries of all the soldiers? Vehicles and equipment? I cant imagine they would be very happy about that since the US can and does pull resources out of Korea to support other efforts whenever its convenient.
In any case, I certainly wouldnt say that they qualify as welfare queens.
Nothing about that statement suggests North Korea are "declaring war". They simply said they are prepared for war.
NORTH KOREA drove tensions when SOUTH KOREA accused them. Who wrote that?? A drove tension when B accused him... what?? seriously, talk about objectivism...
I´ve seen pictures of the torpedo. that thing was all rusty. It was under the water maybe since the wwII. and the "north korean" sign on it? seriously, that was written in ink? Looked like "hey, let´s write something on it. make it look North Korean, ok? Not Chinese!! Chinese are too big and they´ve got weapons. Today it´s North Korea."
I mean, if I wanted a war, I´d attack them directly. If I didn´t, the torpedo would be spotless. And first news were the there were no holes in the ship or anything and that the torpedo was "contactless". Contactless. "Hey you, ship! you´re going doooown! Be a good ship and go down... don´t make me make a hole in you! Let´s do it the easy way..."
Thank god for this comment.
It really makes me wonder how can anybody say that US should attack NK. What gives anybody the right to attack other country? Seriously. Can I kill my neighbor just because he´s learning self-defense techniques? Why not - international law shuts the fuck up anytime US bombs hundreds of civilian in a meaningless war (oil is not a reason for me. you don´t have an oil? buy it. I can´t come to groceries and kill them to get things I want. and here I´m talking about food, not oil.). Maybe if I said that the tank in my car was empty and he had a full tank, that would shut the mouth to the media. And why don´t you mind that Israel has the bomb? You´re even helping them with that... Maybe there´s a list of people/nations/races/religions that can feel equal to the leaders of the world, you know.. I´d like to see it. Because obviously some countries can do anything everywhere (kill activists, use babies as a shield, put sanctions, kidnap people from their homes and torture them) and the others can´t even defend themselves from these people without being called terrorists.
My opinion would be - either everyone should be allowed to have nuclear weapons, or nobody. Those who don´t have them yet, can work on them. Why not? If the fuckers in White house had a REAL reason to be worried of any other country, believe me - there would be peace in the world. Or do you really thing that Bush would go to Iraq if they REALLY had some weapons? No way. And don´t tell me that USA is the good country that wouldn´t use it to fuck everyone´s ass in case there would be noone else with nuclear weapons, ok? Movies are one thing and reality is other.
And - I wouldn´t be surprised if any of the South Korean or American ships would sink there. Afterall, Hitler also attacked his own radio-station to blame Poland and attack them. my quess would be American - torn American flag looks a lot better in headlines to motivate people to support another bloodshed. Why would they care, right? the war is always outside USA, so why should they care about things like "reason" or "civilians"?
I think I made my point here. I know, there´s probably going to be many haters that will call me an idiot or even a terrorist. Well, being a terrorist for these people makes me only proud. Afterall, our partizans were also called "banditen" by the nazis during WWII, and now they´re proud that they were called banditen back then.
The iraq thing was a mistake imo.
If you don't think the forces attacking is in afghanistan represent a threat to the west, though, you're horribly under-educated on the subject. The conflict in afghanistan isnt against local, angry rebels or something, we're fighting militarized, funded, independent 'terrorist' organizations who've demonstrated a willingness to attack countries outside of their borders. Hell, they dont even have borders.
Additionally -- this isnt really a fair argument since it relies on so much speculation, but i just want to broach the idea: honestly, war sucks, and imperialistic war away from our borders sucks even more, but can you honestly say with confidence that our anti-red policy with korea and vietnam and our current 'anti terrorist' policy aren't for the good of the nation?
I mean there were REALLY big stumbles and i would love it if the wars had never happened and everything had turned out well, but when it came down to it america's overall strategy in the cold war was a success. The USSR collapsed without ever inflicting major harm on the west.
Also:
'America's policy regarding North Korea is bad because America's behavior (past and present) is bad' represents an ad hominem. So does 'America's policy regarding North Korea is invalid because America's policymakers have bad judgement'
Even if america had made a billion shitty military decisions, it wouldnt have anything to do with whether the current NK policy is good or bad.
Well, there are the humanitarian considerations. By all accounts, the current North Korean regime's mismanagement of its national resources is driving its citizens into starvation. They are effectively killing off their own population. It could be argued that it is their right as a sovereign nation to do just that. But its also hard not to feel a little bad for the millions of North Korean civilians being slowly starved to death. If a war did break out, it is highly unlikely that the civilians of North Korea would suffer any more than they already are. Even a swift death as collateral damage is probably less painful and agonizing than the slow misery of starvation.
Of course, the current political climate would make a US, or even a South Korean instigated conflict highly unlikely. No, if there is going to be any war, it will be one that North Korea starts. North Korea is getting desperate because they are beginning to realize that they won't be able to maintain their country as it stands much longer.
Conventional missiles burn and kill thousands of people just fine too.
And there are tons of people who rob to support their families because they cant feed their kids any other way, but it doesn't mean that making burglary illegal is the problem. We need immigration reform, badly, but the last thing we need is to make it okay for people to come into our country without immigrating. It represents a massive security and more importantly economical risk.
Do you understand how Oxidization ('rust' in this case) works?
Torpedos explode, dumbass.
As for 'contactless', sinking a ship before it knows you're there is kindof the entire ideal behind naval warfare
I'm not saying that north korea sank that ship, but if your understanding of the facts is so little that you think 'it's rusty!' and 'early reports were misleading!' is enough to invalidate the claim you shouldnt be posting about this shit.
Lastly, Junkie, i don't have to disprove you. Hell, i cant, your claims are too vacuous to attack. Demanding a refutation to assertions you havent provided any evidence for is juvenile and not going to get us anywhere.
I hate to go here but:
We attacked germany in WW2. We refused to recognize their nation's borders and invaded them, and then pushed well into borders we DID acknowledge. It takes a lot to morally justify war, but it definitely happens.
Can't really add anything else that hasn't been said already, maybe only that i think that NK is a country that will burn itself out eventually if they don't change their ways. Who will step in and pick up the pieces when they do is another story though.
Now THAT i dont care about. China and russia and the other 'eastern' powers have tons of people they need to protect and take care of too, if they economically profit from this mess instead of us more power to them.
It's only really the 'rogue state that maintains a policy of aggression toward their neighbors' part that bothers me
I also dont see how a Gulf of Tonkin style incident would be required to cause tension along the naval border either. The wiki article on the Norther Limit Line does a pretty good job of describing the problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Limit_Line
The naval border between north and south Korea is highly disputed and shots are regularly fired back and forth between vessels patrolling those waters.
Agreed. However the possibility of a western military invention due to north korean aggression is scarily plausible any day.
So what you´re saying is that it was oxidated, and that the ink written sign that was called to be proof it´s by NK just stayed there? How does oxidation work when it´s all oxidated and the ink just stays clearly visible on it? really makes me wonder. isn´t it really possible that it was really just some rusty crap and someone took a pen to make draw signs on it? Wouldn´t surprise me, you know. Vaporizing airplane parts, WMD,... and now simply a rusty piece of crap. Or do you have any physical explanation to these two too?
Yes, but a couple thousand lives at risk in Tokyo is pretty insignificant compared to the millions of Koreans that would assuredly dieing within that same hypothetical time frame.
this threat from NK happens all the time. It is likes rituals. they don't have any capability to start a war. Funny and scary thing is that media especally american conservity media outlet such as FOX push this agenda hard. GO to korean news site , chinaese news site or japan. you will find out much diffrent tone of news. World cup is more big new than this.
Even in PATAGON war senario concluded that there can not be a war becouse of unthinkable casualities that directly related to japan and china. and thoses two don;t want that happen.
you guys have to open your eyes, and do not suck into propaganda of some special interest group.
peace
Thats only what SK tells you -_-' ^^
I thought 3 years was for the KNP? I hope they didnt change it recently cause you guys had it rough.
You're right, because north korea has the weaponry and guidance systems and strategic infrastructure to launch ha precision attack on tokyo, but no western nations have anything to fall back on except carpet boming NK.
ghost-d: God dude your expert eye does not make something sharpie.
Airplane parts are light and thin metal, they do all kinds of weird shit when they HIT THE GROUND REALLY HARD.
Wmds were an intelligence mistake, those have happened too many times through history to count.
You're an amazing artist dude why do you write about this shit instead of like lecturing us on anatomy or something really useful
No, because if they launch at Japan that means they are already at war with south Korea. That means artillery pieces open up, airplanes loaded with explosives take off, commando teams start blowing up transportation and utilities, and infantry charge into minefields and machine guns, most of this taking place in the middle of one of the worlds more densely populated civilian areas.
Exactly. It's just not going to happen. The North Koreans have been singing this song for 57 years now, but they've never once followed through because it's really not up to them. A war between NK and SK would be another proxy war between the US and China, but neither super power wants that and NK hasn't got a prayer of going it alone. I'm more worried about being mauled by grizzly bears than I am the North Korean war machine.
Maybe you didn´t get my post regarding the airplane parts - I meant those wings that should have vaporized just before airplane hit pentagon and that was supposed to be the reason why the hole in pentagon wasn´t that big (and why the streetlights were juuust fine). that´s what I was mocking. and also the fact that on the single one camera file we are allowed to see isn´t any airplane. just detonation.
WMD. Well, too many people died because of this mistake (funny thing: "intelligence" and "mistake"). what if these news are also just another "mistake"? same people are telling us this crap. same media, same puppeteers (only puppets changed).
and according to art: politics is one thing, and art is another. these two shouldn´t mix here. we probably couldn´t have a beer together, but that doesn´t matter when we meet on "pimp and previews" battlefield.
But seriously the plane is pretty simple. The plane hit the ground first, and only the HUGE HEAVY PART had enough force left to PUNCH THROUGH A MASSIVE LIMESTONE WALL. I don't know if you have much limestone arcitecture around there, but i'm from indiana and everything around here is built with that shit, and it's absurdly sturdy. Even a building that WASN'T reinforced for impacts would make short work of flimsy plane wings, especially after they lost most of their speed. Have you ever crushed an aluminum can with your hand? You can make pretty short work of one without hurting yourself at all. The same thing goes at a much bigger scale for 747 wings and gigantic, sturdy, stone structures. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp
'intelligence' is notoriously imprecise and yeah it makes the name pretty cute. The same sort of a mistake sunk Imperial japan at midway -- we should count our blessings that we didn't lose half the globe and collapse as a nation shortly after that bungle.
All that said, we shouldnt trust a thing the government says, and i agree with you there. It's just i DO trust the things that physics, engineering, history, and normal lower level government employees with normal lives say.
and this is exactly why we couldn´t have a beer together. I named you about three things (1 - totally idiotic official report on why the pentagon hole isn´t that big; 2 - why there aren´t we allowed to see all the camera records from that area from that day; 3 - WMD mistake leading to thousands of civilians dead should be a reason for US intelligence to shut up and be mocked by public and other countries as soon as they come up with some new threat) and none of those you´ve disproved/clarify, yet you´re calling my opinions stupid. See? even for the beer I could give you a reason.
Also, it´s just funny to hear about the self-called toughest nation being so scared each and every day. don´t you all feel stupid when your leaders make you look like bunch of sissies? Seriously, why do you allow that? Or is it true?
Historically, small weak nations have taken over large portions of Europe multiple times. It rarely takes money and power to achieve military dominance, at least not in the short term. Just good timing and inspiration. Writing a guy off as a threat just because they're little and weak is ridiculous.
I refuted both your WMD point with 'intelligence has always sucked throughout history, where do you THINK they are?' and your plane shit with a snopes article and the most basic concepts of highschool physics. If you think the explanation of why the hole isnt that big is idiotic, you really don't have any idea how even the simplest physical concepts work. Not much mass + not much speed = not much damage. Why would the wings have ever damaged a building like the pentagon? The holes left in the flimsy glass wtc towers weren't even that big.
9/11 simply could not have been orchestrated by the bush government, because it actually happened and succeeded.
If it was so, there would be a crater in front of the bulding with the parts that "didn´t have force enough to make it to the wall" (which is really stupid, sorry to say that) and still doesn´t explain the streetlights not being touched by the wings. And it also doesn´t explain why can´t we finally see full uncut camera recordings from all the cameras around that area from that day. any idea? no? here comes your "trust". You´d rather make things up and tweak even gravitation if you´d have to just not to ask questions. why? what good can it make? believe everything you see and hear on TV, even that ALF lives on Malmac. Good lord, you can´t be serious with this. this discussion is pointless...
The bush administration wouldve forgotten the heavy Fuselage part and just thrown wings at the pentagon.
Later they would demand an expensive investigation as to why they couldn't damage the building and terrify the public
=/
but it was orchestrated nonetheless. Bush was just a frontman/PR guy used to sell the war and sell everyone on the idea of terrorism. The man was literally retarded, theres no way he himself could even conceive of such an event
guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld on the other hand are pretty intelligent men and played there part as well.
Anyway, My opinion means nothing and i cant really make a good argument, but after watching those 2 documentary videos....Holy shit.
I'm not American but that image Junkie_XL linked takes the piss. Nobody likes wars and military spending, but its there for a reason.
little bit off topic but
if you make war games this could be very good detailed source for game design
because its based on real documents just been released.
http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/
now complete with online log tab
and google map/earth marking for your convenience ...
Pardon me, but I think you're nuts.
If you are really looking for the truth, you should make theories that fit the facts, instead of bending facts to fit your theories. Oh and you shouldnt believe everything you see in a documentary either, especially controversial ones, go fact-check and see for yourself.
the truth is the official version is the real conspiracy. its amazing how repeating the same lie over and over constitutes facts to so many...think about it
Give it up. You can´t argue with these people. They´re blind. No matter how many times you ask them why the government won´t show a single camera file with airplane crashing into pentagon, they won´t answer. They´re the ones bending the facts to fit their government trusting minds (doesn´t need to much bending though... if you know what I mean). They will never question the official version because "we should trust our president" (as britney spears said with a chewing gum in her mouth).
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - they believed even this. do you think that they felt stupid when he admited that he lied? no... do you think they felt sorry for supporting wars that showed up to be just a unjust? no... and even later when the things clear up they won´t feel stupid for trusting these assholes that lead the country now. it´s messed up DNA or what...