North Korea declares "sacred war" on U.S.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100724/tts-uk-korea-north-ca02f96.html
What's up with this, guys?
It barley relates to me but it sounds pretty darn serious.
Feel free to have a discussion.
Er, if it violates any Forum rules I take full responsibility and you can take it down xD
What's up with this, guys?
It barley relates to me but it sounds pretty darn serious.
Feel free to have a discussion.
Er, if it violates any Forum rules I take full responsibility and you can take it down xD
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
But haven't the world been staring intently at north korea for a bunch of years now? I think america especially wants to put them down. At least india and th eother asian countries does
I dunno. I just know that kim jong scares me. He reminds me of a small terrier wanting to fight everything and bark at everyone so we think he's big and menacing... except this terrier has nukes.
Do nothing
or We all band together and PWN North Korea.
I bet they have spies on Polycount...I shouldn't have said that.
I'm looking at Belias. =]
Seriously tho, I'm pretty much clueless about all this aswell. I just sounded very important
I am of the opinion that North Korea will eventually do something. It could be in a few days, or next year. If you do a Google search on nuclear brinksmanship, most of the results are from April of last year - not long after setting off their second nuke. Since then they have sunk a ship full of South Korean sailors and officially ended the cease-fire and now they're threatening nuclear war again.
I read an interesting article the other day about how desperatly Castro wanted to bomb New York with Russian missiles back in 1962. Thankfully, the Russians were reasonable even at the hight of the cold war, and turned their ships around.
Super powers like us tend to want to remain super powers. We have a lot to lose. The North Koreans, like the radical communist Cubans, have nothing to lose. They are ideologues, and will wage nuclear war just to kill some of us even it it means their total annihilation.
While I must state that I'm against any war at all, it might just be for better if this solves now and "forever" in a big bang. NKs population seems to be starving (though through lack of education and possibilities don't revolt) so it might just be better for them in the longterm if this comes to an "ending with shock, rather than a shock with no ending".
You shouldn't care about spies.
I read that if we do nothing, the North Korean strategy is to use nuclear weapons as a threat to force reunification with South Korea. We all know they aren't afraid of waving that figurative nuclear gun around, so I believe it. I also believe that would start another major war in which the U.S. is involved, also the South Koreans are free people like us - they won't bow down to Kim so easily. They aren't brainwashed slaves like their kin to the north. I think not only will we fight the North Koreans to protect the South - but that even an uninterrupted Reunification would introduce instability in the North Korean government - so they are playing a losing strategy.
We know from history that rampant ideology (of any sort) is the downfall of any government. In North Korea's case, it supercharges the military strength of the country while at the same time causing them to behave in ways that arn't benificial to their own continued existance.
North Koreans are brinks-men of the highest sort, and the rest of the world is about to learn what happens when a country constantly threatens nuclear war. Other nations at first are scared, so they try to appease. Then they realize just how they've been played and they say - "No more words. Either come to the table on our terms or not. If you want war, we're ready" This is what SK and the US are saying with these off-shore military exercises.
The time for talk is over for NK. They must either put up, or shut up. I believe they will go ahead and do it this time. Better they try to launch a war against us now, than when they are fully ready.
I agree completely. We might as well end it now, legitimately, than wait for them to start the war on their terms.
I'd probably agree with you guys... in a couple of years time.
No way in hell I'm dieing for power hungery morons.
The spy thing was a joke by the way =]
You're not going to die Taylor. NK has limited nuclear capabilities. Their missiles aren't very reliable either. In fact, the only thing I'd be worried about is a draft - and depending on your personality, you can decide not to go if you're willing to sit in a prison cell.
I have a disability that will prevent me from being a soldier. (GSD) But if a real war does break out, I would try to contribute in some way. This is the last true cold war enemy - the last threat to the rest of the world. Everyone else either mellowed out or collapsed. NK's time is coming.
Ha!
Here are some good reads - enjoy
http://atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KF11Dg02.html
http://bigpeace.com/hfontova/2010/07/21/fidel-castro-predicts-nuclear-war/
Final edit - for humor
North Korea is to China
what
Israel is to the U.S.
Food for thought. We all need our rabid attack dogs...
To be honest, this is one of the reasons I wish we all lived in medieval times. Maybe it's the fantasy nerd in me but I'd fight for honor and courage and my nation if a war in those times were to happen.
Thanks for the link, Justin.
Technically the two sides are still at war, just no one has been shooting until recently and even that is disputed.
This recent round of BS started when South Korea's ship did one of three things. Ran aground, hit a really old mine or was sunk by a North Korean torpedo. Since neither of the first two paint them in a good light and the third is a stick in the eye to the north they went with it. As a response they planned "Naval games with the US" as a show of force.
The north isn't fond of being accused of something they claim they didn't do and they don't like people pointing out how tiny their military slong is, so they fly off the handle. Actually their army is pretty serious business but with the shape of their nation it would be impossible to sustain it during a protracted war... like the kind the US is fond of putting on every few decades.
It's kind of funny, Americas inability to win a war might actually be a bonus if they ever do crack open the Korean war again.
Would these people be able to find themselves in a new reality? How would they interact with South Koreans they were told to despise? Or would they leave the peninsula and move further west?
Also, what would happen to the country itself? Obviously, its in wests best interest to create a unified Korea, but would China allow having its "shield" taken back? Perhaps partitioning the country would please Chinese government enough to make them stop their oil exports (that alone would finish North Korea in a matter of months, if not weeks); but would that be even ethic, when we know that NK refugees are often turned into slaves, or forced into prostitution?
Of course, it's just me wildly speculating; there's a high probability that nothing will happen.
@Justin:
You could say that he's feeling il
=]
Maybe thats not the best example but they sure aren't doing anything good for themselves.
=/
[ame]
- Friends Of Kim,
Half the population are living off international aid while the other 48% eat boiled mud and sticks, which is pretty disturbing.
How can they live in such restriciton.
I can't believe some comments that I read in here, I mean, really? Should we just attack them because of their own choices?
Afaik, NK's are just afraid of being attacked, like Iraq did. So, they're preparing for war, and a possible invasion by the so called "imperialists".
The hell with the NK's. they want to survive by their own, go ahead, starve to death, see if I care. Why the fuck should we attack them?
Do you attack random tramps in the street? even if they own a gun?
I don't think that's the case; it's rather their crazy leaders who want them to survive on their own. Those who are dying of starvation would sell the glorified ideology for a bowl of soup.
It might be me, but I feel that any kind of totalitarian system should be smashed as soon as it is possible. Having grown up in Eastern Europe, my youth was filled with stories first of Nazi occupation of Poland, then of Stalinist terror and other crimes of soviet regime. I might have not experienced any of it myself, but hearing the stories from people who were directly involved does make an impact on the way you perceive reality. I don't think that tyranny should be simply ignored. It's doesn't seem right to ignore it.
But I agree with the point that a direct attack is not the best solution. As I mentioned before, simply stopping Chinese oil supplies would be enough to put Korea on its knees; NK imports more than 80% of its oil from its sole ally. But then we get to the issue of convincing Chinese government to stop supporting NK. Even after the recent diplomatic conflicts between these two countries, NK's existence still lies in China's interest. Things however, will certainly get more spicy when Japan or South Korea feel threatened enough to create their own atomic bombs.
That's the Korean peninsula at night. See the yellow dots all along the top? Those are lights from town and cities in China. Now see even more yellow dots down at the bottom? Those are the cities and towns of South Korea.
And that nearly unlit band running through the middle? That's North Korea, a country so poor they can't afford to keep the lights on. The DPRK is almost entirely dependent upon foreign aid, including aid from the US and South Korea, just to keep the population from starving to death.
North Korea has been rattling their saber ever since the war ended, but it's been nearly 60 years since their military has actually taken the field. That's because they know military conflict is an unwinnable scenario. War with the south means war with the US, and that means no aid from the west. All the guns and bombs and nukes don't mean anything if your people can't eat.
North Korea can best be likened to a child that keeps misbehaving in order to get attention. Kim Jong-Il operates under the assumption that if he puffs out his chest and plays tough or portrays himself as a loose cannon, others will take him seriously and that will give him political leverage. But it's all bullshit, he has a vested interest in self-preservation.
Americans perception of threats has been seriously warped by terrorism, people treat governments like Iran and North Korea as though they are small groups of religious fanatics with no issues attacking countries that will result in their total annihilation. But the actual reality of it is that these are politicians with agendas.
I watched all 53 minutes of that first youtube video and you can really see just how much they have gotten their way just because of some propaganda BS.
I kinda laughed at the INTENSE mourning of the Father of Kim Jong Il.
Gotta love Kim and NK.
As far as the sinking: they know full well that they sunk the south Korean ship. The north Korean Northern Limit Line (Naval version of the DMZ) is not the same as the one that south Korea and the US recognize. Because of this there are fairly regular firefights and the occasional sinking in that area.
The only surprising part is that north Korea is denying responsibility since this is one of the few times it wasnt their ship sunk.
nationality is getting old, just like medieval kind of thinking.
i ve been waiting for the day when world doesn't need country to country borders. maybe it wont happen in my lifetime but whatever ...
US troops shouldn't be there...but not for reasons the douchebags in the "Friends of Kim" documentary want. I am simply sick of using our own blood and treasure to provide nanny-protection for others. Unless a country is the 51st state of the US...I don't want to be there. We can't afford it. The money should stay within the US instead of being the world's policeman.
There are three realities here. 1. It is impossible to take care of everybody. 2. South Korea has a GDP 20x the size of North Korea. They can afford to protect themselves just fine. 3. The US is going broke and we simply can't afford this crap anymore.
Let S. Korea start their own huge national debt for once. South Korea currently relies on the US military like a Chicago mother relies on the welfare system. Pick yourself up and take care of yourself.
This thread gives me a reason to post this pic...
I agree that they are wasting a crap load of money on NK douchebags tho
Just for the record, south Korea does pay the US the costs of deploying troops in their country and they do suffer under high taxes, high national debt, and universal conscription in order to fund the military.
In addition, south Korea one of the worlds largest economies. The destruction of this economy (even in a war that south Korea eventually won) would do great damage to the US and the rest of the world.
I can't even begin to tell you how offensive that picture is Junkie. Don't be one of these idiots that generalizes and throws the entire United States military into one common misconception. Grow the fuck up.
I didn't make the pic btw...found on 4chan or something. To be honest we really only need the marines in case Canada gets fussy. The 1 trillion we spend per year on the military is such a money sink.
I could turn this into a huge thread informing people on how the US gets ourselves into trouble thanks to all the CIA "cloak and dagger" operations that have been going on since the mid 50's...but polycount is not our blog and this will get locked.
I'd love to see info that South Korea entirely pays back the US though...
Yeah the dude eating the hot dog is pretty funny...sorry I just come from a military family (granted, ones that served when the military meant more than it does now) so I tend to get a tad defensive.
If you cut NK off, the people are the ones who are going to pay.
If you attack, because the people have been brainwashed so much, it will be a long gruesome war unless you could live with nuking the whole thing. In that case, it's also the people who are going to pay.
If you try to wait it out, more innocent people will starve to death or go into camps for thinking freely, where they are subjected to god-knows-what.
I am of course not being serious. This seriously is kind of terrible, the way NK is right now means that no one wins nomatter what is done
Nuking them is really out of the question. Beyond the usual problems, they also happen to be right on the border of China and the fallout could cause vast damage to Japan, south Korea, India and the rest of Asia. Plus, the bulk of their military is so close to the border and dug in so deep that there isnt much way to drop H-bombs on them without tearing up Seoul.
Conventional war is also out of the question. Even in the case of a surprise attack followed by swift victory, south Korea is devastated by artillery, Tokyo has missiles lobbed their way (maybe tipped with nukes). Oh yea, and once again China would be very unhappy about this war right on their border.
Best case, Kim dies and his generals, realizing they can not compete militarily or economically, opt for peaceful reunification under the south Korean government. This is not a particularly attractive option.
Imagine for a moment that whatever country you live in has a nearly identical shadow country next to it: The only difference is that its populated by people from 100 years in the past. They have never used a computer, driven a car, had electric lights or running water in their houses, shopped at a grocery store, talked on a telephone, watched TV etc. They have an archaic accent, outdated social values, and a deeply ingrained hatred of your country's modern government. They are also destitute and badly traumatized by a lifetime of hardship and abuse. One more thing, they are almost all military veterans and have huge stockpiles of weapons and ammunition stashed all over the place.
The worst part is, that if it comes to war, this might very quickly become the decision made. Just like it did with japan in 1945, because the fight over every single inch were so bitterly hellish and brutal.
You do realize that they have been this way since the 50'ies, right? Also, any country that has relations with the far east recognizes them as complete fecking psychos.
This truely is stranger than fiction.
But this is the problem and the point I was trying to make in my last post. The north Korean people are not at all ready to integrate into the modern world in any capacity. The defectors that have attempted to join south Korean society have almost universally had great difficulties overcoming the cultural and technological differences between the two countries, and defectors tend to be better educated that average and motivated enough to risk their lives in order to join the modern world.
The average north Koreans skill sets include plowing rice paddies by hand, food scavenging, and 9 years of mandatory military training. That doesnt exactly make for a useful work force.
I'm very anti war but junkie you're horribly misinformed/undereducated about this shit quit posting silly nonsense polycount is usually a smart community
with as many problems going on right now, why are Americans always more concerned with the problems of others than of their own? take care of your troops, take care of the homeless vets, take care of your own children, make sure there are jobs in your country, secure your borders from the flood of illegals, focus on electing and supporting officials that are not going to sell you out and fight for the peoples rights etc. All those things should be more of a priority over forcing democracy in whatever little corner in the world you're told to go to I would think.
I realize the thread is about NK specifically but what I'm trying to get at here is the bigger picture. It came out Vietnam was a sham and the gulf of tonkin incident was a lie designed to get America into that war. The excuse for Afghanistan was because of 9/11 but then that quickly changed to the taliban is evil and theyre abusing women and such. Then you had Iraq, and the excuse for that was WMD's which again turned out to be bologny. I mean give me a break, is no one else catching on?
I don't really get how that is a big issue, its only big because people use it as a hot topic republican vs democrat issue. Racial profiling and putting up a wall isn't going to solve or fix anything, if people want to escape their shitty country and have a better life here, then allow them to do it as long as they can support their families. There was a local family (here in Kansas, the middle of the USA) the parents got deported and the kid were born here so they are legal, the parents lived here for 15+ years, payed taxes, raised a family, had a nice house, weren't using any government support. The parents had to fight to get citizenship and the kids stayed here and got some support from friends and family.
A bigger issue is the problems in Mexico like drugs, gangs, and violence that are leaking over into the USA. One of the ideas is to legalize cannabis and the Mexican gangs will lose a hung chunk of their funding, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.