Time Management (Self learners + College students only)
polycounter lvl 14
Greetings pcers;
I have been learning off the DT for some time now and I have another month to spare to learn this summer. DT tutorials are really intense and I am starting to become addicted to them.
Now, I have my bachelors starting in September that leaves 2 choices. Either buy an annual subscription and learn whenever I have time, Or, take massive notes and learn off of them until september (which I usually do when I am practicing while watching the tutorials)
So the question to you is, do you have any online tutorial annually subscribed while you do your bachelors or masters or whatever you do at college/Univ.
If so, how do you manage it?
I have been learning off the DT for some time now and I have another month to spare to learn this summer. DT tutorials are really intense and I am starting to become addicted to them.
Now, I have my bachelors starting in September that leaves 2 choices. Either buy an annual subscription and learn whenever I have time, Or, take massive notes and learn off of them until september (which I usually do when I am practicing while watching the tutorials)
So the question to you is, do you have any online tutorial annually subscribed while you do your bachelors or masters or whatever you do at college/Univ.
If so, how do you manage it?
Replies
I'm a big big fan of DT and their training kits. Their tutorials are always fantastic for beginners, I used them exclusively to learn Max and Maya after using C4D exclusively for my job. After following a few of their training series I felt I had a good working knowledge of the software and I'll still recommend them as the go-to place for learning software.
However, their 'hand-holding' learning approach where you literally see how to do every last bit is both a good point and a bad point. It's great for beginners because one thing I found when I was learning that really put me off some tutorials is that they tend to be 2x 4x speed etc and they'll often leave big gaps in the workflow and say things like 'ok I'm gonna continue shaping this out and we'll come back later' and you tend to get lost. DT don't do this and it's almost impossible to get stuck because you can copy the instructor exactly at every step of the way.
The bad point of this, and one I found out the hard way is that when you come to do your own stuff, it's very easy to get stuck and overwhelmed.
This is when the 'next stage' of learning comes into play in my opinion and where I'm at right now.
Just start work on your own projects and refer to tutorials or assistance on here as and when you get stuck. That way you are developing your own skills, on your own projects and you're almost getting tailored training to suit your workflow.
Oftentimes I'd be under the impression I had a great knowledge of Max and Maya and could just go ahead and create anything because I'd completed many of the DT courses, but when it comes down to doing it, and you don't have the instructor there it's very easy to get stuck.
This is where more advanced tutorials are great, because you can 'freestyle' a little bit and the old 'learn by doing' mentality comes into play. The Gnomon DVD's for example are not so great for complete beginners, but a real help once you have a handle on doing some of your own work because just watching a timelapse of someones work is often a great insight when you have the skills to put it into practice on your own.
Also, if you're going to be at school / uni, (assuming you're doing a game related course) then you're gonna be getting related education while in class, so it seems kinda silly to then use your own time to follow more tutorials, I mean why even go to school if you're just gonna learn at home as well?
So I'd suggest starting your own projects, then jump on here or look for a tutorial when you need it.
I strongly recommend any learners, or even proffessionals to get over there and do the same. The Judges choose the winners very fairly. So experts arent always the winners. Novices have just as much chance as long as they can present a good ideas well.
Well....its Bachelors in Software engineering (since now is the best time for me to return to college and complete what my initial goal is) How it is related to game dev? The Programming part and also since my college is a Microsoft NUT they do have an elective of game development which is so not related to the game development style we have here, that does not involve any programming.
Since Game development is 50% creativity and 50% logical proofs (programming + math) according to every book that I've read with the title of "introduction to game programming..." So I figured I'd start both learning 3d modeling and further 3d essentials, and practice programming. It shouldnt really bother me to practice 3d stuff while moving forth and practice programming. Which I usually do in my daily routine (18 hours per day / 6 days or a week if I am up to it) But the college life as I had before was really hard enough to even have atleast 2 hours spare to play warcraft DOTA.
If you are not taking notes or understanding the tutorials and its details thoroughly. Chances are as soon as you take your eyes off of the DT tutorials and start your own work. You will get lost easily. To prevent from such drawbacks is the reason I take notes and understand the concept thoroughly before moving on to another concept. If I fail to understand it (a reply button is one click away).
Anyways, So it isnt recommended nor suggested to have support of the DT or DT like tutorials sites while you are in college. Even if it is partially related to your career?
Well it certainly wouldn't hurt. If you can afford the time and money to invest into it while attending school, I say go for it.
It wouldnt hurt to spend on it, but it would hurt to spend on it and not be able to learn from it. If you know what I mean.
I dont know how people do it while attending college for something else.
Used college for its required structured/deadlined tasks. Lucky to have teachers working in the industry at the same time they were teaching to bounce ideas/mentor from. Made life long friendships with people/other artists who pushed me to be better.
Used Polycount to self improve everything that I couldn't get in college. Get a more broad range of crits from industry professionals, learn tips and tricks I would never get in college.
I personally would have never wanted/never would go the self taught route. But thats just me. College was a huge part of my life and I wouldn't trade that to save a few thousand bucks. Although I do wish college wasnt so expensive : /
For starters theres no such thing as too much practice, but the biggest reason is you are not going to get everything you need to know about games art from any College or University course, and with alot of the courses if you rely only on the syllabus you are going to come out woefully underprepared. Its a sad fact that unless you have a bunch of ex industry Tutors, a range incredibly focused and well planned modules, All your best learning will get done in your own time. Oh and don't forget, your notexactly getting one on one tutoring when you have 50 coursemates and your tutor is froma different department.
(so why take the course? I wouldn't trade my university experience and the friends I've made for anything, Its 4 years of learning instead of fitting practice around work hours, you will learn alot and having a degree can open many doors.)
I'm not disagreeing, going to college to study whatever may or may not be a good idea, it's not my place to decide whether that is the right route for others.
I'm just suggesting that while a lot of time is gonna need to be spent 'extra-curricular' in my opinion you will learn a damn sight more working on your own projects than following Digital Tutorials. The OP asked how to schedule time around college and DT tuts sprcifically.
From my personal experience I have learned far more spending a week on my own project than months of following DT tutorials. Not only did I learn more, I had stuff of my own that could go in my portfolio, something that is very important and something that you wouldn't get from following tuts.
So to break down what I said into a simple, easy to digest tl;dr version:
'Less tootz moar workzz'
So far I have done the basic essentials of it; Modeling rendering texturing basic animation. Yet there are further topics that cant be learned in a very short amount of time.
Espacially when you know that you are going to be very short on your learning resources if you end your subscription of DT.
Now I do agree with you that writing your own ideas on piece of papers and working on them (AKA working on projects) with a due date set, is a good practice, but that wasnt the answer to the question I asked.
A little bit 'naughty' I guess but it's better than straight pirating it off of the web.
Well, what do you want? Someone to say 'oh, I'm studying the exact same subject as you in college, I too have a DT sub and I spend x hours a day from x till x after my coursework using my subscription.'?
Tom's right - you learn more working on your own projects. Yes, there are aspects of the applications we use that require tutorials (at first), but I doubt whether anyone here knows every single button, option and minute detail of their application of choice. We could theoretically spend all day, every day doing tutorials and still not know everything, given the potential complexities of the software.
Why not start a project, and use tutorials to plug the gaps as and when you encounter a situation where you're not entirely sure of the best approach?
Either make a decision to get out of the tutorial comfort zone and start learning through your own mistakes and experiences, or keep doing tutorials and start managing your time yourself. If you can't figure that out, I'd say whether or not to bother with a DT subscription is the least of your worries.
hahahahaha! good one.
But seriously though I hope I get enough understand to start my project(s) and all. I have this month and next month. and half of september to do it all I believe.
No I wasnt expecting anyone to side with me and tell me that "oh I am going through the same path as you and I've taken this approach!!!" I was just expecting an opinion on, should one stick to an online tutorial website while attending college learning a different career or not.
as for "I should start working on my own ideas? for good practice" I know that I have to start that very soon.
I am just scared that I am running out of time in terms of learning what I need to learn thoroughly.
This is what I don't get. Game art is demanding enough in terms of the skills required and the commitment and dedication necessary to develop - so I'm wondering why you're bothering to learn if you're already committed to another course of full-time study? Or why you're studying something else if you want to learn to be a game artist?
The way you've worded it, it does seem like you genuinely want to progress in your 3D education, so I'm presuming that the full-time course is some kind of a back-up plan? Or something more 'sensible' so mom and dad are happy?
Really, considering the standard of work that artists that already have experience and are still struggling to find work have in their portfolios, you've got to eat, sleep and breathe game art to make it. Given the breadth of skills required to make art that's good enough to land a gig, I can't even imagine trying to study something else simultaneously and expecting to do well.
If you want it, go for it but don't half-ass it. If you want to bank on the course as the 'safer' option, then don't sweat the subscription and just do it as a hobby, because honestly, I can't see you turning out the same standard of work as someone whose sole goal is to have an awesome portfolio if you're already studying a completely different field. But hey, maybe you can, I don't know. Either way, doesn't make a whole let of sense to me.
I know I've taken this slightly off-topic, so take what you want from it, I guess.
Thanks for the input.
It doesn't matter if you use tutorials or not. What matters is you practice. Period. Practice with tutorials, practice on your own, practice in class; whatever. The specifics are unimportant, especially if you're not job hunting.
Stick with the subscription if you like the tuts and feel you have the time. Ditch them if you don't. There's no magic "college + subscription = good/bad" rule. That doesn't even make any sense.
I guess I'll learn whatever I can until my college starts and than practice and PC learn from there.
The part that doesnt make any sense to you is the learning part. Its not about "one should keep watching tutorials if he likes and have time for them, and ditch them if he doesnt." Its about how much you can learn from those tutorial while you do your professional not so related studies, because one can watch tuts entire day and still become completely lost when it comes to doing a simple project. Indeed there isnt any magic to a good outcome or a bad outcome since this part of the learning is completely dependent on you sir. It has nothing to do with the online tuts.
Reason why it doesnt make any sense to you guys is because you went off track and started talking about things that arent even related to the core subject. The same reason why I thought 10 times before creating a thread about it and was afread of this to happen (ofcourse I searched before I did that)
What part of (Time Management Self learners + college students only) didnt you understand? And by college students not necessary mean that I am talking about College students that are doing CG, I was just thinking generally.
this wasnt another "Should I subscribe to some streaming video site to learn 3d stoff or go to a legit college for it" thread
EDIT: Bottom line, I know what I have to do in terms of how to learn things and start practicing. What I am confused about is how will I manage to keep up with both CG learning (not the website) and the software engineering, when my college start.
You seem like you have your mind made up and you're not gonna be happy with any reply unless it matches your decision.
So, in short; do whatever the hell you like.
"You failed to understand my thread entirely. I wasnt asking around to see if their answer matches to mine nor I was thinking that it was a dumb question. Because it isnt, just because you think it is.
Bottom line, please kindly refrain from throwing shit in my thread if you dont have anything better to say.
I am looking for an answer, because I dont have one, or I am extremely confused about it"
Look Nitewalkr, people are only trying to help you. You've got some bloody good advice here off of a lot of different people. It's easy to look through the responses and garner a good idea of what you should do. As well as that, it's completely up to you. If you need people to determine your schedule and how to manage your time then maybe this isn't the industry for you because time management is a skill you're gonna need regardless of what industry you're in. At least, all the jobs I've ever worked both art related and non, I've had to manage my time to get the job at hand done. I didn't go to the next guy and be like 'oh erm hey, here's my tasks, how should I manage my time'.
Because my patience with you just ran out at the PM you sent me, here's some brutal advice.
Just do some of your OWN fucking work, post it on here, get some crit and you WILL learn. You don't need to spend 15 years learning software, even if it is XSI, which isn't 'harder to learn than Max or Maya' like you think it is, all software has it's own learning curve. If you can make a primitive cube in XSI, then go make a crate, texture it as best you can. If you can join two cylinders together, then make a drainpipe. Then what're you gonne do? Follow another hundred tutorials because you need to learn Photoshop to texture? Just get stuck in man, I've said it before, you've racked up over 1000 posts in a year or so and you haven't posted any work in P&P.
I refuse to converse with you over PM, and anything you send me will just get published here so either listen to some of the advice you're getting here or go figure it out on your own.
if you dont like to have a pvt conversation and have your mind set straight, calmly, peacefully, and respectfully, and wish to create a drama in one of my threads to turn a legit thread to a legit thread turned in to shit where no one would watch your show, than its your problem.
I thank you for your input. And to others who came across this thread and posted to help me out.
After reading whatever you wrote about xsi I'd say you have soo much more to learn than what you know.
anyways I'll stop here because talking to you is like talking to a nagging girlfriend.
With kind regards
Ease
Thank you all for your inputs.
EDIT: Oh about my work and my posts going over 1000 counts in a year, its none of your business, this community is a social community, where people would adjust at first and than start showing their work.
You dont see me or anyone asking you for your work over and over now do you. I'll post when I have something to show, and when I know that I have a project GOOD ENOUGH to present because I dont like throwing pieces of craps in pimp and previews and just leave it be. Understand what I am saying?
Anyways, I dont wish to commune with you anymore than you do C22. It is best if you do not post in my threads at all. Its better if we keep it that way.
Thanks.
That looks a lot like you are asking how to manage your time to me.
I do indeed, and I will never stop learning. Although coming to that conclusion simply because I said XSI has a learning curve unique to itself, just like Max does, just like Maya does was a bit naive of you and quite frankly a pointless comment.
All I can say to you is good luck.
Yes, it says how do you manage it. It doesnt say "make my schedule for me" You gotta learn to use your brain and understand my thread before posting in from now on my good sir.
Its not my problem that finding difference in terms of what program is easier to learn and what program is not seriously offended you. Even that has nothing to do with this thread now does it.
You went off track which confused other people at first and made a simple question a joke in this thread. Seriously you and espacially you need to learn forum manners at first, secondly you need to learn to stick to the topic.
Now I will stop because I choose not to play in this drama with you.
Thank you once again for your replies and those who have posted in this thread and sticked to the topic. I appreciated your opoinion and will follow up on them.
Thanks again
I don't know if it's a language barrier or whether your are 12, or whether you are just crap at choosing the right words but what you've said right there is a little offensive.
I know when to use my brain, I know how to use it, and I know that it shouldn't be used for attempting to post anything useful in any of your threads ever again. And I hope for everyone else's sake on PC, they come to the same conclusion.
And with that, good sir; I'm out.
:poly122:
Throw yourself into whatever your doing 200%. Make sure that whatever you're doing is worth while. Nothing ever really works out that well if you run in 7 directions at once. If something is working counter to your end goal then it needs to be sidelined or changed so it suits your overall goal.
It's your life, live it. If that means letting your parents down to chase a dream I say go for it. Just make sure that's where you want to go and you have the means to get there. The people who make it in, always find a way and its not always the same path their parents took or even other peers will take.
Don't let someone else define "successful" for you. A lot of people have a crazy idea that blowing an insane amount of money on higher education is the path to the good life, in some careers it is, but in others it can be an undue burden that haunts your bank account for years. I've meet a lot of people that spent 4 years pissing their life away, learning junk they forget the next week, wracking up a lot of debt only to emerge on the other side knowing that they want to take their life in another direction. If that's what it takes for you to figure it out... so be it I guess. But honestly I really see that as an extremely blinded case.
With that said, there can be some major advantages to higher education IF what it is teaching matches your goals. Whichever route you take make sure its what you want to do, and throw yourself into it fully. Trying to spread yourself thin will only fuck things up.
/my2cents
Above all man, just relax. If a thread isn't going the way you want or someone is giving you advice you don't like you can either ignore them or not take it. Sending hostile PMs is just a means of perpetuating a conflict, not a means of diffusing it.
i dont think its a good idea arguing with Nitewalkr about anything,
as i see it he simply doesnt like you.
Thank you everyone.
as someone who was in your situation 4 years ago (wannabe 3d artist going into computer science) I said to myself that I would practice 3d during school and hopefully when i got out i could pick whichever path i chose. it's important to mention that i wasn't a 3d beginner at the time (been doing it for fun since I was 14), I could produce ok work in my eyes, but was never satisfied with it. One of the main reasons i went to school for compsci was because I thought i would never be as good enough as some of the people i see posting on these boards (but i still lurk them to see all the kickass art)
needles to say when I got into school I was completely engrossed in the programming side (because i wanted to learn) and instead of "self-studying" 3d art i learned programming and pretty much dropped my art aspirations, I didn't have time for both. Anyway i probably know more about my field then anyone in my class and I'm currently graduated and have a very good, fun and high paying job.
spend your time where it is important. If you want to be a 3d artist then drop programming and learn that full time. If you want to be a programmer then drop art and learn that full time.
Going to school does not guarantee that you will learn whatever it is they teach. I know people who have graduated with a computer science degree that can barely program. Your education is what you make of it.